What Coins are worth DAC Air Drops?

[Empirical1]

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic.

These figures are a few months old but -

SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss)
AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss)
SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000...  (99.9% Shareholder loss)
MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000...  (96% Shareholder loss)

However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.

[mf-tzo]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdf

Ok .. has 25 pages .. my fault

Not what in my mind but good try. Too much details and small letters. I will try to find some time and have a go to prepare what I am thinking..

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic, but to answer this, the original reason for posting it was to assess what coins were seen as most valuable to community members and what they have going for them that would make them "air drop worthy". 

Back on topic...If you ask me I value most an AGS air drop. This is the whole idea of supporting the development and give back from the devs once they release DACs. AGS for me should have the most of future DACs shares. I would wish for 60%.

Secondly of course PTS. Maybe 25%

3rd NXT. I don't have much there but I think we should support PoS coins and NXT is number 1 now. Maybe 5%? If Blackcoin gets on truck again maybe split this between blackcoin and NXT. My concern with Blackcoin is that it has a name that stigmatise and I don't see this to survive in the long term.

4th PPC. Zero stakes there but I like them and they hold tight on their stakes and when all the crap coins out there die PPC will still exist. Maybe 5%?

5th the devs themselves. The remaining 5%. The devs should have funds savings for evolving their DAC. My only concern with this idea is that the remaining crypto communities might see this as an opportunity to scream "premine" and throw dust to the DACs.

Nothing for Bitcoin, Litecoin and any PoW coin! Except maybe a small percentage to Doge coins because they are fun!

[fuzzy]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic, but to answer this, the original reason for posting it was to assess what coins were seen as most valuable to community members and what they have going for them that would make them "air drop worthy". 

The reason for this question is so those who are thinking about making DACs can take these coins into account when considering the synergy between the DAC and communities. 

As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this.  Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these.  I am just trying to see the downside(s).  All ears on that

[xeroc]

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdf

Ok .. has 25 pages .. my fault

[mf-tzo]

I don't know what black coin did...40 is a lot...max 20 pages or you lose them

[xeroc]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

for a presentation .. i remember blackcoin has some kind of "handbool" 40ish pages long

[mf-tzo]

Once we are ready please don't ignore the idea of professional ppt presentations to promote bitshares to outside crypto investors..marketing wise this will be more important than any airdrop

[luckybit]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

I endorse an Airdrop to NXT. Right now I don't see how Bitshares has a technological advantage to make it worth it to Airdrop to NXT but the idea isn't completely bad to have the option on the table. The same could be said about Mastercoin or Counterparty. In my opinion Airdrops work best when it gives something of value to the community and for NXT it wouldn't make more people buy NXT or Bitshares unless there is a NXTshares chain which can do some really unique things which cannot be done on NXT or on the main Bitshares chain.

But right now I don't think that kind of Airdrop makes sense right now because we actually should want this kind of competition early on. NXT is really pushing PoS technology and innovating and we want to promote that to promote the industry.

I just think that idea should be saved for a later time so that a negotiation can be made. I'm more the sort of person who doesn't think a reactive or defensive strategy makes sense when the market caps are so large that both Bitshares and NXT could become titans.

[gaba]

This thread is to ask for an answer to the questions: 

"Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"

None. You have PTS and AGS for airdropping.

[mf-tzo]

Guys,

I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...

Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..

Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..

We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..

I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..

I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..

Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..

[fuzzy]

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.

 In the end, the # of shares will be proportional to the amount of capital spent.  It is that simple.  I've proposed various ways to make it considerably more egalitarian if that is the goal.  No point in repeating them here though.  Perhaps a rehash when DACs are being released.

This really needs to be talked about as early as possible, though.  IMO, the Lottery DAC could be cloned and air dropped on multiple communities to honor their innovation (in coding, marketing, vision...etc (maybe using coingecko.com?)).  The Lotto DAC and each of its clones gains not only the value added by DPOS for cost of security, and provably fair, but it could also reward people with tokens redeemable for other, upcoming Invictus DACs (some coins might even donate to these DACs to have their "coins" and "shares" as part of the reward!).  It would be a promotion that adds value for all sides as I can see it, it also ignites the kind of clone competition that only 3 coins have that I can think of at this point--Bitcoin, Litecoin and Peercoin--and all of them are (I think) inferior.

As for Lucky.  I've always had a brain crush on you too man...you like to think outside the box and I love floating in mental free space (maybe that doesnt sound so good :O).

[gamey]

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.

 In the end, the # of shares will be proportional to the amount of capital spent.  It is that simple.  I've proposed various ways to make it considerably more egalitarian if that is the goal.  No point in repeating them here though.  Perhaps a rehash when DACs are being released.

[donkeypong]

I hereby endorse luckybit for high political office. Those ideas are freaking genius, especially the Blackshares merger. Aside from niche demographics (e.g. Namecoin for the DNS DAC), the people I would most want to bring into this would be other Proof of Stake holders such as Blackcoin and Peercoin. They are patient people who see the big picture. In the past, I also said Doge and Reddcoin for social marketing reasons, but my opinion is evolving on those. I just don't think most of them are in it for the long haul, so I don't care whether they're included or not (though I'd be OK with it if they were included).

Also, fuz's point is important that DAC developers/owners are free to do as they please as long as they honor the social contract. They still have as much as 80% with which to work. If they're smart, they'll air drop, because if done right this will virtually ensure their DAC product's success. And yes, the market will pick the winners.

I hope that both Invictus and the various DAC developers/owners take time to read this thread and understand luckybit's suggestions.

Edit: The lottery posts keep on coming. Lucky's initial posts in this thread were brilliant. The lottery thing I need to read and understand better, but it may be viable also.

[fuzzy]

Rags to Riches stories make headlines for coins...

[luckybit]

The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.

Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed.

Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares.

It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.

It is interesting reading the whole explanation of your plan.  I do have to wonder how the economics of the split currency would work.  Blackcoin isn't going to be abandoned and to outsiders the split coins will just look like a money grab for no real reason.  People say 'the market will sort it out'... but will it sort it out in a way that actually makes Bitshares look good ?

As far as the above idea, all you are doing is recreating purchasing shares through capital but adding a gambling element to it.  Everything else being equal, the wealthy would just end up buying more tickets.  Not sure how this approach does anything in regards to preventing the 'elite' from having power.

The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.

On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).

The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.

I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.

It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin.

I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.