Author Topic: You should read this  (Read 22901 times)

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Offline donkeypong

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I will donate also if that is the best way to affect this. I guess the percentages have been allotted already, so it wouldn't be possible to give BTC holders a generic cut. But another suggestion might be to terminate AGS early and distribute the remaining AGS allocation of Bitshares to BTC holders.

Offline onceuponatime

Dan is absolutely correct here that the new “airdrop paradigm” is a game changer for the crypto community:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theater

Dan: “I suspect that what can happen is that someone can take Bitcoin, and honor the shareholders, and issue a proof of stake version that removes mining from Bitcoin without starting over from scratch.  Basically upgrading Bitcoin.”

Dan is correct in the assumption that whomever is the first to do this, will receive the first mover advantage in that particular area (fairly distributed proof of stake coin unlike our unfairly distributed POS Bitshares).  The Bitcoin “airdrop” of a POS Bitshares clone will be the next “airdrop” idea that receives national media attention.  Dan has foretold the future here.  Again. 
/
/
/
Again, I'll have to side with Dan here.  He has seen the future, but it's up to you guys weather you want to capitalize on his vision or sit back and watch it play out with our competitors gaining the second mover "airdrop" advantage.

I think your idea is brilliant. I would agree to donate 5% of my BTS to this on the condition that Dan thinks it is a good idea and that Stan is then in charge of organizing and implementing the project.

Offline fuzzy

I will gladly donate 10% of my cache...5% to BTC holders and 5% to Doge holders..

For what we donate,  we gain far more in value of human capital and good will.

LETS WIN IN THE GAME OF SHARING, and give BTC holders some humility in the process.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 05:39:46 am by fuznuts »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline donkeypong

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DA, this is a powerful idea and I support the first mover concept. But it would need to be defined to the acceptance of this community, so that Bitshares is shared but not given away by those who have believed in it and taken the risks (or at least helped support those taking the risks).

You mention the two schemes for distribution. But don't forget Marinecoin, which has a scheme of its own.

Allow me to summarize the Marinecoin vision. In a streak of genius, it is 97+% premined. The premine is kept in cold storage in Antarctica. The pitch: get involved now and you will have early dibs on choosing your plot of waterfront land in Marinecity, a planned community for Marinecoin believers. Is this in Antarctica, too? Unclear at this point.

There is also a planned Marinecoin tower and Marinecoin yacht. Presumably, the yacht will be purchased from the pre-mine, though that also is unclear. If you are an early adopter, you will get to spend time on the yacht. The tower will be located in New York City, and plans are underway for a bus tour soon so that Marinecoin believers can help choose the site of the Marinecoin tower. Marinecoin mining is built to continue for the next 1,000 years.

Fortunately, Antarctica should have some nice real estate in about 1,000 years.

[Oh, and I missed one key fact: this Marinecoin community is no joke. These folks are cult-like and dead freaking serious. I've corresponded with them just for fun. This is much more than fun for them. Rather scary, actually.]

So DA, taking a premine of 97+% off the top and storing it in Antarctican cold storage might be another terrific way to get lots of people involved, give them stakes in its success, and begin the viral marketing. Call it the "third way".

And for anyone browsing this forum who finds that Bitshares isn't for you, check out the following link.

http://www.marinecoin.org/

bitbro

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I know I will hate myself for posting this but I will do it any way…

I have always known that if I concentrate really hard I will post something (almost) as wise as bytemaster… (So, will Stan)

I have always known that if I open one of Stan’s post I will read something extremely stupid/ bloated /self-righteous  …

I know this is not the most outrages of his posts, but this was the straw that broke the camels back…

SO,

“Yes, Stan your brother/boss is genius, repeating/praising him without adding nothing to his thoughts is anything but annoying.”

Clarification: Stan is Dan's father


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Offline onceuponatime

I can honestly say that Stan's postings are what got me hooked on this forum. Full of wisdom and humor. Awesome.

Agreed! +5%

Offline donkeypong

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I can honestly say that Stan's postings are what got me hooked on this forum. Full of wisdom and humor. Awesome.

Offline tonyk

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I know I will hate myself for posting this but I will do it any way…

I have always known that if I concentrate really hard I will post something (almost) as wise as bytemaster… (So, will Stan)

I have always known that if I open one of Stan’s post I will read something extremely stupid/ bloated /self-righteous  …

I know this is not the most outrages of his posts, but this was the straw that broke the camels back…

SO,

“Yes, Stan your son/boss is genius, repeating/praising him without adding nothing to his thoughts is anything but annoying.”
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 04:25:24 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Stan

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It's an interesting idea, I'm actually surprised noone's already done something like this. The idea is basically to treat Bitcoin as Protoshares and then Æthereum really becomes Bitcoin 2.0 with a ready to go userbase.

I find this much more attractive than the current Ethereum distribution plan, and since they're piggy-backing on Ethereum development they won't have that much need for dev funds. The question then becomes: will Ethereum stay open source and allow their hard work to get coopted?

Also surprising to see Vitalik helping explain how to implement the wallet procedure :)

We were wondering when the proto-DAC snapshot concept was going to go mainstream.  Looks like people are beginning to wake up to it.

Here's the real end game in 43 seconds, as recorded after Dan's NYC presentation:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theater

But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

However, if you have a more targeted audience in mind, like people who invest and hold vs. people who quickly dump anything new they get for pizza money, then you might want to choose chains to honor that accurately represent the demographic you want to attract.  Maybe your chief competitors chain?  Maybe the intended customers of your DAC?  Maybe people you hope will invest in your DAC?  Maybe people in the same affinity group (those that like cute dogs), etc.

Wouldn't you really rather attract the attention of those who have proven they are willing to freely donate to advance the industry more than those who happen to be holding BTC on any given day?  Especially if you hope to raise more money from them to develop your idea?

The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)

One thing this does show is how utterly dead mining is as a share distribution strategy.

What developer in her right mind is going to give her shares away to the big mining cartels so they can sell them into circulation and pocket all profits after draining and burning all the money that interest in the new DAC has generated?  Money that could have funded development.

Now there is a growing number of ways to put those promotional shares into the right hands while reserving some more shares to sell to the very people whose interest you just stimulated. 

The increased efficiency, earning power and promotional control a developer has with this approach is mind boggling.  Who would turn their back on such tools?

Think carefully about which demographic you want to attract.  Who is better for launching a new DAC than highly informed PTS and AGS holders?

Oh, OK, give holders of BTC a cut too - just to get some attention.   But a big cut?  Why? Are there any holders of any other altcoin who don't also own BTC?  If so, reach out to them with a bit or two.

Now, what is the right mix?

 :)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:05:18 am by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline CWEvans

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One could distribute just under half of the units to Bitcoin holders and keep 50%+1 for oneself.

 ;)

sumantso

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But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

With the lack of marketing of Bitshares, especially BTCtalk presence (I have been neutral regarding this issue), maybe we are getting a fraction if the 'right' people.

Offline Empirical1

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The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)

 +5%

Offline Stan

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It's an interesting idea, I'm actually surprised noone's already done something like this. The idea is basically to treat Bitcoin as Protoshares and then Æthereum really becomes Bitcoin 2.0 with a ready to go userbase.

I find this much more attractive than the current Ethereum distribution plan, and since they're piggy-backing on Ethereum development they won't have that much need for dev funds. The question then becomes: will Ethereum stay open source and allow their hard work to get coopted?

Also surprising to see Vitalik helping explain how to implement the wallet procedure :)

We were wondering when the proto-DAC snapshot concept was going to go mainstream.  Looks like people are beginning to wake up to it.

Here's the real end game in 30 seconds, as recorded after Dan's NYC presentation:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theater

But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

However, if you have a more targeted audience in mind, like people who invest and hold vs. people who quickly dump anything new they get for pizza money, then you might want to choose chains to honor that accurately represent the demographic you want to attract.  Maybe your chief competitors chain?  Maybe the intended customers of your DAC?  Maybe people you hope will invest in your DAC?  Maybe people in the same affinity group (those that like cute dogs), etc.

Wouldn't you really rather attract the attention of those who have proven they are willing to freely donate to advance the industry more than those who happen to be holding BTC on any given day?  Especially if you hope to raise more money from them to develop your idea?

The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Quote
The only situation I was worried about was if a vulture had a great marketing team and industry contacts related to the project they can create clones that can challenge the original. (Which is why I highlight marketing in 'things I'm most worried about' ) But just airdropping to existing Bitcoin holders Pfft. (I guess if it did become an issue, the developers the new community trusts, could in the beginning make some stuff closed source till adoption reaches X market size?)
True. Connections plus development and maintenance never ends. If the developers of the new project are not better then it has close to now value.

Offline donkeypong

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It still depends on mining, right? If so, it's not a sustainable run unless they create incredible value to balance that out.