I understand why MMC and NRS upset me, and an opinion about social consensus

[toast]

So there's two discussions: 1) 10% is arbitrary and too much, vs 10% became not-arbitrary once invictus made their commitment to it; and 2) PTS/AGS holder attention is valuable because of the rewards that come with perceived willingness to be part of the community, vs it is only valuable because it gives financial stake in the project

[toast]

But 1% isnt honoring the agreement. Also I don't believe anyone will be interested in these coins as they require mining and do not have any mechanism for price stability. Given that people still believe bitshares to be a scam because of invictus' association with FreeTrade and MMC, I don't believe that MMC should have its own subforum either.

Well technically neither had to honor anything because the agreement really is only tied to the SCSL. 10% each is an arbitrary number, but that's the number which was set in stone when the social consensus was first proposed.
So yes, they both honored PTS/AGS, but neither played along with the Social Consensus.  That's fine, it's just a statement that says, "we don't value PTS/AGS holders enough to want a fast-track to their good side".

[clout]

But 1% isnt honoring the agreement. Also I don't believe anyone will be interested in these coins as they require mining and do not have any mechanism for price stability. Given that people still believe bitshares to be a scam because of invictus' association with FreeTrade and MMC, I don't believe that MMC should have its own subforum either.

[toast]

Don't understand why MMC got their on sub forum whereas NRS is moved to OFF- topic, cause when i am right, then both didn't honor our social contract! Or did i miss something?
Pls correct me if i'm totally wrong...

MMC honored pts

So did NRS, both were 1% IIRC

[clout]

Don't understand why MMC got their on sub forum whereas NRS is moved to OFF- topic, cause when i am right, then both didn't honor our social contract! Or did i miss something?
Pls correct me if i'm totally wrong...

MMC honored pts

[barwizi]

Could you nice folks all stop arguing? Its not good for us kids to see the elders fighting.

no no , we aren't fighting. This is how we communicate.

[sumantso]

Could you nice folks all stop arguing? Its not good for us kids to see the elders fighting.

[cass]

Don't understand why MMC got their on sub forum whereas NRS is moved to OFF- topic, cause when i am right, then both didn't honor our social contract! Or did i miss something?
Pls correct me if i'm totally wrong...

[barwizi]

toast, lets be honest. you haven't held a single iota of interest. What has changed....? Maybe the sudden jumps in traded volumes? Or was someone kind enough to show you the huge potential having a few NRS puts in your hands?

Haha... no, it was the discussion in the other threads. And who says I haven't secretly purchased NRS already? This whole thing is about public support.

yes, btw....you are not saying much about MMC. seems to me that something else is driving you.

Could be that the entire MMC board is on ignore, whereas NRS is in boards I don't have ignored.

You stated your disinterest clearly...what more do you want from me?

Nothing, believe it or not this thread is aimed at everyone outside of NRS and MMC.

Keep buying. Next few weeks are going to be eventful.

[toast]

toast, lets be honest. you haven't held a single iota of interest. What has changed....? Maybe the sudden jumps in traded volumes? Or was someone kind enough to show you the huge potential having a few NRS puts in your hands?

Haha... no, it was the discussion in the other threads. And who says I haven't secretly purchased NRS already? This whole thing is about public support.

yes, btw....you are not saying much about MMC. seems to me that something else is driving you.

Could be that the entire MMC board is on ignore, whereas NRS is in boards I don't have ignored.

You stated your disinterest clearly...what more do you want from me?

Nothing, believe it or not this thread is aimed at everyone outside of NRS and MMC.

[barwizi]

In this case it's you saying that the % i am giving you is worthless. If you feel that it is worthless, then why are you even bothered?

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere!
Because the PTS/AGS social contract has the potential to be a very powerful force and by taking extreme stances like this I am nurturing it.

You say, "I will not choose to participate in this agreement, because I do not need your end of the agreement". That is perfectly acceptable, especially given the support you have that you alluded to. You do not need my support, you do not need good vibes among PTS holders, you do not need to be part of the PTS/AGS family. Awesome! Sounds like you guys are gonna do just fine then.

toast, lets be honest. you haven't held a single iota of interest. What has changed....? Maybe the sudden jumps in traded volumes? Or was someone kind enough to show you the huge potential having a few NRS puts in your hands?

yes, btw....you are not saying much about MMC. seems to me that something else is driving you.

You stated your disinterest clearly...what more do you want from me?

[toast]

In this case it's you saying that the % i am giving you is worthless. If you feel that it is worthless, then why are you even bothered?

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere!
Because the PTS/AGS social contract has the potential to be a very powerful force and by taking extreme stances like this I am nurturing it.

You say, "I will not choose to participate in this agreement, because I do not need your end of the agreement". That is perfectly acceptable, especially given the support you have that you alluded to. You do not need my support, you do not need good vibes among PTS holders, you do not need to be part of the PTS/AGS family. Awesome! Sounds like you guys are gonna do just fine then.

[barwizi]

toast. Invictus has tried to impose a "tax". Every interested person PTS holder or not will tell you that i like engaging and working with people. Have you shown intrest inmy project at all? NO!!! but you still want me to line your pockets? LOL.

 

As a result I for one am not interested in this project, but I wish you guys luck!

Again you have things in the wrong order. I wrote that IN RESPONSE TO the fact that you wouldn't honor AGS/PTS. Please quote my entire post!

"Line my pockets"? I'd have a tiny fraction of NRS still. Less than 0.001%.

I just wouldn't feel like you are telling me I am worthless.

In this case it's you saying that the % i am giving you is worthless. If you feel that it is worthless, then why are you even bothered?

[toast]

Without censorship:

No 10% to AGS/PTS? Your reasons for not doing this are bad IMO, it seems like you're missing the whole points of protoshares.

As a result I for one am not interested in this project, but I wish you guys luck!

[toast]

toast. Invictus has tried to impose a "tax". Every interested person PTS holder or not will tell you that i like engaging and working with people. Have you shown intrest inmy project at all? NO!!! but you still want me to line your pockets? LOL.

 

As a result I for one am not interested in this project, but I wish you guys luck!

Again you have things in the wrong order. I wrote that IN RESPONSE TO the fact that you wouldn't honor AGS/PTS. Please quote my entire post!

"Line my pockets"? I'd have a tiny fraction of NRS still. Less than 0.001%.

I just wouldn't feel like you are telling me I am worthless.

[barwizi]

We love you still.

But barwizi, my sense of self-worth comes from my beliefs about other people's beliefs about my value to them! =)

Were those DAC builders perhaps not owning AGS/PTS and feeling excluded themselves?.. just a guess but perhaps to be expected that those who are part of this culture will more likely honor it. I'm too new to know much of MMC and NRS but also then wonder I'm less likely to engage with those that do choose to act outside the AGS/PTS social consensus. If you honor that, then you immediately have an engaged audience; and if you don't, then it's more of a gamble.

Another great point in favor of a micro-bounty campaign!

toast. Invictus has tried to impose a "tax". Every interested person PTS holder or not will tell you that i like engaging and working with people. Have you shown intrest inmy project at all? NO!!! but you still want me to line your pockets? LOL.

 

As a result I for one am not interested in this project, but I wish you guys luck!

[toast]

We love you still.

But barwizi, my sense of self-worth comes from my beliefs about other people's beliefs about my value to them! =)

Were those DAC builders perhaps not owning AGS/PTS and feeling excluded themselves?.. just a guess but perhaps to be expected that those who are part of this culture will more likely honor it. I'm too new to know much of MMC and NRS but also then wonder I'm less likely to engage with those that do choose to act outside the AGS/PTS social consensus. If you honor that, then you immediately have an engaged audience; and if you don't, then it's more of a gamble.

Another great point in favor of a micro-bounty campaign!

[davidpbrown]

Were those DAC builders perhaps not owning AGS/PTS and feeling excluded themselves?.. just a guess but perhaps to be expected that those who are part of this culture will more likely honor it. I'm too new to know much of MMC and NRS but also then wonder I'm less likely to engage with those that do choose to act outside the AGS/PTS social consensus. If you honor that, then you immediately have an engaged audience; and if you don't, then it's more of a gamble.

[barwizi]

For a little while I couldn't understand why I was so unhappy about DAC builders who didn't want to honor the social contract, because the point is that they're free to try whatever you like and see what works.
I understand that technically the AGS/PTS social consensus is founded in the SCSL and so if you didn't use code there's no reason you have to honor it.

But AGS/PTS also represents your interest in *me*. By not honoring PTS/AGS properly and saying "I don't see the value of honoring PTS/AGS properly", you're saying "I don't see the value of working with *you personally*, Toast". That hurts my feelings! When I think of your DAC, I feel bad without even having examined what you are doing!

I think you will see this sentiment in others throughout the forum, but it would be expressed like "but look at all these advantages! community! network!". This isn't communicating the right message.

So, here is a safe space for whoever feels this way to say:

Tell me to my face: "Your attention is not worth having on my project."

We love you still.

[toast]

For a little while I couldn't understand why I was so unhappy about DAC builders who didn't want to honor the social contract, because the point is that they're free to try whatever you like and see what works.
I understand that technically the AGS/PTS social consensus is founded in the SCSL and so if you didn't use code there's no reason you have to honor it.

But AGS/PTS also represents your interest in *me*. By not honoring PTS/AGS properly and saying "I don't see the value of honoring PTS/AGS properly", you're saying "I don't see the value of working with *you personally*, Toast". That hurts my feelings! When I think of your DAC, I feel bad without even having examined what you are doing!

I think you will see this sentiment in others throughout the forum, but it would be expressed like "but look at all these advantages! community! network!". This isn't communicating the right message.

So, here is a safe space for whoever feels this way to say:

Tell me to my face: "Your attention is not worth having on my project."