Author Topic: 117,567 BitShares allocated to PTS Angel Address  (Read 4581 times)

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Offline Stan

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Im glad that Invictus has a large stake in BTSX. That gives extra motivation for them to finish it.

And for all future DACs also !!! Don't forget that !

When the pedal is already to the metal there is no such thing as "extra motivation".   :)

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 10:58:49 pm by Stan »
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Offline liondani

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Im glad that Invictus has a large stake in BTSX. That gives extra motivation for them to finish it.

And for all future DACs also !!! Don't forget that !

Offline speedy

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Im glad that Invictus has a large stake in BTSX. That gives extra motivation for them to finish it.

Offline MrJeans

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As a long term investor I saw it as a huge plus that I3 will benefit from each DAC they spin off. This just means the industry I am investing in has more potential.

Offline BitShares.com

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Thank you for the explanations and clarifications everyone.

Offline sudo

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Try looking at it this way:

The price of PTS at any point in time represents the market's assessment of the potential of the entire BitShares industry.

When a DAC spins off, some of that potential spins off with it and the price of PTS drops by the amount of future potential that is no longer predicted by PTS.  Nobody minds though, because they now own shares in both and the sum of the two is greater because the value that moved has gone from potential to actual.

So when donated PTS shares "split" the donated value just moves into different buckets.  It is still there to help fund the growth of the industry as the donors intended.  To the extent that these spin-offs are successful, the seed money available to maintain and promote them grows too.

And thus each successful spinoff replenishes the supply of funds expended to create it, making those funds available again for the next DAC in the development queue.  With luck, the funds will grow exponentially, making the number of DACs we can fund in parallel grow exponentially.

This is what we have promised to do with spinoffs from donated funds.  We did not promise to leave them idle or to burn them.  That would be poor stewardship indeed!

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Offline 天籁

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Try looking at it this way:

The price of PTS at any point in time represents the market's assessment of the potential of the entire BitShares industry.

When a DAC spins off, some of that potential spins off with it and the price of PTS drops by the amount of future potential that is no longer predicted by PTS.  Nobody minds though, because they now own shares in both and the sum of the two is greater because the value that moved has gone from potential to actual.

So when donated PTS shares "split" the donated value just moves into different buckets.  It is still there to help fund the growth of the industry as the donors intended.  To the extent that these spin-offs are successful, the seed money available to maintain and promote them grows too.

And thus each successful spinoff replenishes the supply of funds expended to create it, making those funds available again for the next DAC in the development queue.  With luck, the funds will grow exponentially, making the number of DACs we can fund in parallel grow exponentially.

This is what we have promised to do with spinoffs from donated funds.  We did not promise to leave them idle or to burn them.  That would be poor stewardship indeed!

Offline Stan

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We did not promise to leave them idle or to burn them.  That would be poor stewardship indeed!

For BTS XT in particular I'm pretty certain you said you would not touch them. I wouldn't mind if you did and I think that we should, I'm just recalling what you said. Trying to find that post now.

You can find my first discussion of the topic on January 10th (w.r.t. bytemaster's from January 9th) here (emphasis added):  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2196.msg25902#msg25902

Quote
Quote from: bytemaster on January 09, 2014, 07:46:27 PM

We will be using the BitShares earned in the Angel Address to fund development of the ecosystem.
Quote
Quote from: Stan on January 10, 2014, 02:19:24 AM

The question bytemaster was answering is who gets the BTS for all the as-yet unspent PTS donated for AGS?  The answer is they go back into the same kitty to fund infrastructure development and promote the industry.  NOT to Invictus.

 :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:14:17 pm by Stan »
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Offline jwiz168

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Back when snapshot has taken place, the ratio between AGS and PTS was 3.33:1.33 .The natural instinct of an investor that time was to donate because it will yield much more as compare to somebody who held their PTS.  The dilution of shares you are talking about is that 10000 AGS shares allocation were up for grabs in a day. For me this is fair in terms of having everybody getting a chance to invest at bitshares. Just imagine if the AGS allocation is not diluted and the ratio would be 1 bts per AGS. An investor can easily grabbed the 10000 AGS allocation by himself without giving others a chance to have a stake at bitshares for a day. If somebody wanted bigger share then he or she must donate bigger amount . This is the reason why we call it shares. Sharing a  worthy investment.

Offline toast

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Let's hope I'm wrong and you never said that... It would be nice to spend XTS for development.
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Offline toast

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We did not promise to leave them idle or to burn them.  That would be poor stewardship indeed!

For BTS XT in particular I'm pretty certain you said you would not touch them. I wouldn't mind if you did and I think that we should, I'm just recalling what you said. Trying to find that post now.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline Stan

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Try looking at it this way:

The price of PTS at any point in time represents the market's assessment of the potential of the entire BitShares industry.

When a DAC spins off, some of that potential spins off with it and the price of PTS drops by the amount of future potential that is no longer predicted by PTS.  Nobody minds though, because they now own shares in both and the sum of the two is greater because the value that moved has gone from potential to actual.

So when donated PTS shares "split" the donated value just moves into different buckets.  It is still there to help fund the growth of the industry as the donors intended.  To the extent that these spin-offs are successful, the seed money available to maintain and promote them grows too.

And thus each successful spinoff replenishes the supply of funds expended to create it, making those funds available again for the next DAC in the development queue.  With luck, the funds will grow exponentially, making the number of DACs we can fund in parallel grow exponentially.

This is what we have promised to do with spinoffs from donated funds.  We did not promise to leave them idle or to burn them.  That would be poor stewardship indeed!

 

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline toast

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It doesn't dilute your share though. Those pts would be honored no matter who held them. I thought the whole point of being able to donate pts was so that you could put future snapshots into the ags fund, so that it can grow even after ags period is over.

Would be good to have confirmation about result of btsx snapshot. They could send it into unclaimable addresses over the period of a year so they slowly get paid as dividends over time.

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Offline BitShares.com

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Perhaps unfair is the wrong word. To me, it just seems that honoring the Angel Address undermines the whole point of donating in exchange for AngelShares.

It concerns me that Invictus has said the BTSX funds from this allocation 'would not be touched'. Does that mean indefinitely? Or until they feel like it? If they are to stand by that word, they may as well burn the shares.

I am all for funding development, that is the point of AngelShares. I also understand that this was to be expected, as this is simply a logical result of how the system works. To me, it just seems much simpler for investors to make intelligent informed decisions with their funds without the complexity overhead that honoring the Angel Address adds. The whole AngelShares funding concept isn't the simplest thing to wrap your head around, and this adds deep complexity to the system. I don't think most people factored in this dilution of their share allocation when donating.

Offline toast

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First of all, I3 already said BTS X from the snapshot would not be touched. Other DACs snapshots will be used for development. THIS IS A GOOD THING, all the funds are committed to ecosystem development.

Secondly, how on earth is it not fair? It is very very clearly stated exactly how it works. It's not fair because if it were changed, you'd get more money? =)
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.