Author Topic: I need help trying to convince a friend to consider supporting Bitshares.  (Read 13342 times)

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Offline tonyk

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Still proud with your name on the swarm site, Adam??
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline AdamBLevine

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I'd suggest focusing on the advantages and impressive features of your system rather than focusing on what makes all its competitors bad.  That just looks defensive.

IMO if Bytemaster succeeds we'll have very very fast reliable transactions at a very low cost, the advantages of the blockchain without many of the costs.

It is fairly compelling, but it all hinges on Bytemasters ability to bring a new paradigm into reality.    Ya'll should really focus on what you're doing rather than what everybody else is doing wrong, that's not a contest you want to get into right now lol.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline CLains

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The very fact that everyone knows about Ethereum, and sees it as the next great thing will make it difficult to get a good deal on their IPO. Ethereum is going to have a market cap at 200 million right out the gate.. If PTS goes to a mere 200 million, by contrast, your investment goes 20x.

Offline tonyk

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My tech expertize is somewhat  limited so I  must rely to some extend on what I read (like the BM analyses above). So I read this thread more to learn than anything else but

Where I have a bit stronger knowledge (finances/economics), I hear they will be financed by this swarm project. The swarm projects screams scam from every step and action they take.

2c



-the announcement about  said financing:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.msg7411878#msg7411878

-swarm discussion on this forum:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5098.0

-swarm discussions on BTT:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653568.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653741.0

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline donkeypong

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Just ask your friend how he expects to make any money off Ethereum? Where is the value proposition? Bitshares is all about creating value while decentralizing everything. And in a profit-minded world, that combination will make it sustainable and successful far beyond the others. I regard Ethereum as more of a science experiment and maybe they can figure out longer term how to make it pay off.

Offline gamey

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 +5%
I found this thread, which, along with the threads it links to, seem like a good starting point for an argument about why bitshares > ethereum.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2280.0

if we can organize all the information we can find about this subject here in this thread maybe I could whip up some arguments that you could spoon-feed your drinking buddy, PP


 +5%

I'll go look at that thread.  Damn the video is missing.  Who created it originally and I wonder why it was removed.. hrmmm

Quote from: bytemaster
Our technical team has evaluated the Ethereum proposal and design and have concluded the following:

1) Mining means the DAC will be operating at a loss or break-even at best.  No dividends.
2) Scripts will require more blockchain space and bandwidth resulting in lower transaction volume for the same level of decentralization.
3) We do not believe the scripts can efficiently implement a BitShares like market matching with automatic margin calls at scale. 
4) Merged mining would be required to secure parallel chains... this has its own challenges.
5) Mining will result in centralization one block at a time, something very bad for chains that implement markets.
6) Finding GPU developers is hard enough, defining a new dedicated language for this purpose will be even harder.
7) If you eliminate mining, then the cost of launching a new DAC is near 0 and you can simply use C++ to encode your contracts starting from a 'shell DAC' and launch without having to overload everyone not interested in your contract. 
8) NO 'competitor' thus far is willing to admit that multiple parallel blockchains will be required to handle the order of magnitude greater transaction volume an exchange experiences vs Bitcoin and this is for a SINGLE currency pair.  Imagine attempting to have every tradable market on one chain!   This will rapidly be centralized into trusted supernodes that can handle the bandwidth requirements.
9) You think bitcoin verification times have trouble scaling, imagine executing an interpreted language!

Conclusion: We believe Ethereum is an interesting computer science project with little compelling advantage in developing new DACs and many drawbacks.   

We wish them well and if their scripting language and contract design proves useful as a means for very special purpose contracts then we suspect we will be able to adapt it to a more efficient, profitable, AGS honoring DAC.

The problem is that Etherium has likely changed somewhat, much like Bitshares.  Everything is moving at a high rate of innovation.  I wonder if all of the above still holds true ?  Maybe I can chop up the OP into an outline which we could flesh out ?  I'd like to see real marketing material since Etherium is our biggest competitor.  Perhaps they've changed approaches in some areas ?  Maybe the comparison should be avoided ?  A lot of the features of Bitshares agreed with me, but I never really got into Etherium because I wasn't that interested in "smart contracts".  However I am not all that familar with their full dev environment/dev stack.
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merockstar

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I found this thread, which, along with the threads it links to, seem like a good starting point for an argument about why bitshares > ethereum.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2280.0

if we can organize all the information we can find about this subject here in this thread maybe I could whip up some arguments that you could spoon-feed your drinking buddy, PP

*giggles schoolboyishly*

Offline tonyk

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That’s  a loaded question(s).

 And it is coming at interesting time of the life of the Bitshares’ ecosystem too. A lot of interesting thoughts and questions there . This should be split in several topics, I think.


I  am, myself, curious about some/most of those too, btw…just never formulated them  this way.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 04:08:57 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline PotatoPeeler

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I am a longtime lurker who never created an account. I am invested In some Protoshares before the snapshot and some afterwards. I have a developer friend who I had some beers with. I introduced him into crypto-currencies and now he seems very interested in Etherium. He says everyone is interested in Etherium and seems dismissive over Bitshares. I am not a real strong technical person so I do not have the background to convince him to change his views.

Can anyone tell me in what ways Bitshares is superior? Can someone point me to the marketing literature that covers this area?

Let me list what little I know so far. I believe that a POS system is superior over mining. It appears their mining will involved running smart contracts and then the contract outputs are somehow made into proofs? I tell him DPOS is a lot simpler, but I am not sure I understand Etherium.

And so by mining - the Etherium is diluted via inflation or does their mining just create transaction fees ?

I told him it is all written in C++ and I hear Etherium is more complicated to learn. It is a completely new thing with a higher learning curve if you already know C or C++. I also understand they have embedded a webclient in Bitshares toolkit so that frontend can be written in modern html.  Does Etherium do this ? How do the Etherium smart contracts interact with the user ?

I told him each DAC inside Bitshares has its own chain. I am not sure about Etherium.

Etherium seems to have started by creating the head of the beast first while Bitshares has created the legs with DPOS. It seems to me that Bitshares will be ready for developers to write DACs before Etherium has a real chain going. While Etherium will have some smart contracts ready to go.

I also understand that there might be some extra privacy protections? TITAN? Does anyone know how Etherium is in this area ?

I keep telling him to get some AGS due to the multiplier. It seems like a great deal to me. It isn’t convincing to him. Is it true there are 2 million AGS and PTS ? I explain how you own shares in a DAC. How is this superior over Etherium ? I need to look at the plans for Etherium’s version of an IPO. It seems you get ether which you either sell or use to run smart contracts. Is there no way to invest otherwise ?

I am trying to find a list of the pros and cons of the 2 systems. Any such documentation comparing the 2 would be the best thing since sliced bread or so my grandfather would say.

Best,
PP
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 03:46:15 am by PotatoPeeler »