Author Topic: I need help trying to convince a friend to consider supporting Bitshares.  (Read 13335 times)

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clout

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Also Clains is right about the conclusion. Just take it out for now.

clout

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You realize that even you don't really know what you're talking about, and you're trying to write the wiki article.  This is the problem.

Quote
Bitshares is a 100% proof of stake system so all the shares are pre-allocated and there is no need for the dilution of stake

In the new paradigm that is likely not true, delegates must be paid and since no tokens were retained the best option now is to create an inflationary system where new tokens are created to pay the delegates.    Alternatively, you rely on delegates doing it for very cheap which means you get only delegates whose time is not worth very much, which form the backbone of the network.   

Delegates are paid from transaction fees.

Dan has tossed around some ideas about dilution for the purpose of marketing. But that is not how the system works right now and I personally think it overcomplicates the situation. Any funding you can create from a dilution of stake you should also be able to do through a appreciation in the value of already existing stake. This is why i say it is not necessary to dilute stake but in the future who knows.

Offline tonyk

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Sorry had to do something urgent on the job.

The elegant, non-inflationary decision which also pays well the block producers is DPOS (i.e delegates producing blocks) plus destruction of the transaction fees not paid to the delegates.
 Nice or not?
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline AdamBLevine

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You realize that even you don't really know what you're talking about, and you're trying to write the wiki article.  This is the problem.

Quote
Bitshares is a 100% proof of stake system so all the shares are pre-allocated and there is no need for the dilution of stake

In the new paradigm that is likely not true, delegates must be paid and since no tokens were retained the best option now is to create an inflationary system where new tokens are created to pay the delegates.    Alternatively, you rely on delegates doing it for very cheap which means you get only delegates whose time is not worth very much, which form the backbone of the network.   

Not big deal, but you lack some knowledge here he he :)

Why should I believe I am wrong if you don't explain how?  Not all of us can subsist on blind faith.
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Offline xeroc

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BAM:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki/WhyBitShares

excellent.  +5%

but I don't agree with the following italicized in the conclusion as they don't reflect the overall summary,

"Bitshares solves some major problems of bitcoin and does not overcomplicate things in the way that Ethereum does."
"To be honest if you truly evaluate the fundamentals ethereum is just not even comparable, both as a crypto network and as an investment."
"People need to stop buying into hype and do the necessary research before they invest."

that would be the conclusion of an opinionated essay on "why bitshares instead of ethereum" and is fine as a personal post, but not a wiki
thx for the feedback .. its a wiki .. you can also fix it .. otherwise i can do so tomorrow

Offline tonyk

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You realize that even you don't really know what you're talking about, and you're trying to write the wiki article.  This is the problem.

Quote
Bitshares is a 100% proof of stake system so all the shares are pre-allocated and there is no need for the dilution of stake

In the new paradigm that is likely not true, delegates must be paid and since no tokens were retained the best option now is to create an inflationary system where new tokens are created to pay the delegates.    Alternatively, you rely on delegates doing it for very cheap which means you get only delegates whose time is not worth very much, which form the backbone of the network.   

Not big deal, but you lack some knowledge here he he :)
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline AdamBLevine

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You realize that even you don't really know what you're talking about, and you're trying to write the wiki article.  This is the problem.

Quote
Bitshares is a 100% proof of stake system so all the shares are pre-allocated and there is no need for the dilution of stake

In the new paradigm that is likely not true, delegates must be paid and since no tokens were retained the best option now is to create an inflationary system where new tokens are created to pay the delegates.    Alternatively, you rely on delegates doing it for very cheap which means you get only delegates whose time is not worth very much, which form the backbone of the network.   
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline CLains

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BAM:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki/WhyBitShares

excellent.  +5%

but I don't agree with the following italicized in the conclusion as they don't reflect the overall summary,

"Bitshares solves some major problems of bitcoin and does not overcomplicate things in the way that Ethereum does."
"To be honest if you truly evaluate the fundamentals ethereum is just not even comparable, both as a crypto network and as an investment."
"People need to stop buying into hype and do the necessary research before they invest."

that would be the conclusion of an opinionated essay on "why bitshares instead of ethereum" and is fine as a personal post, but not a wiki
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 02:42:59 pm by CLains »


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Offline metalallen

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Bitshares solves all the inherent problems of bitcoin:

- slow transactions per second when compared to a major payment processor like visa (7 tps vs 10,000 tps)
- wallets are machine readable not human readable (as a result something like 5% of btc have been irrevocably lost)
- transactions are not anonymous
- distribution model is inflationary, even if the argument can be made that the inflation has been priced in
- price volatility (obviously this is the biggest deterrent when it comes to adoption as a major currency)
- security of the network cost anywhere from $500 million to $1 billion annually depending on the bitcoin market capitalization
- control of the network is proportional to hashing power not proportional to you relative bitcoin holdings
- centralization of hashing power under the control of a single mining pool

How Bitshares solves these issues:

- DPOS reduces block production to 15-30 seconds and since computational resources are used for the purpose of transaction propagation and confirmation rather than pointless computational work, DPOS blockchains can scale to the transaction load of visa
- Bitshares uses accounts that can be registered on the blockchain. Users no longer need to send money to an alpha numeric string that can be miscopied. Instead you send money as easily you would send an email and in the exact same fashion. It is very difficult to send to a wrong account. You can still send to public keys but its unnecessary and adds little advantage
- Bitshares uses TITAN which automates the creation of stealth address using an accounts registered public key. No need for mixing or "masternodes." All transactions are inherently anonymous without the user needing to do anything
- Bitshares is a 100% proof of stake system so all the shares are pre-allocated and there is no need for the dilution of stake
- Bitshares X is a bank that allows people to hold deposits in whatever asset they want. This system allows investors with a higher risk tolerance to collateralize and trade virtual assets, to ensure that users who simply want to use crypto currencies as a stable medium of exchange can do so without risk due to the volatility of the networks main equity/currency. (That is to say that if you put $100 in the network your deposit always redeemable for $100 worth of bitshares, as a result of the free market peg of bitUSD to real USD)
- The cost of securing the network is simply a fraction of the transaction fees accumulated by the network. Transaction fees are destroyed which acts as an implicit dividend to holders of bitshares and makes Bitshares truly deflationary.
- Delegates compete for votes and the top 101 delegates produce blocks. The job of a delegate is simple include as many valid transactions
in your given block and sign a single block. If a delegate signs multiple blocks they are immediately fired. If a delegate blocks transactions they will be voted out of office. Each round delegates are randomly assigned a block to produce thereby making it that much harder to coordinate a sustained attack on the network without 51% of the shares.
- Shareholder votes are proportionate to the relative number of shares they own. The DAC is completely shareholder run

Bitshares solves all the problems of bitcoin and does not overcomplicate things in the way that Ethereum does. When you view these crypto currencies networks through metaphor of a company you realize how misinformed people are about how these networks should be designed.  It is imperative that the developers of a crypto currency network have a solid understanding of economics and I believe that Dan Larimer and his team have the best economic perspective  in the crypto currency space. To be honest if you truly evaluate the fundamentals ethereum is just not even comparable, both as a crypto network and as an investment. People need to stop buying into hype and do the necessary research before they invest.

I translated this into Chinese. Hopefully it will help newbies in China to see the whole picture.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5290.0
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Offline Amazon

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Offline toast

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Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline xeroc

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Can I copy that post (+layouting) to the bitShares wiki?