What Coins are worth DAC Air Drops?

[fuzzy]

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic.

These figures are a few months old but -

SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss)
AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss)
SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000...  (99.9% Shareholder loss)
MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000...  (96% Shareholder loss)

However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.

Exactly !  With numbers to back it up.  I came to this thread to read the new posts and add my additional 2 cents, but have a similar opinion.

I think most airdrops will end up with people who just dump their shares.  The airdrop needs an additional component that at least differentiates the people who care vs the people who will auto-dump.  If 80% of the people dump their shares, has the DAC gained value ? (rhetorical question)  At first I was more for the idea but as time has went on I've changed my opinion.  I like the idea of a random chance, but not one tied into purchases.  If there would be a way for a person to have to check to see fi they have received shares and not have them by default.  (That means they're at least slightly more motivated given that they're doing something with a possible outcome of 0..  vs guaranteed money given a typical airdrop) 

So Luckybit's suggestion is good in that it differentiates people who care, but it also is just another way of purchasing shares with a random component.  If you could find a way to actually discern motivated investors vs people who will just immediately dump then we'd have a solution.


After reading the faucet idea I'm far more interested in that.  We really want people who are motivated to use the DAC.  DNS/Namecoin is an obvious fit, but what outside of that fits ?  Will Namecoin people dump their shares because they want to protect Namecoin?  Lots of unknowns on the behavior end of things.

Perhaps a faucet that is tied into the addresses of other coins.  Then from there add a few other parameters to keep people from spreading their money out into different addresses.  Then you have a hybrid faucet and airdrop !

They download the DAC, get an address for receiving their shares.  Then if there was a standard way for us to verify they were in control of certain addresses of the airdropped coin, they put that in there.  The address would likely need a certain sized balance at a certain date, or the person could just move the money and use the faucet again.  There are lots of combinations of verification parameters but I suspect this idea might be the best way to "airdrop".

But then I ask myself why bother even having the airdrop to a certain coin?  A public faucet would be better.  Perhaps the airdrop-faucet could reward slightly higher amounts ?  Or at least make a certain coin feel more involved if there was a faucet exclusive to certain coins ?

Anyway.. just my rambling 2 cents.

These terrible numbers do not reflect the lack of value in the coin due to the drop, necessarily.  It could also be a function of the fact that there are literally almost no services tied to the accepting of these coins.  For instance, if "sharedropped" on mazacoin, the bitshares Lotto would be working with a demographic outside normal gambling laws (which means they have fewer legal concerns with respect to running a Lotto DAC Delegates).  It might also mean that the incentive for cash to crypto services through Mazacoin (and perhaps even bitshares for being an "ally") in these areas as it would be in their benefit.  They are primed for combustion if the right alliances are made between Dev teams working on similar problems that would make them perfect candidates to supplement the bitshares ecosystem as it grows up itself.  These services that could be launched, and strategically placed demographics with certain attributes will fill gaps in the ecosystem and create a flowing economy...then the value rises for all boats.

[Empirical1]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

  I was thinking if we did sharedrops, that rather than giving them away they'd have to complete a marketing task and your suggestion sounds great.

If there was a way to make them Add/Promote Bitshares on Twitter, or Facebook etc. that could be good too.

I also like Sharedrops instead of airdrops.

I also like the Easter egg idea, like every Xth download has a much larger amount that gets split between the person that downloaded it and person that referred them.

Sharedrops are cool.  Now let's talk Dynamicly Adaptive Sharedrops!  (Anyone who captures a Delegate spot captures an income "spigot" they can choose to redirect in a thousand different ways ... whatever it takes to capture and retain votes.  (So we have created "smart spigots" (controlled by the best and brightest human promoters selected in a Darwinian competition to attract new voters (bitshareholders)))). 

These "smart spigots" will naturally adapt over time to do what the industry consensus demands.  So developers don't really have to brilliantly cast the ideal sharedrop into the genesis block.  They just need to make it sufficiently profitable to be a delegate that the best 101 smart spigots just naturally appear.

  Yes that all sounds good. I really like it.
It will be very interesting to watch how the theory plays out in practice.

[Stan]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

  I was thinking if we did sharedrops, that rather than giving them away they'd have to complete a marketing task and your suggestion sounds great.

If there was a way to make them Add/Promote Bitshares on Twitter, or Facebook etc. that could be good too.

I also like Sharedrops instead of airdrops.

I also like the Easter egg idea, like every Xth download has a much larger amount that gets split between the person that downloaded it and person that referred them.

Sharedrops are cool.  Now let's talk Dynamicly Adaptive Sharedrops!  (Anyone who captures a Delegate spot captures an income "spigot" they can choose to redirect in a thousand different ways ... whatever it takes to capture and retain votes.  (So we have created "smart spigots" (controlled by the best and brightest human promoters selected in a Darwinian competition to attract new voters (bitshareholders)))). 

These "smart spigots" will naturally adapt over time to do what the industry consensus demands.  So developers don't really have to brilliantly cast the ideal sharedrop into the genesis block.  They just need to make it sufficiently profitable to be a delegate that the best 101 smart spigots just naturally appear.

[Empirical1]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

  I was thinking if we did sharedrops, that rather than giving them away they'd have to complete a marketing task and your suggestion sounds great.

If there was a way to make them Add/Promote Bitshares on Twitter, or Facebook etc. that could be good too.

I also like Sharedrops instead of airdrops.

I also like the Easter egg idea, like every Xth download has a much larger amount that gets split between the person that downloaded it and person that referred them. 

[CLains]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

A month ago I might have paused at this, and said something about promotional value, but since then pretty much all of the airdrops have failed in proportion to the amounts it has given away freely.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Something like this. 

[luckybit]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

In that case, could we just pre-load the wallet or Keyhotee with something? Anyone interested enough to download it would be rewarded. That also might help protect against people doing this multiple times using multiple addresses, e-mails, or whatever you are using to track them. I love referral bonuses; as far as I'm concerned you could go wildly viral that way. Would it be possible to build some standard code for that which DACs could apply?

Wasn't this how Elon Musk made PayPal go viral?
http://www.quora.com/PayPal/How-did-PayPals-early-viral-growth-work

Google's Gmail too. As well as every successful video game system that I can remember. Even the PC had software included which was valuable. 

How about some eastereggs too?  Willy Wonka's golden ticket? There are ways to do this where the participants wouldn't know about these surprises in advance. The only way to have a chance would be to continue participating. The way you participate could improve your chances too because how people participate reveals a lot about what they are interested in.

[Stan]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

In that case, could we just pre-load the wallet or Keyhotee with something? Anyone interested enough to download it would be rewarded. That also might help protect against people doing this multiple times using multiple addresses, e-mails, or whatever you are using to track them. I love referral bonuses; as far as I'm concerned you could go wildly viral that way. Would it be possible to build some standard code for that which DACs could apply?

Wasn't this how Elon Musk made PayPal go viral?
http://www.quora.com/PayPal/How-did-PayPals-early-viral-growth-work

[Stan]

You guys are making great contributions to BitShares Airdrop Theory.  What would you add to the brief summary of key concepts I just published here?

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/

Perhaps labeling it "Sharedrops" would be more marketable than Airdrops.
Just a suggestion.

Airdrop is good for explaining the overall general concept but drop what? Currency? Or shares?

From here you would have different types such as coordinated, targeted, randomized, conditional, etc.

That name is so good, I'm going to change the article now. 

[donkeypong]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

In that case, could we just pre-load the wallet or Keyhotee with something? Anyone interested enough to download it would be rewarded. That also might help protect against people doing this multiple times using multiple addresses, e-mails, or whatever you are using to track them. I love referral bonuses; as far as I'm concerned you could go wildly viral that way. Would it be possible to build some standard code for that which DACs could apply?

[Troglodactyl]

...

I think most airdrops will end up with people who just dump their shares.  The airdrop needs an additional component that at least differentiates the people who care vs the people who will auto-dump.  If 80% of the people dump their shares, has the DAC gained value ? (rhetorical question)  At first I was more for the idea but as time has went on I've changed my opinion.  I like the idea of a random chance, but not one tied into purchases.  If there would be a way for a person to have to check to see fi they have received shares and not have them by default.  (That means they're at least slightly more motivated given that they're doing something with a possible outcome of 0..  vs guaranteed money given a typical airdrop) 

So Luckybit's suggestion is good in that it differentiates people who care, but it also is just another way of purchasing shares with a random component.  If you could find a way to actually discern motivated investors vs people who will just immediately dump then we'd have a solution.
...

I think elsewhere I suggested snapshots onto vanity-gen'd addresses that say "BTS" or some other recognizable marketing label.  That way the stake airdropped is proportional to the amount of the target token symbolically used to advertise for us, which is at least a slight test of interest/commitment.

[luckybit]

You guys are making great contributions to BitShares Airdrop Theory.  What would you add to the brief summary of key concepts I just published here?

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/

Perhaps labeling it "Sharedrops" would be more marketable than Airdrops.
Just a suggestion.

Airdrop is good for explaining the overall general concept but drop what? Currency? Or shares?

From here you would have different types such as coordinated, targeted, randomized, conditional, etc.

[bytemaster]

A thought on airdrops...  don't give money away, just make it easy to get.

For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.

Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks.  Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.

Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. 

I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS

[Stan]

You guys are making great contributions to BitShares Airdrop Theory.  What would you add to the brief summary of key concepts I just published here?

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/

[donkeypong]

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic.

These figures are a few months old but -

SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss)
AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss)
SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000...  (99.9% Shareholder loss)
MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000...  (96% Shareholder loss)

However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.

Yes, those were drops to the general population of a region, which has no coin savvy. You are correct that a coin-targeted air drop would be much more effective.

[gamey]

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic.

These figures are a few months old but -

SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss)
AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss)
SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000...  (99.9% Shareholder loss)
MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000...  (96% Shareholder loss)

However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.

Exactly !  With numbers to back it up.  I came to this thread to read the new posts and add my additional 2 cents, but have a similar opinion.

I think most airdrops will end up with people who just dump their shares.  The airdrop needs an additional component that at least differentiates the people who care vs the people who will auto-dump.  If 80% of the people dump their shares, has the DAC gained value ? (rhetorical question)  At first I was more for the idea but as time has went on I've changed my opinion.  I like the idea of a random chance, but not one tied into purchases.  If there would be a way for a person to have to check to see fi they have received shares and not have them by default.  (That means they're at least slightly more motivated given that they're doing something with a possible outcome of 0..  vs guaranteed money given a typical airdrop) 

So Luckybit's suggestion is good in that it differentiates people who care, but it also is just another way of purchasing shares with a random component.  If you could find a way to actually discern motivated investors vs people who will just immediately dump then we'd have a solution.


After reading the faucet idea I'm far more interested in that.  We really want people who are motivated to use the DAC.  DNS/Namecoin is an obvious fit, but what outside of that fits ?  Will Namecoin people dump their shares because they want to protect Namecoin?  Lots of unknowns on the behavior end of things.

Perhaps a faucet that is tied into the addresses of other coins.  Then from there add a few other parameters to keep people from spreading their money out into different addresses.  Then you have a hybrid faucet and airdrop !

They download the DAC, get an address for receiving their shares.  Then if there was a standard way for us to verify they were in control of certain addresses of the airdropped coin, they put that in there.  The address would likely need a certain sized balance at a certain date, or the person could just move the money and use the faucet again.  There are lots of combinations of verification parameters but I suspect this idea might be the best way to "airdrop".

But then I ask myself why bother even having the airdrop to a certain coin?  A public faucet would be better.  Perhaps the airdrop-faucet could reward slightly higher amounts ?  Or at least make a certain coin feel more involved if there was a faucet exclusive to certain coins ?

Anyway.. just my rambling 2 cents.

[Empirical1]

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic.

These figures are a few months old but -

SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss)
AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss)
SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000...  (99.9% Shareholder loss)
MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000...  (96% Shareholder loss)

However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.

[mf-tzo]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdf

Ok .. has 25 pages .. my fault

Not what in my mind but good try. Too much details and small letters. I will try to find some time and have a go to prepare what I am thinking..

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic, but to answer this, the original reason for posting it was to assess what coins were seen as most valuable to community members and what they have going for them that would make them "air drop worthy". 

Back on topic...If you ask me I value most an AGS air drop. This is the whole idea of supporting the development and give back from the devs once they release DACs. AGS for me should have the most of future DACs shares. I would wish for 60%.

Secondly of course PTS. Maybe 25%

3rd NXT. I don't have much there but I think we should support PoS coins and NXT is number 1 now. Maybe 5%? If Blackcoin gets on truck again maybe split this between blackcoin and NXT. My concern with Blackcoin is that it has a name that stigmatise and I don't see this to survive in the long term.

4th PPC. Zero stakes there but I like them and they hold tight on their stakes and when all the crap coins out there die PPC will still exist. Maybe 5%?

5th the devs themselves. The remaining 5%. The devs should have funds savings for evolving their DAC. My only concern with this idea is that the remaining crypto communities might see this as an opportunity to scream "premine" and throw dust to the DACs.

Nothing for Bitcoin, Litecoin and any PoW coin! Except maybe a small percentage to Doge coins because they are fun!

[fuzzy]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic, but to answer this, the original reason for posting it was to assess what coins were seen as most valuable to community members and what they have going for them that would make them "air drop worthy". 

The reason for this question is so those who are thinking about making DACs can take these coins into account when considering the synergy between the DAC and communities. 

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

[xeroc]

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdf

Ok .. has 25 pages .. my fault

[mf-tzo]

I don't know what black coin did...40 is a lot...max 20 pages or you lose them

[xeroc]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

for a presentation .. i remember blackcoin has some kind of "handbool" 40ish pages long

[mf-tzo]

Once we are ready please don't ignore the idea of professional ppt presentations to promote bitshares to outside crypto investors..marketing wise this will be more important than any airdrop

[luckybit]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

I endorse an Airdrop to NXT. Right now I don't see how Bitshares has a technological advantage to make it worth it to Airdrop to NXT but the idea isn't completely bad to have the option on the table. The same could be said about Mastercoin or Counterparty. In my opinion Airdrops work best when it gives something of value to the community and for NXT it wouldn't make more people buy NXT or Bitshares unless there is a NXTshares chain which can do some really unique things which cannot be done on NXT or on the main Bitshares chain.

But right now I don't think that kind of Airdrop makes sense right now because we actually should want this kind of competition early on. NXT is really pushing PoS technology and innovating and we want to promote that to promote the industry.

I just think that idea should be saved for a later time so that a negotiation can be made. I'm more the sort of person who doesn't think a reactive or defensive strategy makes sense when the market caps are so large that both Bitshares and NXT could become titans.

[gaba]

This thread is to ask for an answer to the questions: 

"Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"

None. You have PTS and AGS for airdropping.

[mf-tzo]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

[fuzzy]

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.

 In the end, the # of shares will be proportional to the amount of capital spent.  It is that simple.  I've proposed various ways to make it considerably more egalitarian if that is the goal.  No point in repeating them here though.  Perhaps a rehash when DACs are being released.

This really needs to be talked about as early as possible, though.  IMO, the Lottery DAC could be cloned and air dropped on multiple communities to honor their innovation (in coding, marketing, vision...etc (maybe using coingecko.com?)).  The Lotto DAC and each of its clones gains not only the value added by DPOS for cost of security, and provably fair, but it could also reward people with tokens redeemable for other, upcoming Invictus DACs (some coins might even donate to these DACs to have their "coins" and "shares" as part of the reward!).  It would be a promotion that adds value for all sides as I can see it, it also ignites the kind of clone competition that only 3 coins have that I can think of at this point--Bitcoin, Litecoin and Peercoin--and all of them are (I think) inferior.

As for Lucky.  I've always had a brain crush on you too man...you like to think outside the box and I love floating in mental free space (maybe that doesnt sound so good :O).

[gamey]

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.

 In the end, the # of shares will be proportional to the amount of capital spent.  It is that simple.  I've proposed various ways to make it considerably more egalitarian if that is the goal.  No point in repeating them here though.  Perhaps a rehash when DACs are being released.

[donkeypong]

I hereby endorse luckybit for high political office. Those ideas are freaking genius, especially the Blackshares merger. Aside from niche demographics (e.g. Namecoin for the DNS DAC), the people I would most want to bring into this would be other Proof of Stake holders such as Blackcoin and Peercoin. They are patient people who see the big picture. In the past, I also said Doge and Reddcoin for social marketing reasons, but my opinion is evolving on those. I just don't think most of them are in it for the long haul, so I don't care whether they're included or not (though I'd be OK with it if they were included).

Also, fuz's point is important that DAC developers/owners are free to do as they please as long as they honor the social contract. They still have as much as 80% with which to work. If they're smart, they'll air drop, because if done right this will virtually ensure their DAC product's success. And yes, the market will pick the winners.

I hope that both Invictus and the various DAC developers/owners take time to read this thread and understand luckybit's suggestions.

Edit: The lottery posts keep on coming. Lucky's initial posts in this thread were brilliant. The lottery thing I need to read and understand better, but it may be viable also.

[fuzzy]

Rags to Riches stories make headlines for coins...

[luckybit]

The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.

Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed.

Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares.

It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.

It is interesting reading the whole explanation of your plan.  I do have to wonder how the economics of the split currency would work.  Blackcoin isn't going to be abandoned and to outsiders the split coins will just look like a money grab for no real reason.  People say 'the market will sort it out'... but will it sort it out in a way that actually makes Bitshares look good ?

As far as the above idea, all you are doing is recreating purchasing shares through capital but adding a gambling element to it.  Everything else being equal, the wealthy would just end up buying more tickets.  Not sure how this approach does anything in regards to preventing the 'elite' from having power.

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.

[fuzzy]

The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.

Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed.

Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares.

It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.

It is interesting reading the whole explanation of your plan.  I do have to wonder how the economics of the split currency would work.  Blackcoin isn't going to be abandoned and to outsiders the split coins will just look like a money grab for no real reason.  People say 'the market will sort it out'... but will it sort it out in a way that actually makes Bitshares look good ?

As far as the above idea, all you are doing is recreating purchasing shares through capital but adding a gambling element to it.  Everything else being equal, the wealthy would just end up buying more tickets.  Not sure how this approach does anything in regards to preventing the 'elite' from having power.

Man this discussion has changed!

[gamey]

The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.

Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed.

Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares.

It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.

It is interesting reading the whole explanation of your plan.  I do have to wonder how the economics of the split currency would work.  Blackcoin isn't going to be abandoned and to outsiders the split coins will just look like a money grab for no real reason.  People say 'the market will sort it out'... but will it sort it out in a way that actually makes Bitshares look good ?

As far as the above idea, all you are doing is recreating purchasing shares through capital but adding a gambling element to it.  Everything else being equal, the wealthy would just end up buying more tickets.  Not sure how this approach does anything in regards to preventing the 'elite' from having power.

[luckybit]

The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.

Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed.

Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares.

It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.

I believe the people who are most interested in the technology should be the ones who have the highest probability of becoming an elite stakeholder in it. In Bitcoin this would have been the early adopters because back then no one knew about Bitcoin except the people who were already thinking about these sorts of problems. We should recreate this pattern to continuously shuffle the deck so that an elite only forms around the people who really took a chance or who really pay attention to this stuff.

[luckybit]

The whole Blackshares crypto-merger idea was based on some thinking I had about economic allegiances a while ago. The idea was solidified when I had a private conversation with someone else who was talking about crypto-mergers and BlackDoge. I thought BlackDoge was good marketing but the technologies didn't pair up as well as what Blackshares could be.

The point is that PoS communities share an interest and should begin merging chains so that all PoS communities can update to the best technology (DPoS). The way to get this to happen is to approach every PoS community which reaches a certain market cap, volume, and has a vibrant community, and do what I tried to do for the Blackcoin community.

Offer to make a "shares" franchise for their community. Offer 50/50 split. Offer to have developers in our community make the fork for them and handle everything. All they have to do is market and (sell) the technology in their community.

The result was supposed to be that DPoS would become the default technology for Proof of Stake communities until something better. Blackcoin needs to update it's technology to DPoS so it was a perfect strategic opportunity and still is to approach them offering to make a Blackshares franchise for them. Even if you don't get their permission someone from our community should use the Bitshares toolkit to make Blackshares and split it 50/50 between communities just to protect our own community from hostile forks.

So I'm still promoting the idea that the best marketing strategy we can have is to convert every altcoin community we can to DPoS and split it 50/50. This would benefit us and them because we'd have more volume to every chain and they'd have better technology.

But I do not advocate doing it with just random coins or with Proof of Work. It should be targeted and there should be a method to our madness even if to the outside it seems random. The effect this could have (these Airdrops) could be to make people who have PoS coins hold onto them in hopes that there will be Airdrops. That could benefit the adoption of PoS as a whole as we don't Airdrop to communities who have values which promote inflation but to the communities which promote deflation.

That would mean no Airdrop to Freicoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin, unless they convert to Proof of Stake.

If we don't do things like this, someone will, and they will benefit greatly from sitting at the head of the round table with all those loyal "altcoin" knights

The Proof of Work communities generally don't want Proof of Stake technology. If Bitcoin core devs and the mining elite wanted it they have more brain power than any other community and would have it.

The Litecoin community has plenty of brain power as well and there is no evidence they want Proof of Stake. All you're going to do if you try to force it on them is make it look like you're creating another scam coin like Bytecoin.

Dogecoin already has a Dogeshares or Shibecoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=595767.0nd it didn't work too well. No one switched to the PoS and it ended up being treated as a scam.

My point is you cannot change the culture of a community just by offering superior technology. Miners don't like Proof of Stake unless they can mine it. Blackcoin is the only community along with Peercoin where the miners seem to want Proof of Stake and a technological upgrade.

If you try to push technology without the support of the core devs and demographics of each community you approach then like Stan said it will be viewed as an attack. You have to also take into account the distribution of the coins as well.

Blackcoin actually has fair distribution while Bitcoin and Litecoin are becoming less fair every day due to the way mining is set up. Why would you want to avoid coins which are centralized, which aren't fairly distributed, which don't value Proof of Work technology, which don't even want Mastercoin or Counterparty built on top of it?

The only way I could see doing an Airdrop to Bitcoin and Litecoin would be to do it in a way which doesn't benefit the early adopters of Bitcoin or Litecoin, but which somehow benefits random addresses. Essentially make it into a sort of lottery where people have to keep entering it to win shares in the Byteshares DAC. You might even be able to get people to pay a small fee for each lottery ticket to fund the development of the DAC.

This way you reset the mining to 0 and start all over again in such a way that the elite don't gain any advantage from switching to DPoS. Only the people who buy a lot of tickets and who are truly lucky would benefit and it would shuffle the deck.

[fuzzy]

The whole Blackshares crypto-merger idea was based on some thinking I had about economic allegiances a while ago. The idea was solidified when I had a private conversation with someone else who was talking about crypto-mergers and BlackDoge. I thought BlackDoge was good marketing but the technologies didn't pair up as well as what Blackshares could be.

The point is that PoS communities share an interest and should begin merging chains so that all PoS communities can update to the best technology (DPoS). The way to get this to happen is to approach every PoS community which reaches a certain market cap, volume, and has a vibrant community, and do what I tried to do for the Blackcoin community.

Offer to make a "shares" franchise for their community. Offer 50/50 split. Offer to have developers in our community make the fork for them and handle everything. All they have to do is market and (sell) the technology in their community.

The result was supposed to be that DPoS would become the default technology for Proof of Stake communities until something better. Blackcoin needs to update it's technology to DPoS so it was a perfect strategic opportunity and still is to approach them offering to make a Blackshares franchise for them. Even if you don't get their permission someone from our community should use the Bitshares toolkit to make Blackshares and split it 50/50 between communities just to protect our own community from hostile forks.

So I'm still promoting the idea that the best marketing strategy we can have is to convert every altcoin community we can to DPoS and split it 50/50. This would benefit us and them because we'd have more volume to every chain and they'd have better technology.

But I do not advocate doing it with just random coins or with Proof of Work. It should be targeted and there should be a method to our madness even if to the outside it seems random. The effect this could have (these Airdrops) could be to make people who have PoS coins hold onto them in hopes that there will be Airdrops. That could benefit the adoption of PoS as a whole as we don't Airdrop to communities who have values which promote inflation but to the communities which promote deflation.

That would mean no Airdrop to Freicoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin, unless they convert to Proof of Stake.

If we don't do things like this, someone will, and they will benefit greatly from sitting at the head of the round table with all those loyal "altcoin" knights

[luckybit]

I also want to make clear because I know people are going to say: "Why would you fork Bitshares XT when we currently have 100% of all Bitshares chains?".

The reason is marketing. The way to get volume to increase for future Bitshares chains (since Bytemaster is committed to bringing the latest features to the main Bitshares chains) is to use forks of the XT or limited features chains to promote Bitshares technology itself to other communities.

Once they get a taste of the technology then they will not have the development expertise to keep pace with Bytemaster and will have to use the main chain which our community owns 100% of in order to use the chain with the best and latest features.

So we should get them on our platform for free similar to what Microsoft did by giving away Windows 95 for free. Once everyone is using DPoS then the latest version will be the version which we own 100% of and since every community will have been converted it would be easier for people to just transfer some BitGold from their limited feature chains to our main chain.

And of course once their developer expertise rises then their chains might have some exclusive features which Bytemaster could copy for the main chain and eventually these limited feature chains could become better than the main chain but we would all own 50% stake in them. That is better than letting them fork it and we own 0% stake while they screw it all up with scams.

[luckybit]

The whole Blackshares crypto-merger idea was based on some thinking I had about economic allegiances a while ago. The idea was solidified when I had a private conversation with someone else who was talking about crypto-mergers and BlackDoge. I thought BlackDoge was good marketing but the technologies didn't pair up as well as what Blackshares could be.

The point is that PoS communities share an interest and should begin merging chains so that all PoS communities can update to the best technology (DPoS). The way to get this to happen is to approach every PoS community which reaches a certain market cap, fair-distribution, volume, and has a vibrant community, and do what I tried to do for the Blackcoin community.

Offer to make a "shares" franchise for their community. Offer 50/50 split. Offer to have developers in our community make the fork for them and handle everything. All they have to do is market and (sell) the technology in their community.

The result was supposed to be that DPoS would become the default technology for Proof of Stake communities until something better. Blackcoin needs to update it's technology to DPoS so it was a perfect strategic opportunity and still is to approach them offering to make a Blackshares franchise for them. Even if you don't get their permission someone from our community should use the Bitshares toolkit to make Blackshares and split it 50/50 between communities just to protect our own community from hostile forks.

So I'm still promoting the idea that the best marketing strategy we can have is to convert every altcoin community we can to DPoS and split it 50/50. This would benefit us and them because we'd have more volume to every chain and they'd have better technology.

But I do not advocate doing it with just random coins or with Proof of Work. It should be targeted and there should be a method to our madness even if to the outside it seems random. The effect this could have (these Airdrops) could be to make people who have PoS coins hold onto them in hopes that there will be Airdrops. That could benefit the adoption of PoS as a whole as we don't Airdrop to communities who have values which promote inflation but to the communities which promote deflation.

That would mean no Airdrop to Freicoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, Bitcoin, unless they convert to Proof of Stake.

[luckybit]

I was also against Blackcoin airdrop, but I always understood the proposal to be in the form of a "charity airdrop" of a DAC's shares.  I didn't think it was about recreating the coin for them.  I don't care about recreating their coin and it doesn't make sense given they are already POS.

I just don't think they're particularly special or deserving as far as an airdrop.  Since there are no DACs I am not sure why a few opinions on the forums even mattered as it couldn't happen at the time and wouldn't need Blackcoin's permission anyway to do the airdrop.  I'm confused.


Luckybit -
How was the Blackcoin community meeting held?  Is the meeting recorded somewhere ?  What format do they use for such thing ?  IRC ?  Forums ?

Blackshares was supposed to be a Blackcoin community oriented fork of Bitshares XT.

It would be XT but with different BitAssets to make it worth our while to have. The Airdrop would get both PoS communities on board because we'd share a stake in the success of this hybrid chain. The Airdrop would be marketed as a crypto-merger and turn Bitshares into a PoS franchise. PoS communities would then not have to fork DPoS technology because our community would do it for them and split it with them 50/50, which would protect both of our communities from hostile forks.

It would have the assets that the Blackcoin community voted on or decided on with BitGold as the transfer between our chain and theirs. We'd have to split 50/50 the shares between Bitshares XT holders and Blackcoin holders. The marketing would be done by the Blackcoin community and they would integrate Blackshares into their multipool mining technology.

Overall I thought it was a good idea but everyone was saying we should wait for XT and saying XT would be released soon. So the idea while good is still on hold until XT can be released and then after XT is released along with the toolkit then the idea can be brought back to life again.

I think if you're going to create stakeholders in other communities you have to personalize the technology for their demographic. You can't just take the exact same chain and same assets and put it on a new community because that isn't valuable for either our community or theirs. If you let them help design and personalize the technology then we can split it 50/50, let it be the BitAssets that the Blackcoin or whatever community chooses, let them have a vote as to what kind of chain they want it to be so it's customized.

The master strategy was to unite Proof of Stake communities using these sorts of spinoffs or crypto-mergers. Unfortunately we would rather compete with each other than collaborate at this time.

[tonyk]

I would airdrop for all the DACs, choosing a demographic or two that would be likely to value a stake in the success of each one. It would cost us almost nothing and give us a ton of free marketing, ultimately a far better chance of building a big initial buzz to get these things off the ground the right way. Then again, every time this airdrop idea comes up in the forums, it seems like the first round or two of posters supports it and then there is a decidedly anti-drop force that appears to sink the suggestion. So I don't know what to say, other than that "If we build it, they will come" worked in a movie.

When the DACs start to make money, we'll have no shortage of interest in them, but that initial success depends upon getting more stakeholders involved. If we're not going to air-drop, then what are some other suggestions for marketing? I know a lot of people around here are very talented at coding (for which I am thankful, since I know nothing about it). Do you also trust yourselves to spread the word to new and diverse sectors of the market, sufficiently to ensure Bitshares' success? If so, tell me what's going to be any cheaper and more successful than an air drop?

I think this is an important opportunity to expand the base.

I agree with your points...especially considering that most of ags funds are for development.  Sadly, it seems that most the community is not infavor of "air drops" by invictus.  Fortunately that is not keeping us or anyone else from recreating a DAC and honoring PTS/AGS along with another coin or two...and letting the coin communities compete for the most valuable DAC version.

That is a totally not true!
I think that the community is much in favor of using funds that they have already donated for ‘developing the industry’ for all kind of marketing! What the community, may I add totally reasonably objects, is invictus saying they will not even think of using those funds for marketing, but will be happy with all kind of marketing schemes diluting the investors share.

[fuzzy]

I would airdrop for all the DACs, choosing a demographic or two that would be likely to value a stake in the success of each one. It would cost us almost nothing and give us a ton of free marketing, ultimately a far better chance of building a big initial buzz to get these things off the ground the right way. Then again, every time this airdrop idea comes up in the forums, it seems like the first round or two of posters supports it and then there is a decidedly anti-drop force that appears to sink the suggestion. So I don't know what to say, other than that "If we build it, they will come" worked in a movie.

When the DACs start to make money, we'll have no shortage of interest in them, but that initial success depends upon getting more stakeholders involved. If we're not going to air-drop, then what are some other suggestions for marketing? I know a lot of people around here are very talented at coding (for which I am thankful, since I know nothing about it). Do you also trust yourselves to spread the word to new and diverse sectors of the market, sufficiently to ensure Bitshares' success? If so, tell me what's going to be any cheaper and more successful than an air drop?

I think this is an important opportunity to expand the base.

I agree with your points...especially considering that most of ags funds are for development.  Sadly, it seems that most the community is not infavor of "air drops" by invictus.  Fortunately that is not keeping us or anyone else from recreating a DAC and honoring PTS/AGS along with another coin or two...and letting the coin communities compete for the most valuable DAC version.

[donkeypong]

I would airdrop for all the DACs, choosing a demographic or two that would be likely to value a stake in the success of each one. It would cost us almost nothing and give us a ton of free marketing, ultimately a far better chance of building a big initial buzz to get these things off the ground the right way. Then again, every time this airdrop idea comes up in the forums, it seems like the first round or two of posters supports it and then there is a decidedly anti-drop force that appears to sink the suggestion. So I don't know what to say, other than that "If we build it, they will come" worked in a movie.

When the DACs start to make money, we'll have no shortage of interest in them, but that initial success depends upon getting more stakeholders involved. If we're not going to air-drop, then what are some other suggestions for marketing? I know a lot of people around here are very talented at coding (for which I am thankful, since I know nothing about it). Do you also trust yourselves to spread the word to new and diverse sectors of the market, sufficiently to ensure Bitshares' success? If so, tell me what's going to be any cheaper and more successful than an air drop?

I think this is an important opportunity to expand the base.

[gamey]

I was also against Blackcoin airdrop, but I always understood the proposal to be in the form of a "charity airdrop" of a DAC's shares.  I didn't think it was about recreating the coin for them.  I don't care about recreating their coin and it doesn't make sense given they are already POS.

I just don't think they're particularly special or deserving as far as an airdrop.  Since there are no DACs I am not sure why a few opinions on the forums even mattered as it couldn't happen at the time and wouldn't need Blackcoin's permission anyway to do the airdrop.  I'm confused.


Luckybit -
How was the Blackcoin community meeting held?  Is the meeting recorded somewhere ?  What format do they use for such thing ?  IRC ?  Forums ?

[Empirical1]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The Blackcoin community seemed interested. I even convinced the community manager to post here. The Bitshares community wasn't interested at the time though.

Eventually I got around 60% of the forum to get on board. The community manager had a meeting with the Blackcoin community and I haven't heard from him since. Now they have BlackHalo but I really think Blackshares could be better than that.

And they are the type of community to actually trade and hold. They aren't like Doge who will give it all away in tips or like Bitcoiners who will spend more because they have to pay mining expenses or because they have no real incentive to save.

Yeah I was one of those who disagreed with you. BlackCoin is made up of alt-coin miners, so I believe they are the least loyal most profit driven group out there. Many of the other coins have strong stable communities who might be willing to support an improved version of their coin. Especially now with GHash reaching the magic 50% again. Now would have been a good time. This is what I said about BlackCoin at the time you suggested Blackshares and I haven't really changed my view.

I like the multi-pool to BC payout idea, their new dump defence & the Blackcard thing is interesting and I would probably agree that their marketing is above average.

I've made good money riding the pumps and dumps so far, however given that 80%+ of BlackCoin's volume still comes from Mintpal, I'm not sure if they've had much success in developing a community outside the alt-coin miners?

& IMO alt-coin miners aren't really a community but more like a plague of locusts. They've put many mining pools over the 51% hashrate barrier. Even Bitcoin pools have had to increase their fees (BTC Guild) or stop new people joining their pool (Ghash.io) in the past to get their hashrates down. To me this shows alt-coin miners are the least 'community like' group out there. They don't even care if they kill their host in the process of swarming onto the most profitable coin or mining pool of the hour. (So the majority of BlackCoin holders are the antithesis of us and probably not a community we want to airdrop AGS directly too though I'm not completely against some other form of alliance.) I also therefore think that attracting alt-coin miners has little to do with marketing and more to do with just being the current most profitable alternative. Unfortunately BlackCoin  may have a limited shelf life in that respect, once it starts hitting 50-100 million, the alt-coin miners will likely be more profitable moving onto a lower CAP POS where their volume flow moves their share price more.

Edit: I'm not against it, I just don't think they're the strongest candidate. 

Having said, I think it's cool you got the community manager interested though and set that up - a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

 

[tonyk]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The gift of technological improvement ?  Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's a good point Stan, maybe Litecoin 2.0 might sound a bit threatening.

However in general if you are offering improvements and people are keeping almost the same % share as they already own in the new coin it should be received quite well.

With NEM for example which was a NXT clone that aimed to have better distribution.
As people were able to get a stake for free and therefore replicate some of their NXT position. It was 'generally' received quite well. I think it was also doing quite nicely CAP wise till a recent scandal, despite not really solving the issues it set out to and despite  being listed on the NXT asset exchange, (the coin it was initially improving on.)

So all in all a coin that represents a real improvement for users and lets them replicate their existing % stake for free should do ok imo.

Getting the support/blessing of key devs on target coins could smooth the process too.

I could see some anonymous dev releasing ltc 2.0 with DPOS along with a 80/20 stake between ltc/pts/ags and a timeline projecting the amount of time it will take for the original ltc holders to be "made whole" from the dividends

For LTC even 90/5/5 sounds good to me. I think people from this community will understand why they do not get the 10% as per the ‘social contract’ (it is like a herring swallowing a shark ), and litecoiners will be made whole in no time (the lack of inflation will compensate them for those 10% more shares in a matter of months)…
Cool let’s go.

[luckybit]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The Blackcoin community seemed interested. I even convinced the community manager to post here. The Bitshares community wasn't interested at the time though.

Eventually I got around 60% of the forum to get on board. The community manager had a meeting with the Blackcoin community and I haven't heard from him since. Now they have BlackHalo but I really think Blackshares could be better than that.

And they are the type of community to actually trade and hold. They aren't like Doge who will give it all away in tips or like Bitcoiners who will spend more because they have to pay mining expenses or because they have no real incentive to save.

[luckybit]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

That is what I suggested with Blackshares months ago and almost half the forum thought it wasn't a good idea.

But I think its stupid to promote Proof of Work when we are Proof of Stake. Why would we want to reward Proof of Work? Litecoin, Bitcoin, Dogecoin, these communities don't even like Proof of Stake so it doesn't make any sense to expect them to hold. They are going to spend whatever you give them immediately because that is the culture.

[fuzzy]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The gift of technological improvement ?  Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's a good point Stan, maybe Litecoin 2.0 might sound a bit threatening.

However in general if you are offering improvements and people are keeping almost the same % share as they already own in the new coin it should be received quite well.

With NEM for example which was a NXT clone that aimed to have better distribution.
As people were able to get a stake for free and therefore replicate some of their NXT position. It was 'generally' received quite well. I think it was also doing quite nicely CAP wise till a recent scandal, despite not really solving the issues it set out to and despite  being listed on the NXT asset exchange, (the coin it was initially improving on.)

So all in all a coin that represents a real improvement for users and lets them replicate their existing % stake for free should do ok imo.

Getting the support/blessing of key devs on target coins could smooth the process too.

I could see some anonymous dev releasing ltc 2.0 with DPOS along with a 80/20 stake between ltc/pts/ags and a timeline projecting the amount of time it will take for the original ltc holders to be "made whole" from the dividends

[Empirical1]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The gift of technological improvement ?  Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's a good point Stan, maybe Litecoin 2.0 might sound a bit threatening.

However in general if you are offering improvements and people are keeping almost the same % share as they already own in the new coin it should be received quite well.

With NEM for example which was a NXT clone that aimed to have better distribution.
As people were able to get a stake for free and therefore replicate some of their NXT position. It was 'generally' received quite well. I think it was also doing quite nicely CAP wise till a recent scandal, despite not really solving the issues it set out to and despite  being listed on the NXT asset exchange, (the coin it was initially improving on.)

So all in all a coin that represents a real improvement for users and lets them replicate their existing % stake for free should do ok imo.

Getting the support/blessing of key devs on target coins could smooth the process too.

[gamey]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

The gift of technological improvement ?  Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Stan]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... 

[Empirical1]

In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved  80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.)

So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0

I think that could have some potential.

[Empirical1]

Yeah I'm generally against airdrops too, as I think they will mainly just create downward pressure on price, it's like giving away free money, people will just spend it.

However given our marketing problem and declining growth/distribution trend, I'm starting to think it could be worth a try. With something like 'LottoShares with big charity component'.
I think by giving Doge 50% and essentially giving them ownership of it that a) A Bitshares DAC gets Doge marketing team and b) Dogecoin users will be less inclined to sell.

(With 50/50 they hurt themselves just as much selling their stakes as they hurt Bitshares holders, while with a 90/10 split they can essentially sell their stake at the expense of Bitshares holders who will be longer more faithful supporters of Bitshares linked DAC's)

I'm also inclined to think a lotto DAC giving less away to charity (and therefore more back to players) will be more successful so airdropping a charity lotto DAC is something I'm less attached to and willing to experiment with airdropping - that is something a lot of the main members on this forum are big supporters of.

Edit: I even think branding it DogeLotto or something is even an option.

The downward pressure vs the free marketing is a very good discussion to have.  You should show up Saturday mornings for the mumble session.  We can use guys like you with a lot of insight outside the technical aspects.


*note* I do not know how the lotto DAC works. I am making assumptions below.

There is also the issue of large volatility. If everyone in the airdrop gambles with their shares and it ends up in the hands of one person who does not want to be a longterm holder.  What happens if the winner just dumps all their shares ?  I mean the price will likely be a roller coaster and after being down really low, will people want to buy it ?  We are in such unchartered areas.  With a prize structure like a all or nothing lottery, you're going to REALLY screw with the market. 

I should post this in the gaming section I suppose...

I'm not sure how the current lottoshare format works or what % of the market cap the big prize could represent. You're right if it's too big it would decimate the price.

My suggestion was a model where shareholders are automatically entered into the draw, but the daily/weekly prize fund is determined by how much new money flowed/is flowing into the coin on average less a few %.

That way the lottocoin should be sustainable and your shareholding should gain in value (More money coming in than is awarded in prizes) even if you never win.

Maybe an idea to put on the backburner if this one doesn't work.

[gamey]

Yeah I'm generally against airdrops too, as I think they will mainly just create downward pressure on price, it's like giving away free money, people will just spend it.

However given our marketing problem and declining growth/distribution trend, I'm starting to think it could be worth a try. With something like 'LottoShares with big charity component'.
I think by giving Doge 50% and essentially giving them ownership of it that a) A Bitshares DAC gets Doge marketing team and b) Dogecoin users will be less inclined to sell.

(With 50/50 they hurt themselves just as much selling their stakes as they hurt Bitshares holders, while with a 90/10 split they can essentially sell their stake at the expense of Bitshares holders who will be longer more faithful supporters of Bitshares linked DAC's)

I'm also inclined to think a lotto DAC giving less away to charity (and therefore more back to players) will be more successful so airdropping a charity lotto DAC is something I'm less attached to and willing to experiment with airdropping - that is something a lot of the main members on this forum are big supporters of.

Edit: I even think branding it DogeLotto or something is even an option.

The downward pressure vs the free marketing is a very good discussion to have.  You should show up Saturday mornings for the mumble session.  We can use guys like you with a lot of insight outside the technical aspects.


*note* I do not know how the lotto DAC works. I am making assumptions below.

There is also the issue of large volatility. If everyone in the airdrop gambles with their shares and it ends up in the hands of one person who does not want to be a longterm holder.  What happens if the winner just dumps all their shares ?  I mean the price will likely be a roller coaster and after being down really low, will people want to buy it ?  We are in such unchartered areas.  With a prize structure like a all or nothing lottery, you're going to REALLY screw with the market. 

I should post this in the gaming section I suppose...

[Empirical1]

.. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode

No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares.

The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums.

Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)
The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters)  think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me.

So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.

We're all ears if you have specific, actionable suggestions!

I do have some thoughts and suggestions that I'll try put together in a post sometime on the marketing forum by the end of the weekend.

[Stan]

No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares.

The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums.

Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)
The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters)  think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me.

So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.

I do agree the points here. I can see the forum volume going down tremendously in the past several months, and we have like 1-2 new active members per day compared to beginning of the year (30-40/day). Even the XTS test did not attract new members. It is not a good sign as we are getting close to a release and end of AGS donation.

From the news I read. Ethereum are having lots of local meetings globally. Counterparty team traveled to Silicon Valley to promote the product. Maidsafe had more than 500 devs signed up to participate the project. NTX AE are having close to 100 assets now and is the first choice for new projects now. I agree we are in the doldrums. And the new website can not even satisfy the current users. We need some modification in the marketing strategy.

Airdrop might be a solution here, but I don't think it will help much. Since the 50/50 promise for XTS allocation, the only thing we can airdrop is the XTS from PTS that in the AGS fund. If people never heard of bitshares before, we can't expect too much from the ~7% airdrop. And it may even cause a huge sell without good marketing. Lottoshares is supposed to be a good news, but even the PTS community are not fully aware of it.

Same to Empirical1, I have faith and confidence in Dan and whole dev team. But before we have adjusted the marketing strategy, I disagree with the airdrop, although Stan has stated several time that airdrop will happen.

I don't seem to remember saying "airdrop will happen", what was the context?  I have been known to advocate doing airdrops as part of a comprehensive targeted marketing plan, for example airdropping to a competitor's shareholders makes a lot of sense to me.

In general I use airdrop and snapshot interchangeably (a snapshot is a subclass of airdrop), so in that sense, many airdrops to AGS and PTS holders had doge-gone well better happen!   

[Empirical1]

Airdrop might be a solution here, but I don't think it will help much. Since the 50/50 promise for XTS allocation, the only thing we can airdrop is the XTS from PTS that in the AGS fund. If people never heard of bitshares before, we can't expect too much from the ~7% airdrop. And it may even cause a huge sell without good marketing. Lottoshares is supposed to be a good news, but even the PTS community are not fully aware of it.

Same to Empirical1, I have faith and confidence in Dan and whole dev team. But before we have adjusted the marketing strategy, I disagree with the airdrop, although Stan has stated several time that airdrop will happen.

Yeah I'm generally against airdrops too, as I think they will mainly just create downward pressure on price, it's like giving away free money, people will just spend it.

However given our marketing problem and declining growth/distribution trend, I'm starting to think it could be worth a try. With something like 'LottoShares with big charity component'.
I think by giving Doge 50% and essentially giving them ownership of it that a) A Bitshares DAC gets Doge marketing team and b) Dogecoin users will be less inclined to sell.

(With 50/50 they hurt themselves just as much selling their stakes as they hurt Bitshares holders, while with a 90/10 split they can essentially sell their stake at the expense of Bitshares holders who will be longer more faithful supporters of Bitshares linked DAC's)

I'm also inclined to think a lotto DAC giving less away to charity (and therefore more back to players) will be more successful so airdropping a charity lotto DAC is something I'm less attached to and willing to experiment with airdropping - that is something a lot of the main members on this forum are big supporters of.

Edit: I even think branding it DogeLotto or something is even an option.

[Amazon]

No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares.

The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums.

Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)
The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters)  think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me.

So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.

I do agree the points here. I can see the forum volume going down tremendously in the past several months, and we have like 1-2 new active members per day compared to beginning of the year (30-40/day). Even the XTS test did not attract new members. It is not a good sign as we are getting close to a release and end of AGS donation.

From the news I read. Ethereum are having lots of local meetings globally. Counterparty team traveled to Silicon Valley to promote the product. Maidsafe had more than 500 devs signed up to participate the project. NTX AE are having close to 100 assets now and is the first choice for new projects now. I agree we are in the doldrums. And the new website can not even satisfy the current users. We need some modification in the marketing strategy.

Airdrop might be a solution here, but I don't think it will help much. Since the 50/50 promise for XTS allocation, the only thing we can airdrop is the XTS from PTS that in the AGS fund. If people never heard of bitshares before, we can't expect too much from the ~7% airdrop. And it may even cause a huge sell without good marketing. Lottoshares is supposed to be a good news, but even the PTS community are not fully aware of it.

Same to Empirical1, I have faith and confidence in Dan and whole dev team. But before we have adjusted the marketing strategy, I disagree with the airdrop, although Stan has stated several time that airdrop will happen.

 

[toast]

.. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode

No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares.

The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums.

Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)
The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters)  think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me.

So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.

We're all ears if you have specific, actionable suggestions!

[Empirical1]

.. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode

No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares.

The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums.

Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)
The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters)  think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me.

So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do. 

[xeroc]

.. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode

[Empirical1]

+ LottoShares / BitShares Lotto may consider honoring Dogecoin (for their charity community)

I think this is the obvious one. Great synergy here.

1. Dogecoin has reached their ceiling in CAP and reach, as a Bitcoin clone crypto-currency only coin.

2. Bitshares is at crisis point in marketing failure. (In short with the exception of Bitcoin/Ethereum we probably have one of the highest marketing spends but I would say rank the lowest out of the top 15 Cap's in terms of marketing.) 

I would suggest creating a traditional lottery with a strong charity element and rather than just air-dropping to Doge, we should partner with them. 50/50. Let them be in charge of marketing, with perhaps a couple of days access to Cass's awesome graphic skills during the lead-up to the snapshot date. 

I think their marketing talent, creativity and passion plus the exposure they'll provide with their choices of sponsorship and charity will really give that DAC a shot. Lotteries are a $100 Billion a year business so there's huge room for growth and it almost feels like a natural evolution for Doge.

[xeroc]

"Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"

Doesn't that depend on the purpose of each DAC?

Few Examples:
+ NameShares / BitShares DNS may consider honoring namecoin
+ LottoShares / BitShares Lotto may consider honoring Dogecoin (for their charity community)
+ BitShares X (Banking) should consider honoring NXT for their approach of also having a P2P asset exchange!

[fuzzy]

This thread is to ask for an answer to the questions: 

"Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"