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Offline tonyk

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83% (5/6ths) of PTS holders are of the opinion that holding PTS, for the benefit of having the option to sell them for $5-$10 apiece, is better than exchanging them for AGS.

This, while AGS investment gives 1.73 better stake in future DACs (add to that that 1.73 is based on average past purchase price and at the moment the price is even more favorable).

Does someone have a reasonable explanation why at least 45-70% of all PTS are not in the AGS fund?

Thanks
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline fuzzy

I personally hold my PTS and donate in BTC because I feel BTC will eventually be realized to be a respected a respected crypto amongst a group of a small handful of others.  I feel that eventually those others will be on par with regard to price...and bitShares PTS might be one of them.
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Offline tonyk

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I personally hold my PTS and donate in BTC because I feel BTC will eventually be realized to be a respected a respected crypto amongst a group of a small handful of others.  I feel that eventually those others will be on par with regard to price...and bitShares PTS might be one of them.
It might be me, but I have no idea what you are saying.

Are you saying you hold your PTS and donate BTC expecting PTS will appreciate?
If so, just buy PTS with your bitcoins first.

Then follow the logic: if PTS (ever) go up in value it will be because the DACs are successful. And if so your PTS will be better (i.e. multiplied) if they are transferred to AGS…
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 03:33:04 AM by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Empirical1

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I personally hold my PTS and donate in BTC because I feel BTC will eventually be realized to be a respected a respected crypto amongst a group of a small handful of others.  I feel that eventually those others will be on par with regard to price...and bitShares PTS might be one of them.
It might be me, but I have no idea what you are saying.

That made me laugh  :D I didn't quite understand that paragraph either :)

Offline donkeypong

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Makes perfect sense when you add "to AGS" to one of those sentences. That is exactly what I do...hold PTS and only donate Bitcoins for AGS. Then hold both. He is right that PTS could be valuable as a liquid title to these DACs. The market seems to value that liquidity above AGS.

Offline fuzzy

LOL!!!  Sorry guys, I am running low on sleep the past couple days and was multitasking at that moment.  It should have read like this:

"I personally hold my PTS and donate in BTC because I feel the ever-growing crypto-community will settle on using a handful of others whose valuations will be similar.  bitShares PTS might be one of them."
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline xeroc

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Once ags dobation window closes, pts will be the only way to get into future dacs .. thats way i hope afs wont be made liquid
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Offline davidpbrown

Does someone have a reasonable explanation why at least 45-70% of all PTS are not in the AGS fund?

Personally, I've never understood AGS well enough. It's not been made obvious that PTS can be converted to AGS.

If the idea of future DACs honoring AGS/PTS is proven and it's clear that benefit you suggest would continue, then perhaps swapping to AGS would be attractive. Perhaps if another snapshot deadline is looming a push for this would go down well.

Jumping extra hoops, and contending with whatever the changing balance of AGS/PTS is, is off putting. I expect I'm more likely to see PTS for sale than AGS, so keeping everything PTS is simple. Also, if some PTS holders switched to AGS, would PTS value not fall?.. Perhaps AGS offers an option to those unfamiliar with cryptocurrencies but I wonder having everyone in one flavour of holding would be easier to understand.

Maybe in future if change to a simple PoS is required to avoid issues with the PoW PTS, perhaps both AGS and PTS can just have that PoS instead - perhaps coupled with a default inflation that doesn't require a server to action, just every account gets interest - or perhaps that is the effect that AGS achieves already??
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Offline amatoB

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Does someone have a reasonable explanation why at least 45-70% of all PTS are not in the AGS fund?

Personally, I've never understood AGS well enough. It's not been made obvious that PTS can be converted to AGS.

If the idea of future DACs honoring AGS/PTS is proven and it's clear that benefit you suggest would continue, then perhaps swapping to AGS would be attractive. Perhaps if another snapshot deadline is looming a push for this would go down well.

Jumping extra hoops, and contending with whatever the changing balance of AGS/PTS is, is off putting. I expect I'm more likely to see PTS for sale than AGS, so keeping everything PTS is simple. Also, if some PTS holders switched to AGS, would PTS value not fall?.. Perhaps AGS offers an option to those unfamiliar with cryptocurrencies but I wonder having everyone in one flavour of holding would be easier to understand.

Maybe in future if change to a simple PoS is required to avoid issues with the PoW PTS, perhaps both AGS and PTS can just have that PoS instead - perhaps coupled with a default inflation that doesn't require a server to action, just every account gets interest - or perhaps that is the effect that AGS achieves already??


Perhaps the seemingly low exchange ratio between PTS and AGS can be partly explained by the option value and flexibility of PTS with respect to timing of donation. Even if a PTS holder doesn't donate to AGS today, they have the flexibility to do so tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that... That is to say, if the exchange terms for donating could be almost as good tomorrow, or even better, why jump into donating right away? Indeed, it'll be more surprising if exchange rates stay low throughout the entire remainder of the donation period.

Offline NewMine

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PTS is less risk.

Holding PTS gives you control of something liquid.

AGS return on investment is completely dependent on the word of I3.

Offline tonyk

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Does someone have a reasonable explanation why at least 45-70% of all PTS are not in the AGS fund?

Personally, I've never understood AGS well enough. It's not been made obvious that PTS can be converted to AGS.

If the idea of future DACs honoring AGS/PTS is proven and it's clear that benefit you suggest would continue, then perhaps swapping to AGS would be attractive. Perhaps if another snapshot deadline is looming a push for this would go down well.

Jumping extra hoops, and contending with whatever the changing balance of AGS/PTS is, is off putting. I expect I'm more likely to see PTS for sale than AGS, so keeping everything PTS is simple. Also, if some PTS holders switched to AGS, would PTS value not fall?.. Perhaps AGS offers an option to those unfamiliar with cryptocurrencies but I wonder having everyone in one flavour of holding would be easier to understand.

Maybe in future if change to a simple PoS is required to avoid issues with the PoW PTS, perhaps both AGS and PTS can just have that PoS instead - perhaps coupled with a default inflation that doesn't require a server to action, just every account gets interest - or perhaps that is the effect that AGS achieves already??


Perhaps the seemingly low exchange ratio between PTS and AGS can be partly explained by the option value and flexibility of PTS with respect to timing of donation. Even if a PTS holder doesn't donate to AGS today, they have the flexibility to do so tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that... That is to say, if the exchange terms for donating could be almost as good tomorrow, or even better, why jump into donating right away? Indeed, it'll be more surprising if exchange rates stay low throughout the entire remainder of the donation period.

"Even if a PTS holder doesn't donate to AGS today, they have the flexibility to do so tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that"

It is good in theory but with 1,200,000+ PTS available for donation for the available 96 days (or 480,000 AGS) waiting for much better than current exchange rate does not seem logical. Let say 600,000 waiting to be donated/exchanged for 480,000 AGS

The only argument for holding to PTS is liquidity… but I have accounted for that (I think) by expecting only 45-60% to actually exchange for AGS not 100%
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Stan

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PTS is less risk.

Holding PTS gives you control of something liquid.

AGS return on investment is completely dependent on the word of I3.

Actually, its up to every developer to decide whether they really want to disrespect either PTS or AGS holders.

Would I really want to tell all the AGS holders who donated to build this community that I don't need them and then launch a DAC depending upon some other group to come to my rescue?

I guess some have tried...    :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

 

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