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Offline rysgc

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Global watchmen DAC
« on: March 15, 2014, 03:43:13 PM »

You've seen it often before '$x reward for the tip which leads to solve case y'. Theses 'bounties' are set by your local authorities and only for cases on which they think are the most important, of course there are many more cases which can benefit from this reward system and I think it fits perfectly for a DAC. I could see such system especially usefull in the field of hacks, child abuse, stolen coins, scams and other dark things which are happending on the internet.

How does it work?
First of all a police report should be obtained or make your case verifyable in other ways (news reports, server logs etc) . Then a 'crowd sourcing' campaign can be started to raise money from the shareholders who are willing to solve this case. Now at this point everyone can help solve this case depending on your specific skills and submit their tips to the system. All tips are being collected and are visibile to anyone. The shareholders can vote on which tip(s) have led
to solve it and the 'detectives' get paid out based on the % of their contribution leading to solve it. A name, address and phone number obviously leads to a larger payout then an IP address. For each case a clear goal should be stated by the submitter (Get a name, get a country, etc).

What does it solve?
It helps solve all cases which are not being picked up by the police, do not have the right priority according to them or are still unsolved after an x amount of time. You can then turn to our system and ask for help because crime should be punished sooner or later.

Who can make use of it?
White hat hackers, internet dectives and amateurs with time on their hands and love to dig into things. Of course anyone can submit a case regarding of their
background and skills. I could even see a time when official authorities will turn to this system for unsolved cold cases.

How shareholders will get paid?
Unsolved cases will return to the share holders proportionally to their all-time contribution and they have a take on transaction fees. Of course we could also let the case submitter pay for the case so there's more profit or have the case submitter put up an upfront-bounty which will become avaible if the case is solved. There are many ways to make this profitable really.

Why it should be build?
To help people who have been a victim of any crime and yet another great way of showing what a DAC can do for our community.


« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 06:19:07 PM by GodsCreation »
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Offline toast

Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2014, 06:21:59 PM »
Have you read this?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3488.0

Quote
So here's the litmus test: Which social dillemma is your DAC addressing, and which payoff matrix is flipped as a result of adding the blockchain?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline rysgc

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2014, 06:29:24 PM »
Yes I have but help me out on why this can't be classified as a DAC.   
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Offline JA

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2014, 06:42:34 PM »
Yes I have but help me out on why this can't be classified as a DAC.
I think because it is not profitable enough

Offline toast

Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2014, 06:47:32 PM »
Yes I have but help me out on why this can't be classified as a DAC.   

Well I don't know for sure because I haven't thought through the possibilities, but my thinking is that you could just as easily make it a centralized website and it would accomplish exactly the same thing (though possibly it would have to use Tor to avoid regulation). You aren't utilizing any emergent network behavior as far as I can tell.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline rysgc

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2014, 06:48:40 PM »
Yes I have but help me out on why this can't be classified as a DAC.
I think because it is not profitable enough
That's true, it's not a huge profit machine. The social dilemma part I find hard to grasp when it's concerning DAC's. I think this is rather similar to the proposed  insurance DAC.
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Offline toast

Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 06:51:05 PM »
Ah ok I see, if you have to make someone make a decision for whether something qualifies for a bounty payout or not, and that person's role requires lots of trust, then putting it on a DAC would make it so that person could be decided by the market.

Seems like quite a few ideas would be derivable from a generic "market-selected decision-maker DAC" template.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline rysgc

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 06:55:46 PM »
Yes I have but help me out on why this can't be classified as a DAC.   

Well I don't know for sure because I haven't thought through the possibilities, but my thinking is that you could just as easily make it a centralized website and it would accomplish exactly the same thing (though possibly it would have to use Tor to avoid regulation). You aren't utilizing any emergent network behavior as far as I can tell.
Yes a centralized version could be possible , but that could be said about most DAC's. It's easier and faster to setup and more maintainable. But by decentralizing it you take away any doubts about selfish interests, regulation and security of your data. All the action's in this proposed DAC will be the result of atype of network voting. Maybe I am totally missing the point as well so maybe another staff member could shed a light on this so I can rethink this.
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Offline toast

Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 07:05:17 PM »
Aww man I don't mean to shoot you down, was just trying to foster discussion =P. The more I think about it the more it seems like this *does* provide a benefit over a centralized solution. So ignore me and keep discussing the idea.

Here's my understanding for why the other DAC ideas could not be centralized:

BTS X: Having priviledged access to the price feed is a killer (trust)
BTS DNS: Regulation (seizure & MITM), profit
BTS Music: Same issues as with all centralized media, "the rich get richer" (more access to distribution points -> easier to lock others out)
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline rysgc

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 07:19:46 PM »
Aww man I don't mean to shoot you down, was just trying to foster discussion =P. The more I think about it the more it seems like this *does* provide a benefit over a centralized solution. So ignore me and keep discussing the idea.

Here's my understanding for why the other DAC ideas could not be centralized:

BTS X: Having priviledged access to the price feed is a killer (trust)
BTS DNS: Regulation (seizure & MITM), profit
BTS Music: Same issues as with all centralized media, "the rich get richer" (more access to distribution points -> easier to lock others out)

Ha don't worry mate it's good you keep an eye on the forum and help people where you can, I'm not even sure myself if it's a DAC according to I3's rules but in my head it is :p
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 07:39:50 PM »
The profit model (IMO) does not necessarily need to be in the form of liquid/transferable tokens or shares in order to make a successful DAC.  As long as participation in the network generates any form of benefits (liquid profit, utility, or even entertainment) that a critical mass of people value above the cost of their participation, the network can be "profitable" and thus self sustaining.

Offline oco101

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 07:45:35 PM »
Quote
Then a 'crowd sourcing' campaign can be started to raise money from the shareholders who are willing to solve this case. Now at this point everyone can help solve this case depending on your specific skills and submit their tips to the system. All tips are being collected and are visibile to anyone. The shareholders can vote on which tip(s) have led

Not sure I understand how it will work. Can you explain who would be the shareholders who are willing to solve the case ? Why they would invest in the case ?

Offline rysgc

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2014, 12:23:43 AM »
Ah sorry , slight confusion with my typing there. This would be a better line:
''...to raise money from the shareholders who would like to see this case solved'.

They would invest if they think it's for a good cause and would like to see justice done. It really is similar to crow funding. Also investors get their shares from unsolved cases and the bounty put up by the case creator so that could be another reason.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 12:28:29 AM by GodsCreation »
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Offline barwizi

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2014, 01:40:07 AM »
vigilantes? super hero DAC?

 +5%

I'm in with a S on my chest!!!
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Offline biophil

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Re: Global watchmen DAC
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 04:40:00 PM »
Aww man I don't mean to shoot you down, was just trying to foster discussion =P. The more I think about it the more it seems like this *does* provide a benefit over a centralized solution. So ignore me and keep discussing the idea.

Here's my understanding for why the other DAC ideas could not be centralized:

BTS X: Having priviledged access to the price feed is a killer (trust)
BTS DNS: Regulation (seizure & MITM), profit
BTS Music: Same issues as with all centralized media, "the rich get richer" (more access to distribution points -> easier to lock others out)

Ha don't worry mate it's good you keep an eye on the forum and help people where you can, I'm not even sure myself if it's a DAC according to I3's rules but in my head it is :p

For what it's worth, toast's DAC criteria aren't the only way to look at the problem. I prefer to boil it down to a single main (oversimplified) pro/con for each of the D, A, and C:

Distributed Pro: Resilient to malice or corruption in ways that centralized systems can't be
Distributed Con: Distributed systems are intrinsically more difficult to build efficiently; since decision-makers don't have access to global information

Autonomous Pro: Efficiency, since you don't have to pay management, trading specialists, or oversight.
Autonomous Con: It is damn hard to build an autonomous system that also interacts with humans.

Corporation (meaning that shareholders profit) Pro: If all shareholders profit, you'll attract a large user/shareholder population.
Corporation Con: This one's an open question in my mind... Seems like some business models, like insurance, work better as a non-profit. But you could probably just say that for insurance, the policyholders are the shareholders, so of course they benefit.

Then the criterion for a DAC to be feasible is that the sum of all the pros have to outweigh the sum of the cons. That way you can explain why Bitcoin was successful even though its shareholders don't profit: Bitcoin did the D and A parts of DAC well enough that it was able to ignore C.

The "Watchmen DAC" seems to have a weak C, but it could have a very strong D and A.

Just my two cents.

 

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