Play rules survey

[HackFisher]

Just make sure the wallet has an automatic random number generator so I can buy say 1000 tickets with one click.  Kinda like a quickpick.

Yes, that's the area of user experience and what I would like to support in CLI or user interface.

[puppies]

I honestly like the very low probability games with limited payouts for matching fewer numbers.  Something like match 3 of 6 win 5% of pot spread out amongst all 3 of 6 winners.  Match 4 of 6 win 10% of pot spread out over all 4 of 6 winners.  5 of 6 = 20% 6 of 6 =  60% with 5% destroyed as dividends.  This way it is still relatively easy to win smaller amounts, but the pot and the possible rewards will continue growing until someone hits the jackpot. 

Just make sure the wallet has an automatic random number generator so I can buy say 1000 tickets with one click.  Kinda like a quickpick.

[gamey]

Possibly look to model Keno.  Keno is very close to a lottery.  People can choose their own payouts by buying balls if i recall correctly.

The difference between keno and lotteries is keno relies on a pool of house money for jackpots.  Thats how payouts stay high even though the # of tickets bought may be relatively low.  This also adds the need for a house fund and thus investors.  It makes the whole thing a bit more attractive when people can put their PTS or what have you backing the DAC.

[Empirical1]

Option 1: Simple x-from-y lotto
In a simple 6-from-49 lotto, a player chooses six numbers from 1 to 49 (no duplicates are allowed). If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing (regardless of the order in which the numbers are drawn), then the player is a jackpot winner. For such a lottery, the chance of being a jackpot winner is 1 in 13,983,816.

For this lottery, will you also have smaller prizes for matching 3/4/5 numbers?

[muse-umum]

added one more option: the classic satoshi dice.

 

[HackFisher]

added one more option: the classic satoshi dice.

[Stan]

With the 'choosing numbers' and hope to get the right numbers to win approach, how will lottoshares gain their value.

I'm assuming you would need to send lottoshares to the DAC to give in your numbers. So the shares draw some utility value from there. But there is no incentive to own lots of shares.

If I own 100 lotto shares I wont want to spend the time submitting 100 lotto numbers. And if I win the lottery and get a million shares. What good are they? I'll just sell them unless I want to make a million submissions. Right? am I missing something here?

Bitshares Lotto is a profitable DAC, just like other DACs, There will be two demands for the lotto shares, to play the game and to own the game, which has been mentioned in Stan's News letter.

There would be dividends to lotto shares owners, and as TaPOS requires, you might need to own shares to be miners.
If you want stable ROI, you might want to act as owners, if you think you are very lucky today, it's good choice to try lotto tickets. 

Demand type #3:  To own future DACs in this franchise.  This is the Daddy-DAC of a proto-family!

[muse-umum]

How about use bitusd,bitcny in Lotto and not release a new coin like bitLotto?

i guess it is not possible in the short term since there is a long long way for xt to go.


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[cgafeng]

How about use bitusd,bitcny in Lotto and not release a new coin like bitLotto?

[HackFisher]

With the 'choosing numbers' and hope to get the right numbers to win approach, how will lottoshares gain their value.

I'm assuming you would need to send lottoshares to the DAC to give in your numbers. So the shares draw some utility value from there. But there is no incentive to own lots of shares.

If I own 100 lotto shares I wont want to spend the time submitting 100 lotto numbers. And if I win the lottery and get a million shares. What good are they? I'll just sell them unless I want to make a million submissions. Right? am I missing something here?

Bitshares Lotto is a profitable DAC, just like other DACs, There will be two demands for the lotto shares, to play the game and to own the game, which has been mentioned in Stan's News letter.

There would be dividends to lotto shares owners, and as TaPOS requires, you might need to own shares to be miners.
If you want stable ROI, you might want to act as owners, if you think you are very lucky today, it's good choice to try lotto tickets. 

[MrJeans]

With the 'choosing numbers' and hope to get the right numbers to win approach, how will lottoshares gain their value.

I'm assuming you would need to send lottoshares to the DAC to give in your numbers. So the shares draw some utility value from there. But there is no incentive to own lots of shares.

If I own 100 lotto shares I wont want to spend the time submitting 100 lotto numbers. And if I win the lottery and get a million shares. What good are they? I'll just sell them unless I want to make a million submissions. Right? am I missing something here?

[muse-umum]

Low winning chance is not funny.

I prefer opinion 1 but with less number , multiple selections , and high frequency . Just like 时时彩 in China. http://www.9188.com/ssc/  This may be more attractive.

Let me make it simple:

9 numbers: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Draw result: 0.1,4,8

My selection A: 1 from 9
My number: 2 LOSE

My selection B: 2 from 9 
My number: 0, 4 WIN!

My selection C: 3 from 9
My number:0,4,7 LOSE

My selection D: 4 from 9
My number: 0,1,4,8 WIN!

[toast]

Both options just delay the payout, we need to spread it over many blocks. We are able to craft custom transaction validation rules anyway.
Just say that if an output is a "reward" output you can only spend up to N shares per block from it and the rest go into another reward output to the same person.

[HackFisher]

No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

OK... I agree, I prefer using "nLockTime" from Bitcoin protocal to lock/freeze the payment for several blocks.
Bitshares_toolkit's transaction seems to have a similar field "valid_until", not sure if it is the same with nLockTime.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5783/transactions-with-a-wait-time-using-nlocktime

[biophil]

No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

Haha, it would create an interesting dynamic if payouts were always lump-sum: someone would win the lottery, dump their shares, the price would crash, and then everybody would have an opportunity to buy cheap shares. It would be like a great big distributed lottery win for everybody.

[toast]

No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

[MrJeans]

I think we should start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.  The participant pool will be way too small at the start to have national lottery style games.  Publicity is everything. The odds of finding a winner will be too small and people will lose interest If it takes 9 months to find a winner.  Start with daily games and build up to games like Powerball. Just my 2 cents.

my thoughts were that the lotto would work by having lotto tickets (lotto shares) distributed via PoS (like 10% for AGS and 10% for PTS holders). The remaining 90% can be distributed through PoW via mining and winnings.

Randomly every month a percentage of the remaining money supply (say 1%) is given to a public key holding a specific share (determined at random). Partial shares will not count. I see how this part is a little awekward.

Demand will be created for the shares because each represent tickets in the lotto. You will not have to put in your numbers but people would want to hoard and or speculate on the shares. I believe I read the above somewhere on this forum some time ago.

[CLains]

start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.

Good point.

[JakeThePanda]

I think we should start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.  The participant pool will be way too small at the start to have national lottery style games.  Publicity is everything. The odds of finding a winner will be too small and people will lose interest If it takes 9 months to find a winner.  Start with daily games and build up to games like Powerball. Just my 2 cents.

[CLains]

I'd go for whatever most closely resembles the most lucrative trans-national gambling game balanced by difficulty of implementation.

[HackFisher]

If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing

How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)

Are miners can manipulate the result?
such as add some transfer or delete some.

Miners can influence the block data by collision， if collision prove to be a problem, some prove-of-work mechanism can be introduced to against miner's collisions test.

There is another approach, because ticket need to wait several blocks before it's prize is valid, so I'm thinking blocks info after ticket purchased can also be used for random hashing, this increase the difficulty because miners are hard to predict future events.

[cgafeng]

If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing

How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)

Are miners can manipulate the result?
such as add some transfer or delete some.

[santaclause102]

I would find out what analoque system most of the target audience is most used to and take this!

[HackFisher]

If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing

How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)

[cgafeng]

If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing

How the official drawing produce?

[jwiz168]

Im so excited to share my number game idea  I hope you guys can help me build a DAC for it. It is a two-ball lotto . We can draw each ball from two sets of balls numbered from 0 to 37.  So basically you have red ball to be drawn first and the blue ball next to have a winning combination. We will have a draw twice daily and prizes  come from betting pot at a given draw slot. Sample scenario is Red Ball draws number 6 and blue ball gets number 18. The winning combination is 6-18 in an exact order as what the Red and Blue balls had.

[HackFisher]

Option 1: Simple x-from-y lotto
In a simple 6-from-49 lotto, a player chooses six numbers from 1 to 49 (no duplicates are allowed). If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing (regardless of the order in which the numbers are drawn), then the player is a jackpot winner. For such a lottery, the chance of being a jackpot winner is 1 in 13,983,816.

Option 2: Bonusball lotteries
In bonusball lotteries where the bonus ball is compulsory, the odds are often even lower. In the Mega Millions multi-state lottery in the United States, 5 numbers are drawn from a group of 75 and 1 number is drawn from a group of 15, and a player must match all 6 balls to win the jackpot prize. The chance of winning the jackpot is 1 in 258,890,850.

Option 3: Others
With ordering, repeating? etc.

This is *not* the final decision, just a survey, any idea is welcome here, so we can start to discuss the interesting aspects of lotto.