Author Topic: Charles Hoskinson Left Ethereum?  (Read 24892 times)

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charleshoskinson

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I loved to talk with Charles on The Bridge every day and hear what contacts and deals he had made in the past 24 hours.  He was a true master at making connections.  I agree we have been lacking that since Charles departed.

Spending time on the bridge was probably one of the most exciting and intellectually fun times of my life. Every day felt like we were dreaming up an entire new industry. I do miss that Stan.

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Anyway my original question had to do with why Hoskinson is a hot potato.

I actually get along with most people. My health has gotten progressively worst over the past six months and the 12 hour seven day a week pace hasn't helped it much. Ethereum is headed in a great direction and doesn't need me to be there anymore. I need a break mostly.

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Instead, we have an Invictus that is lopsided in its technical strength and relative marketing weakness.

That's Dan and Co learning how to run a business, test new ideas and deal with enormously high expectations all at the same time. It isn't easy and the constant technology changes haven't helped much. For what it's worth, Bitshares seems to have evolved into a form that is workable and DPOS could work nicely. Really it's just releasing a product at this point and seeing if the DAC model is economically viable. It requires market testing. Egos aside, the market always answers all questions in the end.

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I'm just wondering if Charles Hoskinson is Paul McCartney in this analogy

One of my favorite songs was written by Paul.

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What I'm saying is that Vitalik is a very smart guy but he doesn't really look like a 'competent' leader, people person, speaker.

Vitalik will be a titan in this space within five years. It was a rare honor to work with someone so profoundly honest, brilliant and deeply caring. He gives me hope for the future.

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Let us get Charles Hoskinson on Beyond Bitcoin talking about why he left Bitshares and Ethereum..

Bitshares basically comes down to Dan and I not being able to work together long term. Ethereum comes down to changes in the underlying execution model made me obsolete and health. There really aren't grand conspiracies or behind the scenes drama in these things. It's a matter of style and use. I entered the bitcoin space to solve big problems and had the privilege to work with some of the brightest minds to bootstrap two major projects, educate 40,000 people via Udemy, write the KYC and AML regulations for an entire country and met hundreds of fellow entrepreneurs. It's been one hell of a year.

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My theory is he ran out of ether and his contract halted.

Nicely done :)

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Could it be the case  he thinks that ether was a big bubble and it was his biggest mistake to leave bitshares at the first place...?

No

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Hoskinson seems like a good talker and someone who is adept at building early relationships. At a certain point in a project, he seems to get the boot.

Forgot the y

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Hate to be one of those guys, but  +5%

Love you too

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I will probably invest if this really happened : D

Glad to have your contribution to changing the world. Vitalik deserves all the support he can get.

----
In any event, it's been fun sparring with everyone and building great things. I'm going to spend some time outside of the crypto space. Most likely will return to mathematics. Good luck everyone and thanks for all the fish.

Offline luckybit

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I think Charles is one of the best communicators and was instrumental at popularizing Bitshares. His videos were well done and whatever it is that he was doing behind the scenes kept my attention.

I remember hearing about Bitshares as Project Quixote and a specific widely public debate between AnonyMint, Bytemaster, Charles and Cunicula encouraged me to read the whitepaper more carefully.

After I did that I concluded that the idea could work with some tweaking and followed it ever since. I think the fact that Bytemaster and Charles were willing to defend the project in a public peer review process and the fact that Bytemaster responded to my questions in PM led me to believe in the intentions behind the project.
It seems very clear to me that economic debates are entertaining, but ultimately will require experimentation.    Obviously all new innovations enter a market of skeptics and often appear to contradict conventional thinking.    So rather than debating the theory, lets plan the experiment.   Bitcoin was an experiment that has left many "economics professors" at a loss and has defied their predictions.   Throwing in those credentials at the end as a "disclaimer" is really just the fallacy of "appeal to authority" and should be entirely left out of such a conversation.  Such an appeal causes readers to avoid critical thinking and instead be lazy and 'trust' an authority.   

So when we launch the test network one side will be filled with professors who doubt, the other with believers and the market will show us what actually happens given the set of rules proposed by BitShares.

Until we have proved via experimentation that BitUSD will behave as I expect it to, it is merely a conjecture.   

Once the code is complete it would be trivial to launch a version without dividends and see how it competes.

In the end the market will discover what works and what doesn't.  In the mean time, lets focus on trading strategies given the proposed set of rules.  Explain how you would value BitUSD relative to BitShares, when you would 'short' and when you would go long.   

For the sake of getting the experiment out the door and settling all debate, I am going to restrict my involvement in this thread to a minimum.    If you have ideas on how to run an experiment please post.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.0
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:18:37 am by luckybit »
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Offline Stan

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I make the judgment because it's true. Steve Jobs was an alpha who sought leadership. Steve Wozniak was a beta who eschewed leadership.

So what does that make Bytemaster?  He eschews leadership as long as everybody does what he says...

I don't know. Maybe he really can be both Lennon and McCartney, but I don't see it so far.

Anyway my original question had to do with why Hoskinson is a hot potato. Because during the time when he was CEO, the company seemed to operate with a nice combination of head and legs. The head talked and the legs moved the body.  Nowadays Invictus shows plenty of legwork, but not much in the way of talking-head face-time to educate the public (and "sell the vision") and get positioned to take advantage of the network effect after product release.

Instead, we have an Invictus that is lopsided in its technical strength and relative marketing weakness.

Just saying.

I loved to talk with Charles on The Bridge every day and hear what contacts and deals he had made in the past 24 hours.  He was a true master at making connections.  I agree we have been lacking that since Charles departed.

But, as Marty McFly once said, "History is gonna change."

One of the things DPOS Delegates does is incentivize candidates to attract new voters to stay elected.  It won't be about posting a "vote for me" plea on the forum and sitting back to watch the votes pour in.  At least not for very long.

The natural selection process for delegates is "survival of the fittest recruiters."  The successful candidates will quickly realize that it's easier to get more votes by recruiting new users than to convince an existing user to switch.  So candidates will go forth into the highways and byways of the world telling people about BitShares in the process of soliciting their votes.

And one out of a thousand of those they recruit will say, "Hey, why should not I be a Delegate instead of them?"

So our number 1 marketing mission right now is getting the word out about the value of being a BitShares Delegate and how easy it is to do it if you are already an opinion-shaper with a community of your own.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline werneo

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I make the judgment because it's true. Steve Jobs was an alpha who sought leadership. Steve Wozniak was a beta who eschewed leadership.

So what does that make Bytemaster?  He eschews leadership as long as everybody does what he says...

I don't know. Maybe he really can be both Lennon and McCartney, but I don't see it so far.

Anyway my original question had to do with why Hoskinson is a hot potato. Because during the time when he was CEO, the company seemed to operate with a nice combination of head and legs. The head talked and the legs moved the body.  Nowadays Invictus shows plenty of legwork, but not much in the way of talking-head face-time to educate the public (and "sell the vision") and get positioned to take advantage of the network effect after product release.

Instead, we have an Invictus that is lopsided in its technical strength and relative marketing weakness.

Just saying.

Offline Stan

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I make the judgment because it's true. Steve Jobs was an alpha who sought leadership. Steve Wozniak was a beta who eschewed leadership.

So what does that make Bytemaster?  He eschews leadership as long as everybody does what he says...
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline gamey

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I make the judgment because it's true. Steve Jobs was an alpha who sought leadership. Steve Wozniak was a beta who eschewed leadership.

It does not follow that because you don't want to manage that you are a "beta".  If this was true then "betas" would by definition be those who do not wish to lead out of desire.  This goes counter to what I've seen in "betas".  If they're not leaders then it isn't usually out of choice or desire. 
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline werneo

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

I make the judgment because it's true. Steve Jobs was an alpha who sought leadership. Steve Wozniak was a beta who eschewed leadership.

Offline liondani

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It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.

 +5%

agree but it was a great team also (marketing wise)


PS I believe I could forgive him if I knew each party truly recognized the mistakes, and would honestly don't repeat them in case of a new... restart (it catches every single time with ... windows :P)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 10:27:16 am by liondani »

Offline gamey

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The alpha/beta paradigm is overused.  I'd guess you think Wozniak was a beta, because he was not an ass like Steve Jobs.  You make the judgement without really knowing how they interacted.

Not everyone has the same preferences on leadership.  Dan and Vitalik have both struck me as someone I would trust.  That is rarely the case.  I want my leaders to be as smart as possible and as straightforward as possible.  It was Dan's videos that brought me around here, not Charles'.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline werneo

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True
Steve Jobs wasn't the one with the technical skills when he founded Apple that was Steve Wozniak.

We are all human and we still judge whether a leader or CEO is competent based on old evolutionary characteristics that made hunters successful. Such as people skills, looks, testosterone, confidence portrayed.

What I'm saying is that Vitalik is a very smart guy but he doesn't really look like a 'competent' leader, people person, speaker.

people skills + looks + testosterone + confidence = charisma

If Steve Jobs was the performing alpha, Steve Wozniak was the unsung beta always in the shadow. But both are credited with the creation of Apple Computer. Essentially, Wozniak was the engineer and Jobs was the marketing guy. Apple would not exist if it did not have both parents.

Vitalik and Daniel and so many other crypto developers are like shades of Steve Wozniak. It's like a room full of Lennon's -- but no McCartney in sight.

I'm just wondering if Charles Hoskinson is Paul McCartney in this analogy. Followed by the haunting realization that something written by Lennon and McCartney together is usually better than anything written by either Lennon or McCartney solo.

BTW - in some cases it's actually better if the alphas just disappear: 
see Dr Robert Sapolsky and the Keekorok Baboon Troop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0

Offline jae208

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I still don't really understand why Charles Hoskinson left I3 in the first place. Possibly it has something to do with Daniel's propensity to make on-the-fly changes to the business plan. That kind of quick adaptivity might have been hard for Charles to swallow.

Here is Daniel Larimer expressing high confidence in Hoskinson:
at about 56 minutes:
http://beyondbitcoin.libsyn.com/hangout-051014-dan-larimer

... DL says Charles Hoskinson's work ethic and his ability to communicate a vision was unparalleled.

But we still don't know why I3 lost confidence in him.

That's too bad, because I honestly think that if there is anyone in the crypto world that could compare to Steve Jobs, it's Charles Hoskinson. Articulate, visionary, passionate. I guess the only thing he lacks is the ability to play well with others.

True
Steve Jobs wasn't the one with the technical skills when he founded Apple that was Steve Wozniak.

We are all human and we still judge whether a leader or CEO is competent based on old evolutionary characteristics that made hunters successful. Such as people skills, looks, testosterone, confidence portrayed.

What I'm saying is that Vitalik is a very smart guy but he doesn't really look like a 'competent' leader, people person, speaker.


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Offline werneo

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I still don't really understand why Charles Hoskinson left I3 in the first place. Possibly it has something to do with Daniel's propensity to make on-the-fly changes to the business plan. That kind of quick adaptivity might have been hard for Charles to swallow.

Here is Daniel Larimer expressing high confidence in Hoskinson:
at about 56 minutes:
http://beyondbitcoin.libsyn.com/hangout-051014-dan-larimer

... DL says Charles Hoskinson's work ethic and his ability to communicate a vision was unparalleled.

But we still don't know why I3 lost confidence in him.

That's too bad, because I honestly think that if there is anyone in the crypto world that could compare to Steve Jobs, it's Charles Hoskinson. Articulate, visionary, passionate. I guess the only thing he lacks is the ability to play well with others.

Offline CLains

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Charles Hoskinson on Beyond Bitcoin talking about why he left Bitshares and Ethereum..
link?

Edited: ops, was meant to be a suggestion :D

Xeldal

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Charles Hoskinson on Beyond Bitcoin talking about why he left Bitshares and Ethereum..

link?

Offline CLains

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Let us get Charles Hoskinson on Beyond Bitcoin talking about why he left Bitshares and Ethereum..
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 04:37:13 pm by CLains »