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Offline Troglodactyl

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Mesh Network dustless payments
« on: June 17, 2014, 12:21:06 AM »

There are a number of mesh network projects out there, and I think one of the biggest things holding them back is lack of incentive for participation.

Because of this, I'm developing a plan for trustless, dustless, session based payments for bandwidth between two nodes.

The idea is that when two nodes initially connect, they share the prices (denominated in bitUSD or any other bit asset) at which each is willing to provide bandwidth.  They also establish a joint multisig wallet, requiring that both nodes sign any spending transactions.  Each node contributes a deposit to the escrow account to establish commitment, and both nodes begin tracking bandwidth usage over their link.  By multiplying each node's bandwidth usage by the opposing node's advertised bandwidth price, they can establish the running balance due to each node from the escrow account to settle up and close their session.  The indebted node is required to use this running balance to create and privately share with the creditor node a signed settling transaction, which is discarded and replaced periodically (before its referenced block becomes too old) until the end of the session.  At any time, the creditor node may end the session by taking this transaction, adding its signature, and sending it to the delegates for inclusion in the blockchain.

This replaces the need for microtransactions and blockchain bloat, while allowing the participants to withdraw and cash out at any time.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 06:39:18 AM »
WoW ... very nice idea ... +5%
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Offline luckybit

Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 09:05:05 AM »
There are a number of mesh network projects out there, and I think one of the biggest things holding them back is lack of incentive for participation.

Because of this, I'm developing a plan for trustless, dustless, session based payments for bandwidth between two nodes.

The idea is that when two nodes initially connect, they share the prices (denominated in bitUSD or any other bit asset) at which each is willing to provide bandwidth.  They also establish a joint multisig wallet, requiring that both nodes sign any spending transactions.  Each node contributes a deposit to the escrow account to establish commitment, and both nodes begin tracking bandwidth usage over their link.  By multiplying each node's bandwidth usage by the opposing node's advertised bandwidth price, they can establish the running balance due to each node from the escrow account to settle up and close their session.  The indebted node is required to use this running balance to create and privately share with the creditor node a signed settling transaction, which is discarded and replaced periodically (before its referenced block becomes too old) until the end of the session.  At any time, the creditor node may end the session by taking this transaction, adding its signature, and sending it to the delegates for inclusion in the blockchain.

This replaces the need for microtransactions and blockchain bloat, while allowing the participants to withdraw and cash out at any time.
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 01:03:51 PM »
Thanks xeroc and luckybit.

Clearly this could work with Bitcoin also, although since transactions don't expire they'd need to settle and start a new session if the consumer and provider switched roles.

I'd appreciate criticism on this, and if anyone has mesh network community connections it would be great to them in on it.  Bitshares needs a mesh network partner, and mesh networks need Bitshares, because their economic models aren't scaling well enough.

I'm just tired of having only 1-2 lame choices for my home ISP...

Offline fuzzy

Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 03:43:46 PM »
Oh....well what do you think about sitting down and explaining this in a  mumble session at some point?
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 05:07:10 PM »
Oh....well what do you think about sitting down and explaining this in a  mumble session at some point?
I can do that.  Please also ask any questions here though, especially if my OP is unclear or confusing.

Offline gamey

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 05:23:55 PM »
There are a number of mesh network projects out there, and I think one of the biggest things holding them back is lack of incentive for participation.

Because of this, I'm developing a plan for trustless, dustless, session based payments for bandwidth between two nodes.

The idea is that when two nodes initially connect, they share the prices (denominated in bitUSD or any other bit asset) at which each is willing to provide bandwidth.  They also establish a joint multisig wallet, requiring that both nodes sign any spending transactions.  Each node contributes a deposit to the escrow account to establish commitment, and both nodes begin tracking bandwidth usage over their link.  By multiplying each node's bandwidth usage by the opposing node's advertised bandwidth price, they can establish the running balance due to each node from the escrow account to settle up and close their session.  The indebted node is required to use this running balance to create and privately share with the creditor node a signed settling transaction, which is discarded and replaced periodically (before its referenced block becomes too old) until the end of the session.  At any time, the creditor node may end the session by taking this transaction, adding its signature, and sending it to the delegates for inclusion in the blockchain.

This replaces the need for microtransactions and blockchain bloat, while allowing the participants to withdraw and cash out at any time.

THis is neat stuff.  How would the hardware work on a typical mesh network ?  I see you reference ISPs etc.  I have a hard time imagining how the architecture would work since most home routers won't do this sort of stuff.  The range of WIFI is such that it makes it difficult to pull off outside a really dense area.

I do know a guy who was working on a meshnetwork for my city.  It was brought up recently at a meetup and he said he'd put it on the backburner over other projects. I'll point him to this project.

The point however that I was going to bring up is that there is a lot more value in providing bandwidth directly to the internet.  I could imagine being in a position to "scalp" bandwidth and just pass it off to another node.  If you are attempting to create a viable economic model, then you really need to find a way to mitigate bandwidth scalping.  (lol a hybrid concept I just made up.. gotta love this stuff)
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Offline bitmeat

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 08:47:01 PM »
Would be nice to create a wifi device that can authenticate based on payment. Or not a device but an open source firmware. The uses are massive, imagine an apartment building where only 2-3 actual ISP accounts exist and the rest just pile up. They probably have some clause preventing from reselling bandwidth though. But if it is in a virtual currency may be different rules apply?

Offline testz

Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 08:59:55 PM »
Would be nice to create a wifi device that can authenticate based on payment. Or not a device but an open source firmware. The uses are massive, imagine an apartment building where only 2-3 actual ISP accounts exist and the rest just pile up. They probably have some clause preventing from reselling bandwidth though. But if it is in a virtual currency may be different rules apply?

Like this one?
http://www.hotspotsystem.com/
http://www.hotspotsystem.com/installation-guide-dd-wrt
https://zapier.com/zapbook/coinbase/hotspotsystem/

Added: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRNi2N9agM
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 09:04:24 PM by testz »

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 09:05:11 PM »
Actually, I've determined that this proposal is an independent rediscovery of this:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party

...which I still think is an excellent idea.

It occurs to me that a project using this could unify meshnet and Tor, using a configurable minimum number of hops in the circuit to tune between privacy and performance/cost.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2014, 09:08:47 PM »

Would be nice to create a wifi device that can authenticate based on payment. Or not a device but an open source firmware. The uses are massive, imagine an apartment building where only 2-3 actual ISP accounts exist and the rest just pile up. They probably have some clause preventing from reselling bandwidth though. But if it is in a virtual currency may be different rules apply?

Like this one?
http://www.hotspotsystem.com/
http://www.hotspotsystem.com/installation-guide-dd-wrt
https://zapier.com/zapbook/coinbase/hotspotsystem/

Added: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRNi2N9agM

Yes, I am aware and have used DD WRT firmware in the past. Not sure it has crypto payment method though. But should be easy to implement if it doesn't.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Mesh Network dustless payments
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 06:49:31 AM »
Actually, I've determined that this proposal is an independent rediscovery of this:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party

...which I still think is an excellent idea.

It occurs to me that a project using this could unify meshnet and Tor, using a configurable minimum number of hops in the circuit to tune between privacy and performance/cost.
Awesome!

Do it!!!
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