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Offline luckybit

Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« on: May 16, 2014, 07:59:12 AM »

Set up a site where everyone competes to generate the most effective memes. Reward effectiveness. Maybe let people use prediction market mechanisms to predict which memes will be the most effective?

Design it in such a way so that it's a sort of evolutionary contest which has a payout/jackpot according to how effective and viral the chosen meme is. Perhaps set it up in such a way that ad revenue generates the jackpot? Maybe if two old memes combine split the payout in some way too?

I've seen a variation on this approach in the Blackcoin community. What do you all think about it?

These ideas may not be well thought out but it's meant to inspire others to think about it.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 11:39:31 AM »
Set up a site where everyone competes to generate the most effective memes. Reward effectiveness. Maybe let people use prediction market mechanisms to predict which memes will be the most effective?

Design it in such a way so that it's a sort of evolutionary contest which has a payout/jackpot according to how effective and viral the chosen meme is. Perhaps set it up in such a way that ad revenue generates the jackpot? Maybe if two old memes combine split the payout in some way too?

I've seen a variation on this approach in the Blackcoin community. What do you all think about it?

These ideas may not be well thought out but it's meant to inspire others to think about it.

Link to the variation in blackcoin community ?

It really sounds like a variation on ideas I've posted about and seen elsewhere on here.

I like the idea of voting for content which the DAC then awards shares for.  I think this idea could be generalized then have specific applications.  My idea was to use it to generate tech documentation.  No one responded if the idea was decent/bad.  I was just thinking about things I could write that wouldn't be terribly complicated and it is what came to mind.
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 11:54:24 AM »
Set up a site where everyone competes to generate the most effective memes. Reward effectiveness. Maybe let people use prediction market mechanisms to predict which memes will be the most effective?

Design it in such a way so that it's a sort of evolutionary contest which has a payout/jackpot according to how effective and viral the chosen meme is. Perhaps set it up in such a way that ad revenue generates the jackpot? Maybe if two old memes combine split the payout in some way too?

I've seen a variation on this approach in the Blackcoin community. What do you all think about it?

These ideas may not be well thought out but it's meant to inspire others to think about it.

Link to the variation in blackcoin community ?

It really sounds like a variation on ideas I've posted about and seen elsewhere on here.

I like the idea of voting for content which the DAC then awards shares for.  I think this idea could be generalized then have specific applications.  My idea was to use it to generate tech documentation.  No one responded if the idea was decent/bad.  I was just thinking about things I could write that wouldn't be terribly complicated and it is what came to mind.

I'm not going to make this about Blackcoin but they have a campaign based approach which they've been using directed by bounties to provide the incentive to make people market Blackcoin. Here is the link for proof: http://www.reddit.com/r/blackcoin/comments/23jt23/meme_it_up/

It's not really important where these ideas come from.

This idea is to generate memes. Documentation isn't really hard to generate as anyone who can speak english can write documentation. Viral memes are extremely difficult to generate yet extremely powerful. Not enough effort is going into creating these sorts of memes in this community so having an incentivised meme generator should be the ideal solution.

Any ideas on how to create one?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:13:29 PM by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 12:04:24 PM »
Here is a system we can use to generate memes on Reddit while improving on the Blackcoin method.

Create a Bitshares tipbot and then have a Meme it up!
Let reddit users vote up the top memes (and each meme must be discussed so the linguistic reasoning behind it is explained).
From among highest voted memes the tipbot should tip random amounts of jackpot.

Memes are extremely powerful. Some people believe President Clinton won the election on a meme: "It's the economy, stupid."

Analyze that meme and you'll quickly see how powerful it is and why it had such an effect on the election. And memes can be mutated, "It's the ___, stupid." --> "It's the blockchain, stupid." until they evolve but if it's funny and catchy it spreads viral.

Doge itself is a meme which spreads virally. That viral spread is the only reason Dogecoin has any success. The Bitshares community has some memes of it's own which came from this community, like the the DAC, the whole concept of snapshots, coins as shares, Bitcoin mining inflation as a security tax. The problem is these memes are all highly technical memes that only spread about the most elite programmers while the casual users don't really care about that.

A meme generator generates new memes continuously then over time the strongest memes become viral and spread.



« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:15:55 PM by luckybit »
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 12:11:26 PM »
"Share a Bit of stupid", seems fitting relative to what's so often are memes.

"If it can be said, it can be said without a meme."

Tip the waiter, I'll be over here.  ;D
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 12:19:02 PM »
"Share a Bit of stupid", seems fitting relative to what's so often are memes.

"If it can be said, it can be said without a meme."

Tip the waiter, I'll be over here.  ;D

Memes are vehicles to pass ideas and suggestions to the hosts they infect. So it's not enough just to have a meme which is funny and catchy, but it also has to pass on a valuable new concept in it's DNA.

And please no more technical memes. We gotta convince people that Bitshares is more than just a piece of software.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 12:24:59 PM »
Go ahead. lets collect some memes (text, description)
http://pad.xeroc.org/p/Memes
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Offline gamey

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 12:27:31 PM »
This idea is to generate memes. Documentation isn't really hard to generate as anyone who can speak english can write documentation. Viral memes are extremely difficult to generate yet extremely powerful. Not enough effort is going into creating these sorts of memes in this community so having an incentivised meme generator should be the ideal solution.

Any ideas on how to create one?

As far as creating docs, a person still has to know and comprehend whatever it is they are documenting etc.  It is all about time invested and creating a system to pay people fairly for their time.   I'm not sure memes are more skill than luck.  Documentation still requires someone actually doing it.  You can get stoner kids photoshopping up memes all day for free TBH.  There is definitely some skill though.  Perhaps just paying people for quantity works, because it creates momentum as everyone tries to out do each other on the same theme.

Unfortunately I think Protoshares/Bitshares is a bit too serious for memes.  I'm still interested in the meta idea though.  Different content has different needs etc.  In documentation, you want to incentivize people to continue editing and refining.  You could make a crowd sourced project that actually pays the crowd by how much each person contributes, with the chain keeping all the edits and revisions and their attributions etc.

I think memes would work better for DACs when they are released.  At this point, you're more or less just targeting developers.

Either way, both ideas have more in common than you might think.  You have a requirement for content, then people produce it, it is voted on, and people are paid in shares.  I'm still trying to understand the economics behind these things and how that effects requirements. 

There was another guy who posted something similar about DND, but he wished to produce DND campaigns and pay the players.  I'm sure many others have had similar thoughts.  I'd like to see this sort of stuff hashed out in relation to the Bitshares toolkit.

edit - If you want people to come up with memes, then that seems like a different discussion IMO.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:42:14 PM by gamey »
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 12:42:07 PM »
As far as creating docs, a person still has to know and comprehend whatever it is they are documenting etc.
The Bitshares team can use some of their budget to pay bounties for documentation. Any of us could do that job. Memes on the other hand are not just a matter of comprehension. Memes are carefully designed with a specific purpose (to be as infectious as possible).

It is all about time invested and creating a system to pay people fairly for their time. 
I agree with that but for documentation a bounty would work. Memes take a lot more thought than just writing a step by step guide. Memes are designed and are a lot like viruses which infect people with ideas.
I'm not sure memes are more skill than luck.
Learn about memetic programming/memetic algorithms, it's not luck at all. Linguistics, memetics, framing, suggestion, all of that is skill. If you think it's luck then that is your opinion but I've seen how memes are designed and know it's a process which requires skill.

Documentation still requires someone actually doing it.  You can get stoner kids photoshopping up memes all day for free TBH.
Okay go get these stoner kids to design some great memes. See if you can do that.
I'm sure you can also get some of them to write documentation because that is a lot easier than an effective meme. Anyone can make up a meme which isn't very effective but it's hard to create a meme which people find appealing, amusing, funny, enough to actually share and play with. If you think otherwise show me a lucky meme.
There is definitely some skill.  Perhaps just paying people for quantity works, because it creates momentum as everyone tries to out do each other on the same theme.
It's a lot of skill. Have you heard of Frank Luntz? How you frame things is very important.
This requires you have a large enough vocabulary to choose appealing words, and you have to pay close attention to how the word sounds in people's heads, as well as how their subconscious will visualize the metaphor. That is why I had to correct some of the word choices that the Bitshares team was talking about using like "Trustee" which is a terrible word choice. Delegate was settled on for a reason and I don't think it was luck.

Unfortunately I think Protoshares is a bit too serious for memes.  I'm still interested in the meta idea though.  Different content has different needs etc.
I disagree. Humor is something people remember. Why do you think comedy central has news shows like Jon Stewert? Why is Bill Maher popular? Why do we remember stuff that comedians said for so many years as if we hear it yesterday but who of us remembers what was said on CSPAN?
  In documentation, you want to incentivize people to continue editing and refining.
It's the same with memes. The difference is that bad documentation can still be used. A bad meme on the other hand can completely destroy a product to the point where no one will ever touch it. Memes are far more powerful for certain things and while documentation is important it's not the documentation which attracts the casual users.

You want market cap? You gotta get the people who discover it through a joke. You can use a cryptoequity magazine to get the hardcore people.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:48:22 PM by luckybit »
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Offline gamey

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 12:55:17 PM »

Wow.  I dunno.  I see where this is going, not sure why I tried to engage your thoughts.

You wrote a lot of text that basically can be summed up as "Memes are very scientific, anyone can document".

I would say - there are effective and viral memes and then there are completely forgettable memes.

With documentation there is poorly written ineffective documentation and well written effective documentation.

I thought you were wanting to discuss how DACs can form quality content, not have a dick measuring contest.

I don't think there is any big science behind what 4chan meme takes off.  At least not in the way you are suggesting.  When you are creating memes as an ad, then it is a different story.  You talk like all memes have the same point.

PS -  In art class in HS, I along with another smart ass inadvertently created memes instead of collages.  I'd cut out some picture then write what I thought was a funny caption.  We made a big pile of them one day. This was before the web/modern internet.
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 01:21:30 PM »
In most cases memes might be originally proposed by one person but often it takes a group of people to analyze it for flaws in the design.

Documentation is similar because you do have to do spell check and other similar processes but with documentation one person can do the task on their own. There are word processors which do the spell check process. Memes have to be peer reviewed and just recklessly promoting the wrong memes can do damage.

You can generate memes using software but only as mutation or combination of old memes. You need a good meme already. So something like "It's the ___, stupid." you could really put anything to fill in that blank because it's a well designed meme. It's designed to mutate for years and that is why it's still around. So you can turn it into "It's the blockchain, stupid" and that is very likely to catch on too while also containing within it the subliminal association with the Democratic party (which you might not actually want but it's just an example of the suggestive properties). "Black to the future" is a meme with suggestive properties to a popular 1980s movie so it makes an impression that Blackcoin is retro good. The Occupy movement had the 99% and the 1%.

There is a lot of power in words, and communication is difficult but rewarding when done right.

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« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 01:34:50 PM by luckybit »
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Offline gamey

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 01:32:37 PM »

Being a fellow developer who did a code review of Maidsafe, I'm sure you know how often libraries/api/toolkits completely lack effective documentation and how much it can slow a person down.  This is especially true with open source type stuff.  And if we are looking for documentation on something to begin with, then it pretty much follows that most people won't be qualified to produce said documentation.

The question to me still is 'How do we use bitshares and bitshares toolkit to incentivize people to produce quality content ?'   Unfortunately I came to the wrong thread.  My apologies, Luckybit.  Have a nice day and I'm gonna look into the Jon Stewart thing....
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Offline luckybit

Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 01:54:40 PM »

Being a fellow developer who did a code review of Maidsafe, I'm sure you know how often libraries/api/toolkits completely lack effective documentation and how much it can slow a person down.  This is especially true with open source type stuff.  And if we are looking for documentation on something to begin with, then it pretty much follows that most people won't be qualified to produce said documentation.

The question to me still is 'How do we use bitshares and bitshares toolkit to incentivize people to produce quality content ?'   Unfortunately I came to the wrong thread.  My apologies, Luckybit.  Have a nice day and I'm gonna look into the Jon Stewart thing....

No need to apologize. If you're asking whether the whole process can be turned into a DAC using the Bitshares toolkit to incentivize meme generation then the answer is yes.

To all the other stuff, that isn't really the focus of this thread as it doesn't pertain to creating a decentralized meme generator. If we can do Bitshares music I'm sure we can do Bitshares memes.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Let's create a decentraized meme generator.
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 02:04:25 PM »

Being a fellow developer who did a code review of Maidsafe, I'm sure you know how often libraries/api/toolkits completely lack effective documentation and how much it can slow a person down.  This is especially true with open source type stuff.  And if we are looking for documentation on something to begin with, then it pretty much follows that most people won't be qualified to produce said documentation.

The question to me still is 'How do we use bitshares and bitshares toolkit to incentivize people to produce quality content ?'   Unfortunately I came to the wrong thread.  My apologies, Luckybit.  Have a nice day and I'm gonna look into the Jon Stewart thing....

No need to apologize. If you're asking whether the whole process can be turned into a DAC using the Bitshares toolkit to incentivize meme generation then the answer is yes.

To all the other stuff, that isn't really the focus of this thread as it doesn't pertain to creating a decentralized meme generator. If we can do Bitshares music I'm sure we can do Bitshares memes.

With Bitshares Music people generate content at their own direction.  With documentation and memes, the content is requested to fill a certain need.

Perhaps that is how Bitshares Music could work too, but I would be surprised.  In Music you are selling a product. With the other 2 you are employing people to generate content.
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