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Offline luckybit

Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« on: March 17, 2014, 07:37:04 PM »

Can we have commodity categories like "computation", "storage", "memory", "sensory", and other core components that make up a computer? Then have commodities in these categories which represent various essential components?

For example, Intel CPUs would be like "BitIntelI7CHIP". This commodity would track the price of the Intel I7 chipset.

Or for example, AMD CPUs would be like "BitAMDKaveriCHIP". This of course would track the price of the AMD Kaveri chip.

Additionally we would be able to put some graphics cards, solid state drives, ram, slr cameras, smart phones, headphones, you get the picture.

This would allow people to treat computing, storage, ram, cameras, smart phones, headphones, as commodities to be traded on a BTX chain. I don't know about you but I would love to be able to speculate on computing hardware prices.

What about video game consoles? That is another area for another potential chain where every console is treated as a commodity or popular games become commodities. People like to collect both consoles and games, so this would work well too.

When speculating on something like ram or hard drives you never know if a natural disaster will result in the price of hard drives being artificially inflated for several years or if some breakthrough will completely change the industry. Ideally you would think it would go down but how would it move in relation to the other chips on the market? What about sales? Perhaps chips that sell better could win a sort of bet so that people can profit if AMD outsold Intel chips that season.

What are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 07:42:02 PM by luckybit »
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Offline speedy

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Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 08:56:00 PM »
I agree there is all sorts interesting different domains you could predict with the powerful & disruptive technology that is Bitshares X. Speculating on RAM wouldn't be my thing, but personally I would find this hilarious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Analysis_Market

Offline toast

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 09:04:26 PM »
BitWW3In2015
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 09:22:49 PM »
It would be an interesting this for price discovery (prices different in different countries). But the prices of these things are usually fixed by the manufacturer, right?
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Offline phoenix

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Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 09:28:13 PM »
It would be an interesting this for price discovery (prices different in different countries). But the prices of these things are usually fixed by the manufacturer, right?
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Offline speedy

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Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 09:37:16 PM »
Has Bytemaster considered allowing in the future the dynamic creating of new assets in the exchange?

People could propose a new asset description, such as BitWhateverImInterestedIn, and if later on there is insufficient market activity then the asset expires. This would be awesome.

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 10:51:11 PM »
Has Bytemaster considered allowing in the future the dynamic creating of new assets in the exchange?

People could propose a new asset description, such as BitWhateverImInterestedIn, and if later on there is insufficient market activity then the asset expires. This would be awesome.

While each chain is static, anyone can create new chains with their own asset list.  I suspect there may be some BitShares Me dynamic prototyping to gauge interest and work out details before launching a new static chain.  It's possible that BitShares Me assets will even be used as snapshot providers.

Offline luckybit

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 01:58:04 AM »
I agree there is all sorts interesting different domains you could predict with the powerful & disruptive technology that is Bitshares X. Speculating on RAM wouldn't be my thing, but personally I would find this hilarious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Analysis_Market

The one area you don't want to speculate on is politics. That would make governments go after everything associated with Bitshares.

But I think speculating on ram, cpu, and not so serious matters would be fun and not likely to cause a global crackdown.

This is why it might be a mistake to have "Bitshares" as the overall brand of all these kinds of commodity markets. I hope the Bitshares brand only applies to what Invictus is doing because there are bound to be some idiots out there who will make "Policy Analysis" type prediction markets and it will not end well in my opinion based on US history.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 02:00:58 AM by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 02:07:58 AM »
Has Bytemaster considered allowing in the future the dynamic creating of new assets in the exchange?

People could propose a new asset description, such as BitWhateverImInterestedIn, and if later on there is insufficient market activity then the asset expires. This would be awesome.

I think the DACs should be static. Trying to make them dynamic in this way would cause problems. Each Bitshares chain in my opinion should be with fixed commodities so people can choose the chain they want. If you let people randomly change commodities in the chain then what if not everyone agrees on what commodities?

For example you brought up a policy analysis market, but I would want nothing to do with that. If that were on some unofficial chain then it's isolated from the rest of the ecosystem and if governments attack it they wouldn't attack the entire Bitshares ecosystem.

If you make the chain dynamic then when governments attack Bitshares they'll attack every chain and everyone associated with it. It's important that we have official chains and unofficial chains, with the official chains being of fixed commodities and not politically controversial. This is to protect Invictus, and to protect the people who use and support the Bitshares network, for it can never go mainstream if its stained by political controversy.

Satoshi basically said the same about Bitcoin when people involved it with Wikileaks and I agree with his sentiments.

Has Bytemaster considered allowing in the future the dynamic creating of new assets in the exchange?

People could propose a new asset description, such as BitWhateverImInterestedIn, and if later on there is insufficient market activity then the asset expires. This would be awesome.

While each chain is static, anyone can create new chains with their own asset list.  I suspect there may be some BitShares Me dynamic prototyping to gauge interest and work out details before launching a new static chain.  It's possible that BitShares Me assets will even be used as snapshot providers.

And this is the safe route. The static chains are a lot easier to debug and test, additionally we can get an idea of how governments and institutions react to the static chains. Dynamic chains would be quite messy, unpredictable results both politically and socially, and not everyone is going to want to be involved with every asset on every chain. When it's static you can evaluate each individual chain and decide, when it's dynamic you could be happy with the profitability of a certain chain and then some asset could be put on it which results in great risk for anyone using that chain.

To avoid that, static chains are set in stone. Similar to how if you use Bitcoin you don't want to find that developers opted to increase the total supply after you bought into it.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 02:17:21 AM by luckybit »
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Offline toast

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2014, 02:21:02 AM »
It'd actually be really easy to have dynamic assets, you'd just have to figure out the rules for how to remove an asset without something really screwy happening with the market on the way out. Deciding which asset to add/remove can be done with share votes. If there's a max of 10 assets then clearly anything with greater than 10% of shares wanting that asset should be included.
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Offline luckybit

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2014, 04:59:50 AM »
It'd actually be really easy to have dynamic assets, you'd just have to figure out the rules for how to remove an asset without something really screwy happening with the market on the way out. Deciding which asset to add/remove can be done with share votes. If there's a max of 10 assets then clearly anything with greater than 10% of shares wanting that asset should be included.

The problem here is the tyranny of the majority. You could have a majority of voters who want something the minority don't want so the minority sell their shares and leave? I don't think it's worth the political division which could occur.

Voting brings about politics, once you have politics the entire scene will change in a bad way.
At least the way things are now with the niche boutique model you have people who simply wont buy shares in chains they don't like the assets and will buy shares in chains they do without any need for conflict.
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Offline toast

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 05:08:42 AM »
What if I put it this way: there are as many assets as there are markets with at least 5% of the total BTS in collateral on the short side.
Sound less tyrannical? =)
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Offline luckybit

Re: Ideas for commodities to consider for a new chain BTX chain
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 05:11:02 AM »
What if I put it this way: there are as many assets as there are markets with at least 5% of the total BTS in collateral on the short side.
Sound less tyrannical? =)

I don't know, I just like separation and isolation from a security point of view. Perhaps in the future it might make sense to go the dynamic route, after it's mainstream and we know how the governments will regulate it.

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Offline toast

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