Author Topic: What do you guys think about Darkcoin?  (Read 8459 times)

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Offline jae208

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This is always an interesting debate.

Although darkcoin was not premined, there is clear evidence of an instamine during the beginning. Also the technology that has been the foundation of the coins hype (masternodes) has been inherently flawed. There was talk of implementing cryptonotes "ring signatures" into the project but these coins operate on entirely different algorithms- ring signatures are not merely implemented. I believe satoshi himself would struggle with the task.

The next two coins of interest are Monero and Bytecoin although both possessing very questionable emission curves. Instamining in my opinion is unacceptable.

The community answered with the solution of Quazarcoin. An emission curve that closely mimics bitcoin itself but much smoother (very fair indeed). This coin in my opinion is extremely undervalued. I do not like to talk about other coins in bitshares postings (unless constructive) but as you asked I will share my knowledge. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.0

Take into consideration both monero and quasar are both in the early stages before the marketing push. As a serious investor- my money is on quasar hedging 10-2 monero.

Community rivalry is strong in the anon sector and FUD/smear campaigns are in full swing. Do the maths and stick to the facts.


Quasar
Appx 100k coins
Market price 0.0052
=
Appx 520btc cap ($270,400USD)

Monero
Appx 800k coins
Market price 0.006
=
Appx 4800btc ($2,500,00USD)

PS. I am also eyeing off the ridiculously low AGS at the moment. The greatest investments are made where others have turned a blind eye. AGS are blue chips in crypto.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I will take a look.  +5%
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Offline jae208

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Darkcoin is doing good at the moment. I wonder how high this boom in Darkcoin will go? You guys are very smart on here which is why I even ask questions like these on this forum. Is this coin really as hard to trace as they claim it is? The claims on their website seem a little too good to be true IMO though. Any thoughts?

DARKCOIN DETAILS
0.00000% Pre-mined

Super secure hashing algorithm: 11 rounds of scientific hashing functions (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo)

Block reward: controlled by 2222222/(((Difficulty+2600)/9)^2)

Block generation: 2.5 minutes

Difficulty: retargets every minute using Dark Gravity Wave

Supply: estimated 22 million maximum coins

Superior transaction anonymity using DarkSend: RC1 testing on MainNet

http://www.darkcoin.io/intro.html

Darkcoin is backed by fear. Fear of loss of privacy, and most likely fear of the government.

But if you look closely at it, it's nothing more than good marketing. The reason I'm not behind Darkcoin but I am behind Blackcoin is because Blackcoin has marketing which can reach all demographics. Blackcoin is marketed as being cool.

I haven't looked at Blackcoin but I will look at it since you mentioned it.

Remember the Sega Genesis had Sonic the Hedgehog and it sold so well because Sonic was considered cool? That is what Blackcoin uses for marketing. Dogecoin uses being a cute meme and psychology.

So I will say Darkcoin is a well marketed coin but it's ultimately not a marketing strategy which will last. We have Darkwallet already, and we have CoinJoin, so what problem is Darkcoin solving which wasn't already solved?

Do you think that it may be because people are just too lazy to take additional steps and instead prefer a coin with everything they want integrated already? When I think of something like Litecoin or most alt coins they aren't really solving or improving upon Bitcoin.

The only problem Darkcoin has solved is marketing. If your goal is privacy do you really need all these fancy mixers and elaborate schemes? I don't think so. I think if you want to duplicate this kind of marketing then you create the most complicated sounding privacy protecting scheme you can, 7 proxies, bumping off of satellites in space, or whatever.

The truth is the only thing you need for privacy is to never reuse the same key. Satoshi put it in the original whitepaper and all this other stuff is unnecessary if you design the coin by default not to allow bad habits. You design fault tolerance into the coin itself, similar to how you have bathroom doors which close themselves and open themselves so people don't have to touch them after washing their hands.

Oh yeah and DRK is Proof of Work so that means it's obsolete at launch. Maybe if they were to upgrade to Proof of Stake I would give it's developer more credit.


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Offline solaaire

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thanks for the insight johncitizen. i wont pretend to know much about the nuances of these algorithms but i do find it very interesting that darkcoin is performing so well in light of an instamine and a flawed design...

quazar looks cool. i havent mined anything in a while but i just might have to put the ol' CPU to work again!

Offline johncitizen

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This is always an interesting debate.

Although darkcoin was not premined, there is clear evidence of an instamine during the beginning. Also the technology that has been the foundation of the coins hype (masternodes) has been inherently flawed. There was talk of implementing cryptonotes "ring signatures" into the project but these coins operate on entirely different algorithms- ring signatures are not merely implemented. I believe satoshi himself would struggle with the task.

The next two coins of interest are Monero and Bytecoin although both possessing very questionable emission curves. Instamining in my opinion is unacceptable.

The community answered with the solution of Quazarcoin. An emission curve that closely mimics bitcoin itself but much smoother (very fair indeed). This coin in my opinion is extremely undervalued. I do not like to talk about other coins in bitshares postings (unless constructive) but as you asked I will share my knowledge. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.0

Take into consideration both monero and quasar are both in the early stages before the marketing push. As a serious investor- my money is on quasar hedging 10-2 monero.

Community rivalry is strong in the anon sector and FUD/smear campaigns are in full swing. Do the maths and stick to the facts.


Quasar
Appx 100k coins
Market price 0.0052
=
Appx 520btc cap ($270,400USD)

Monero
Appx 800k coins
Market price 0.006
=
Appx 4800btc ($2,500,00USD)

PS. I am also eyeing off the ridiculously low AGS at the moment. The greatest investments are made where others have turned a blind eye. AGS are blue chips in crypto.

Offline mint chocolate chip

Let’s start answering from the most stupid (me) to the smartest.

No matter the technology, you have missed that train, i.e. too risky to invest or speculate at this almost vertical price increase…

Do you think it is increasing in value because people believe that it is a more anonymous coin or simply because they don't want to miss out on the boom that is currently happening?

It's going to get dumped.

I'm waiting for it to get dumped so I can get some  8)

My foray into DRK started yesterday when I bought a bitcoins worth, today I sold them all for a net of -0.033!!!

Offline jae208

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Let’s start answering from the most stupid (me) to the smartest.

No matter the technology, you have missed that train, i.e. too risky to invest or speculate at this almost vertical price increase…

Do you think it is increasing in value because people believe that it is a more anonymous coin or simply because they don't want to miss out on the boom that is currently happening?

It's going to get dumped.

I'm waiting for it to get dumped so I can get some  8)
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Offline jae208

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I am riding high with DRK.  It is the only coin that I know of where the dev is committed to the addition of important new features over time, eschewing the "no-hard-forks" "stability" that most devs try to enforce.  Most devs act as "hands-off gods" who code their coin, release it into the wild and subsequently only make critical security upgrades when necessary.  The idea of a coin whose very ideas are not set in stone, is in itself unique.  (In theory, Bitcoin and others allow for continued development, but their pace of development is laughably slow.... by the time Bitcoin implements a new feature, it will have existed in an altcoin for months if not years.)

The idea of "Masternodes" who earn 10% of all mined coins, and which act as coin-mixers, and which must be seeded with 1000 DRK (locked while the Masternode is running) is actually kind of similar to the "Trustees" in dPoS. 

Clearly they are doing something right if there are similarities between us and them.

The 1000 DRK requirement has also created a positive feedback loop where the coins are effectively removed from the market, driving the price up, which in turn makes the Masternodes more profitable because they earn new coins daily without mining.

The anonymity features are also great, of course, and what everybody is excited about right now.  But I will say that I am at least as excited by the developer's competence and commitment to continued active development as I am by any of the existing features.  It is not the typical "release new version only when flaws are found" coin.  I fully expect DRK to implement some Bitcoin-2.0 features within a year (after all the anonymity features have been fully implemented).  AFAIK, Counterparty could be easily adapted to work on top of DRK, and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be fully supported by DRK itself (as opposed to the sometimes oppositional relationship between XCP and BTC devs).
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Offline jae208

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Quote from: xeroc

My guess ... people are dumb and mix up darkwallet, darkmarket and darkcoin...

If that is true let's "rename" pts2 to Protodark or Darkshares, dark sounds like DAC anyway   :)

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Offline solaaire

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The truth is the only thing you need for privacy is to never reuse the same key. Satoshi put it in the original whitepaper and all this other stuff is unnecessary if you design the coin by default not to allow bad habits. You design fault tolerance into the coin itself, similar to how you have bathroom doors which close themselves and open themselves so people don't have to touch them after washing their hands.
I feel you here, good design can go a long way
Oh yeah and DRK is Proof of Work so that means it's obsolete at launch. Maybe if they were to upgrade to Proof of Stake I would give it's developer more credit.

i dont know if i agree with this. PoW attracts miners which seems to help kickstart crypto markets in their infancy. also bitbadger pointed out that the development team is pretty active. PoW probably won't be around forever but a good development team could probably migrate the existing blockchain to a more sustainable consensus algorithm, similar to how pts is migrating to pts2
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 01:56:19 pm by solaaire »

Offline luckybit

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Darkcoin is doing good at the moment. I wonder how high this boom in Darkcoin will go? You guys are very smart on here which is why I even ask questions like these on this forum. Is this coin really as hard to trace as they claim it is? The claims on their website seem a little too good to be true IMO though. Any thoughts?

DARKCOIN DETAILS
0.00000% Pre-mined

Super secure hashing algorithm: 11 rounds of scientific hashing functions (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo)

Block reward: controlled by 2222222/(((Difficulty+2600)/9)^2)

Block generation: 2.5 minutes

Difficulty: retargets every minute using Dark Gravity Wave

Supply: estimated 22 million maximum coins

Superior transaction anonymity using DarkSend: RC1 testing on MainNet

http://www.darkcoin.io/intro.html

Darkcoin is backed by fear. Fear of loss of privacy, and most likely fear of the government.

But if you look closely at it, it's nothing more than good marketing. The reason I'm not behind Darkcoin but I am behind Blackcoin is because Blackcoin has marketing which can reach all demographics. Blackcoin is marketed as being cool.

Remember the Sega Genesis had Sonic the Hedgehog and it sold so well because Sonic was considered cool? That is what Blackcoin uses for marketing. Dogecoin uses being a cute meme and psychology.

So I will say Darkcoin is a well marketed coin but it's ultimately not a marketing strategy which will last. We have Darkwallet already, and we have CoinJoin, so what problem is Darkcoin solving which wasn't already solved?

The only problem Darkcoin has solved is marketing. If your goal is privacy do you really need all these fancy mixers and elaborate schemes? I don't think so. I think if you want to duplicate this kind of marketing then you create the most complicated sounding privacy protecting scheme you can, 7 proxies, bumping off of satellites in space, or whatever.

The truth is the only thing you need for privacy is to never reuse the same key. Satoshi put it in the original whitepaper and all this other stuff is unnecessary if you design the coin by default not to allow bad habits. You design fault tolerance into the coin itself, similar to how you have bathroom doors which close themselves and open themselves so people don't have to touch them after washing their hands.

Oh yeah and DRK is Proof of Work so that means it's obsolete at launch. Maybe if they were to upgrade to Proof of Stake I would give it's developer more credit.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 11:00:53 am by luckybit »
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Offline bitbadger

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I am riding high with DRK.  It is the only coin that I know of where the dev is committed to the addition of important new features over time, eschewing the "no-hard-forks" "stability" that most devs try to enforce.  Most devs act as "hands-off gods" who code their coin, release it into the wild and subsequently only make critical security upgrades when necessary.  The idea of a coin whose very ideas are not set in stone, is in itself unique.  (In theory, Bitcoin and others allow for continued development, but their pace of development is laughably slow.... by the time Bitcoin implements a new feature, it will have existed in an altcoin for months if not years.)

The idea of "Masternodes" who earn 10% of all mined coins, and which act as coin-mixers, and which must be seeded with 1000 DRK (locked while the Masternode is running) is actually kind of similar to the "Trustees" in dPoS.  The 1000 DRK requirement has also created a positive feedback loop where the coins are effectively removed from the market, driving the price up, which in turn makes the Masternodes more profitable because they earn new coins daily without mining.

The anonymity features are also great, of course, and what everybody is excited about right now.  But I will say that I am at least as excited by the developer's competence and commitment to continued active development as I am by any of the existing features.  It is not the typical "release new version only when flaws are found" coin.  I fully expect DRK to implement some Bitcoin-2.0 features within a year (after all the anonymity features have been fully implemented).  AFAIK, Counterparty could be easily adapted to work on top of DRK, and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be fully supported by DRK itself (as opposed to the sometimes oppositional relationship between XCP and BTC devs).
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Offline xeroc

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Offline liondani

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Quote from: xeroc

My guess ... people are dumb and mix up darkwallet, darkmarket and darkcoin...

If that is true let's "rename" pts2 to Protodark or Darkshares, dark sounds like DAC anyway   :)

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Offline fuzzy

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Offline xeroc

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X11 and all other hashing chains are not more secure just because ... I can remember a dev telling that the contrary is the case ... cant find link atm though...

My guess ... people are dumb and mix up darkwallet, darkmarket and darkcoin...

The only thing drk offers is a little more anonymity using an algorithm (darksend) which is btw not open sourced yet