Author Topic: MaidSafe IPO on Mastercoin  (Read 101202 times)

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Offline donkeypong

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At what point do the dev's look at each other in the room and say, geez guys we have missed all of our deadlines and other competing companies are releasing products and gaining market traction.  You can have the most revolutionary piece of tech  but if you show up to the party after everyone leaves well you are just standing in a room by yourself saying, "hey everyone look at my great product".

OK, they're late, I get it. But the other 2.0's you mention have all been flawed. If Bitshares gets this right, it will trounce the "competition". I'd rather they get it right than hurry something that has to keep rebooting/retooling/remarketing itself each time it upgrades. The real party has not yet begun.

Offline JoeyD

I don't really care if you value my comments or not, I'm putting my complaints and suggestions on the record.   You can read my entire posting history and see all the context of my current irritation with Invictus.   If you have specific questions I'm happy to educate.

Nice.

For the record I did try asking nicely with sugar on top and this is your response. Sorry if I'm not part of your little club, but why in hell should I be bothered wasting my time researching each and every posts from someone who can't be bothered to explain his current comments or respond in a normal way. So if you don't care if your points come across, you consequently can't blame people for ignoring what you write.

Why would I want to be "educated" by you anyway, are you some computer science super genius or Nobel-price winner for economics? The whole reason I wanted to discus things with you is because I think you made some factual errors and that there are some actual real technical reasons why things can't work the way you want them to. I'm not particularly interested in a lesson in arrogance, I had my fair share of that in university.

Offline Gentso1

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Such comments do BitShares no favours. Saying shit doesn't make it true. Brag about it once you have a working product. Talk is cheap etc. Making empty promises is more likely to put people off than attract them.


If I would be one of the founder's or dev's of the project I would probably agree ... But I am not...
But even if I have the power to attract people or put them off because of my quotes... then I will probably use my talent more often  :)

PS xeroc buyed allready more PTS... :P  ;)

At what point do the dev's look at each other in the room and say, geez guys we have missed all of our deadlines and other competing companies are releasing products and gaining market traction.  You can have the most revolutionary piece of tech  but if you show up to the party after everyone leaves well you are just standing in a room by yourself saying, "hey everyone look at my great product".


Offline liondani

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Offline AdamBLevine

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Did you advise them for Bitshare products inclusion or against? After such shares become available off course.

Loaded question  ???

I told them to not put all their eggs in one basket and to be a solution agnostic platform that would let them be friends and provide exchange services between all the protocols that seem worthwhile.

You seem to think I don't like Bitshares, why would you think that?   I just don't like that every self imposed deadline has been blown and now we've put all our eggs in the DPOS basket which might work but might just as easily have a horrible glaring flaw that could not be foreseen because nobody has done it before.  I would rather have launched the products as described (Keyhotee and Bitshares) then worked on obsoleting mining in subsequent rounds of innovation.   

Bitshares is not being excluded or conspired against by anyone, there just isn't much to talk about and what there IS to talk about has been very poorly articulated by Invictus, mostly buried in these echo-chamber forums.  When they have a great product and somehow nobody is including them in their exchange, then you can cry conspiracy.  Until then the only people you should be complaining to are invictus for not having a product to even consider for inclusion.

I've asked this before a few times, so lets hope you do read this comment this time. Would you be prepared to discuss your points somewhere?

Your type of hit and run remarks are not really solving the "echo-chamber" problem you perceive, nor are they helping someone like me, who only joined the forums after the discussion you seem to have had, to understand the points you are trying to make. Also some of your points are not as clear cut to me as you make them out to be, such as the mining would have worked assumption. I also get the impression you always feel personally attacked and the need to defend yourself by attacking others when you post here.

I'm not saying this is what you meant to say, but without the rest of the information your post comes across as: You should have gone with mining, told you so and all the real information is buried on this forum because of all ya fanboys here talking nonsense.

You can't really blame people for not valuing your comments as much as you feel they should if you respond in this manner. You do not participate in the discussion following your comments and in just about every post you make you throw around some odd snide remarks geared toward the entirety of the forum members, or concentrate on persons instead of arguments. I think the way people respond to you and the voiced theories directed at your person are caused by the way you choose to "participate".  You might have some very good and valid points, but what you're doing now only provokes irritation and makes you come across like a troll more than anything else, because you don't provide the information needed to understand your points.

Again this is not a conspiracy theory or a personal attack, I just want to understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think you're making that as easy as it could be.

I don't really care if you value my comments or not, I'm putting my complaints and suggestions on the record.   You can read my entire posting history and see all the context of my current irritation with Invictus.   If you have specific questions I'm happy to educate.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline davidpbrown

Such comments do BitShares no favours. Saying shit doesn't make it true. Brag about it once you have a working product. Talk is cheap etc. Making empty promises is more likely to put people off than attract them.


If I would be one of the founder's or dev's of the project I would probably agree ... But I am not...
But even if I have the power to attract people or put them off because of my quotes... then I will probably use my talent more often  :)

PS xeroc buyed allready more PTS... :P  ;)

That was a simple statement of the perception such chatter has, rather than suggesting you carry that responsibility. It also happens to be a direct quote I put to eMunie, since I saw the same nonsense there.
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Offline liondani

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Such comments do BitShares no favours. Saying shit doesn't make it true. Brag about it once you have a working product. Talk is cheap etc. Making empty promises is more likely to put people off than attract them.


If I would be one of the founder's or dev's of the project I would probably agree ... But I am not...
But even if I have the power to attract people or put them off because of my quotes... then I will probably use my talent more often  :)

PS xeroc buyed allready more PTS... :P  ;)

Offline mf-tzo

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I can buying AGS via PTS! Plus I can sell some if/when price goes up pre-DNS and pre-ME snapshot!


There must be a value for PTS associated with DPOS when this is implemented and I would like some more elaboration on that value since I am not a tech guy and I don't understand these things  ::)...

Otherwise I would prefer help the development and have some restrictions in my short term liquidity (AGS) than to try to beat the market for trading PTS. Although I can understand the frustration and some people don't support much AGS as they should...

Offline xeroc

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I don't understand why someone would load lots of PTS instead of donate to loads of AGS...

Since you believe in the future DACS why pay something for $3.5 dollars instead of AGS worth less than $1? The only advantage of PTS is the liquidity and trading by speculating on the price, but if DACs are released and worth something is it not better to have as much as shares as possible?

What am I missing here?
I can buying AGS via PTS! Plus I can sell some if/when price goes up pre-DNS and pre-ME snapshot!

Offline davidpbrown

.... Conclusion ... Guys invest only on BitShares*, enough with shitcoins and shitprojects experimentation... at least the devs on bitshares are trustworthy and honest or if you preffer not so greedy like elsewhere... you can not make a big mistake here!

Such comments do BitShares no favours. Saying shit doesn't make it true. Brag about it once you have a working product. Talk is cheap etc. Making empty promises is more likely to put people off than attract them.

There is market space for all meta coins to do well, you don't have to put down the competition; doing so only makes you appear weak. Some meta coins are showing real promise and are delivering capability now and several will be real contenders. Perhaps some will then compete with BitShares own features but that challenge only makes you stronger. If BitShares is to be so much better, let it do the talking.


Also, you evidently haven't looked into the background of MaidSafe; it looks like a remarkable project with real potential and many years of support - just consider the academic outputs and patents alone. Google Scholar search suggests 76 results (BitShares gets 2). As such, of course, the usual pump and dump crowd will miss the point but who needs them coasting on a free ride.


While I'm here, I didn't want to post a simple 'me too' post but impressed with AdamBLevine's reply above, as that's spot on. DPOS is ambitious and I'm keen to see BitShares deliver a first product.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 01:50:30 pm by davidpbrown »
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Offline mf-tzo

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I don't understand why someone would load lots of PTS instead of donate to loads of AGS...

Since you believe in the future DACS why pay something for $3.5 dollars instead of AGS worth less than $1? The only advantage of PTS is the liquidity and trading by speculating on the price, but if DACs are released and worth something is it not better to have as much as shares as possible?

What am I missing here?

Offline xeroc

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Just reloaded with loads of PTS!

Offline liondani

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Honestly this seems like a normal market reaction to a too-concentrated launch on a product that most people do not understand.

I suppose the reason  it dropped so much the last Days was the fact that mastercoin released just this days mastechest v0.4 (The Masterchest Windows Wallet v4.0 has been released supporting trading MSC/BTC on the Decentralized Exchange, and support for Smart Property balances and SP sending.) That means until now the majority of maidsafecoins holders was traped with masterchest v0.3 that had not the option to send the maidsafecoins to an exchange (https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=maid) to sell them until this days... 3 weeks after the IPO !!! In the meantime the insiders who had that knowlledge, (that they would delay v0.4) and don't made the donations with masterchest v0.3  on 22 April (IPO launch), had all the time to dump slowly their coins with about 40% gains until this days... Now where the majority of insiders is satisfied, they release masterchest v0.4 so we the litle poor suckers can sell our coins too BUT with a loss or at best (if we  pray hard to God) we get our money back .... Conclusion ... Guys invest only on BitShares*, enough with shitcoins and shitprojects** experimentation... at least the devs on bitshares are trustworthy and honest or if you preffer not so greedy like elsewhere... you can not make a big mistake here! Even the PTS are more stable than bitcoin the last months (and that's before the  release of BTSX ! ... think about it!)...

*Yes AdamBLevine, the eggs in one fucking good basket




** EDIT I wanted to say shit-IPOs the project seem's realy good that's why I have personally invested too, not knowing of course that they will change the rules 1 hour after the fundraising started


« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 03:25:55 pm by liondani »

Offline liondani

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now we've put all our eggs in the DPOS basket which might work but might just as easily have a horrible glaring flaw that could not be foreseen because nobody has done it before.

Higher risk = higher potential/odds for big profits...


"because nobody has done it before"

The greatest achievements in history was accomplished for that reason...


PS Of course fails too...

Offline JoeyD

Did you advise them for Bitshare products inclusion or against? After such shares become available off course.

Loaded question  ???

I told them to not put all their eggs in one basket and to be a solution agnostic platform that would let them be friends and provide exchange services between all the protocols that seem worthwhile.

You seem to think I don't like Bitshares, why would you think that?   I just don't like that every self imposed deadline has been blown and now we've put all our eggs in the DPOS basket which might work but might just as easily have a horrible glaring flaw that could not be foreseen because nobody has done it before.  I would rather have launched the products as described (Keyhotee and Bitshares) then worked on obsoleting mining in subsequent rounds of innovation.   

Bitshares is not being excluded or conspired against by anyone, there just isn't much to talk about and what there IS to talk about has been very poorly articulated by Invictus, mostly buried in these echo-chamber forums.  When they have a great product and somehow nobody is including them in their exchange, then you can cry conspiracy.  Until then the only people you should be complaining to are invictus for not having a product to even consider for inclusion.

I've asked this before a few times, so lets hope you do read this comment this time. Would you be prepared to discuss your points somewhere?

Your type of hit and run remarks are not really solving the "echo-chamber" problem you perceive, nor are they helping someone like me, who only joined the forums after the discussion you seem to have had, to understand the points you are trying to make. Also some of your points are not as clear cut to me as you make them out to be, such as the mining would have worked assumption. I also get the impression you always feel personally attacked and the need to defend yourself by attacking others when you post here.

I'm not saying this is what you meant to say, but without the rest of the information your post comes across as: You should have gone with mining, told you so and all the real information is buried on this forum because of all ya fanboys here talking nonsense.

You can't really blame people for not valuing your comments as much as you feel they should if you respond in this manner. You do not participate in the discussion following your comments and in just about every post you make you throw around some odd snide remarks geared toward the entirety of the forum members, or concentrate on persons instead of arguments. I think the way people respond to you and the voiced theories directed at your person are caused by the way you choose to "participate".  You might have some very good and valid points, but what you're doing now only provokes irritation and makes you come across like a troll more than anything else, because you don't provide the information needed to understand your points.

Again this is not a conspiracy theory or a personal attack, I just want to understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think you're making that as easy as it could be.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:31:56 am by JoeyD »