Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?  (Read 1143 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline coolspeed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
    • My Blog
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« on: June 05, 2014, 11:02:56 AM »

Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:07:42 AM by coolspeed »
Please vote for  delegate.coolspeed    dac.coolspeed
BTS account: coolspeed
Sina Weibo:@coolspeed

Come-from-Beyond

  • Guest
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2014, 11:41:01 AM »
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.

TF is not implemented completely yet. If DPOS gives a way to predict next miner with high probability then the answer is YES, I believe.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12337
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 11:45:29 AM »
in DPOS there are no Miners but Delegates .. the next delegate is fixed for one complete round .. after a round the order of delegates is randomly drawn again.. over and over .. round for round

I'd say, depending on the connection/network of the delegates DPOS can be really fast .. in the testnet block are faster than 30 secs
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Come-from-Beyond

  • Guest
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 12:09:16 PM »
I'd say, depending on the connection/network of the delegates DPOS can be really fast .. in the testnet block are faster than 30 secs

TPS is more about throughput than latency.

clout

  • Guest
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2014, 12:16:57 PM »
Dan has said that dpos can scale to the size of visas 10,000 tps. I think nxt can handle 1,000 tps with tf, so yes dpos is better.


Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12337
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2014, 12:34:37 PM »
Dan has said that dpos can scale to the size of visas 10,000 tps. I think nxt can handle 1,000 tps with tf, so yes dpos is better.
Still unproven though
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

clout

  • Guest
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 12:55:06 PM »
Obviously. But when you think about the fact that bitcoin network constitutes largest super computer in the world, the  transition from using that level of computational resources for pointless work to using it for increased network capacity I'd say that dpos can scale well beyond visa in the future.


Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12337
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2014, 01:05:05 PM »
Obviously. But when you think about the fact that bitcoin network constitutes largest super computer in the world, the  transition from using that level of computational resources for pointless work to using it for increased network capacity I'd say that dpos can scale well beyond visa in the future.
+5% (obviously ;D )
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline toast

Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 01:31:35 PM »
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.

TF is not implemented completely yet. If DPOS gives a way to predict next miner with high probability then the answer is YES, I believe.

The exact order for delegates is known between every shuffle. So except for between shuffles you always know the next delegate with certainty at least 30s in advance.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2014, 01:54:33 PM »
This is an issue of trust once you get to 10K/sec because the bandwidth required is no longer able to be supported by a decentralized network.   However, DPOS allows for centralization of delegates without losing the property of decentralized control.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • View Profile
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2014, 06:13:43 PM »
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.

TF is not implemented completely yet. If DPOS gives a way to predict next miner with high probability then the answer is YES, I believe.

The exact order for delegates is known between every shuffle. So except for between shuffles you always know the next delegate with certainty at least 30s in advance.

So the order of delegates is not known in advance for the next 100 blocks and instead only for the next block? After every block the next delegates is selected randomly?
Say there is only one delegate left from the 100 that has not yet been selected to find a block then he will be the one to find the next block?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2014, 06:18:40 PM »
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.

TF is not implemented completely yet. If DPOS gives a way to predict next miner with high probability then the answer is YES, I believe.

The exact order for delegates is known between every shuffle. So except for between shuffles you always know the next delegate with certainty at least 30s in advance.

So the order of delegates is not known in advance for the next 100 blocks and instead only for the next block? After every block the next delegates is selected randomly?
Say there is only one delegate left from the 100 that has not yet been selected to find a block then he will be the one to find the next block?

Every 100 blocks there is 1 shuffle that decides the next 100 blocks.  So you always know on average 50 blocks in advance.   Sometimes there is only 30 seconds and sometimes there is 3000 seconds depending upon where your delegate ended up in the shuffle.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline luckybit

Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2014, 07:55:21 PM »
This is an issue of trust once you get to 10K/sec because the bandwidth required is no longer able to be supported by a decentralized network.   However, DPOS allows for centralization of delegates without losing the property of decentralized control.
+5%
This should be a major marking talking point.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • View Profile
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2014, 07:59:16 AM »
Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?

TPS = Transactions Per Second

Neither do I know whether NXT already implemented TF.

TF is not implemented completely yet. If DPOS gives a way to predict next miner with high probability then the answer is YES, I believe.

The exact order for delegates is known between every shuffle. So except for between shuffles you always know the next delegate with certainty at least 30s in advance.

So the order of delegates is not known in advance for the next 100 blocks and instead only for the next block? After every block the next delegates is selected randomly?
Say there is only one delegate left from the 100 that has not yet been selected to find a block then he will be the one to find the next block?

Every 100 blocks there is 1 shuffle that decides the next 100 blocks.  So you always know on average 50 blocks in advance.   Sometimes there is only 30 seconds and sometimes there is 3000 seconds depending upon where your delegate ended up in the shuffle.
Thanks.
So every delegate finds the same amount of blocks and gets the same reward as long as he is in the top 100, right?
Wouldn't shuffling after every block with the probability based on votes received make it harder to collude because a double spender would have to know the order of the next delegates?
 

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12337
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Can the TPS of DPOS be as high as NXT Transparent Forging?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2014, 08:47:31 AM »
So every delegate finds the same amount of blocks and gets the same reward as long as he is in the top 100, right?
No .. reward is fees-only .. so depends on the amount of transactions in the block .. but on 'average' all can get the same
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

 

Google+