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Offline toast

Clarifications about BTS X plan
« on: June 23, 2014, 05:33:25 AM »

Some recent posts by BM have caused a bit of panic. I just talked to him and we came up with a clearer game plan which I think this will make everyone happy.


Explain like I'm 5 version:   XT is now what most people probably think BitShares X is. Buy XT, have decentralized exchange. No dilution.


1) BitShares XT will launch without market functionality but will be upgraded to a full-featured BitShares X DAC. It will have a small number of BitAssets, probably USD, GLD, and BTC.

2) BitShares XT will be 50/50 with no dilution for delegate pay.

3) BitShares XT will be the snapshot target for *all* subsequent BitShares X DACs. These won't appear until long after everyone understands BTS X.

For example, BitShares XCC might trade cryptocurrency, XFC might trade fiat currency, XCM might trade commodities, etc.
These will all share *some* BitAssets and have cross-chain trading. This was how it was described in the whitepaper back in fall 2013. What a lot of people think of as "the one BitShares X" is actually a collection of X chains that have cross-chain trading of shared bitassets. The idea is that once you have BitUSD it doesn't matter which chain is backing it.

4) I3 will focus almost exclusively on XT for a long time. Anyone who launches the subsequent chains will honor XT and pull upgrades to XT onto their chains.

Notice that:
* There was never a plan to have one monolithic "BitShares X" chain, not even back in november. Heck, there's even a sticky at the top of this forum that describes this: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2940.0
* It was always the case that any chain could be forked with different parameters at any time. Now that XT will be a real bts X chain with bitassets, this is no different from BM having said "hey, our clones would probably do better if they dilute their shares to pay the delegates".
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:05:31 AM by toast »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 05:44:33 AM »
.. and the name of XT will be "target"?!
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 05:50:22 AM »
At some point I am going to have to devote myself to the study of clarity among the masses of people that are half-paying attention.   1000's of options is a real mess, people say they want choices, but tend to choose Apple which is famous for removing choices.    People say they want freedom, but then choose tyranny to avoid having to think for themselves.

Understanding this is likely as important as economics and is something we have clearly not mastered.

One chain that upgrades over time is clearly the most simple approach you can have. 
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 05:52:06 AM »
Toast,just try to tell your father\mother\brother\sister\classmate\etc....  this post ,and then ask them if they know exactly  what you're talking about with any confusions.

Then,you would understand why most of us still don't understand.......

Just like : I use Windows XP,sometimes I will use Windows NT4.0,then I switch to Win3.1,but now I'm back to Windows  XP SP3,oh,I have a Windows 7 64bit too.

Haha,Windows is good ,ah ,you guys should use windows .

People: Windows what now ? If I buy Win3.1,do I have Windows or not ?

 :'(

I added this, is this better?

Explain like I'm 5 version:   XT is probably what you think BitShares X is. Buy XT, have decentralized exchange. No dilution.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline toast

Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 05:53:23 AM »
.. and the name of XT will be "target"?!

Open to interpretation, I suppose. I'm naming it "XT".
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline metalallen

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 06:11:39 AM »
At some point I am going to have to devote myself to the study of clarity among the masses of people that are half-paying attention.   1000's of options is a real mess, people say they want choices, but tend to choose Apple which is famous for removing choices.    People say they want freedom, but then choose tyranny to avoid having to think for themselves.

Understanding this is likely as important as economics and is something we have clearly not mastered.

One chain that upgrades over time is clearly the most simple approach you can have.

BM, don't be frustrated. Contradiction is human nature, especially related to money.
It's late now, have some rest, concentrate to the dryrun test.
A good product worth a Thousand Words.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:16:50 AM by metalallen »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 06:15:37 AM »
.. and the name of XT will be "target"?!

Open to interpretation, I suppose. I'm naming it "XT".
Just want to avoid people calling it TESTING which it clearly is not!
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Offline betax

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 06:17:08 AM »
Fantastic I did not know about crosschain trading. So bitusd, bitgold is created in the "main" chain and later on will be used by all chains.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 06:17:33 AM »
At some point I am going to have to devote myself to the study of clarity among the masses of people that are half-paying attention.   1000's of options is a real mess, people say they want choices, but tend to choose Apple which is famous for removing choices.    People say they want freedom, but then choose tyranny to avoid having to think for themselves.

Understanding this is likely as important as economics and is something we have clearly not mastered.

One chain that upgrades over time is clearly the most simple approach you can have.

There is no lazy reader,just lazy writer.

I once guide a  little  ordinary girl in elementary school to install Linux and setup a remote power switch base on mobile phone network .

When you write something ,try to imagine your reader knows nothing about the subject.

And if you can't ? Just do not say anything , ask one of  your employee who knows to do that for you.
It's non of the devs issues to educate the people in a proper way .. its the task of the investor do research BEFORE investing

Anyway .. i see the community failing could and should do better in explaining BitShares ecosystem, BitShares XT and BitShares X to the masses.
However, once the community wrote sth. it's up the the people to READ it.

BTW. this forum has neat feature called 'search'
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Offline emski

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 06:41:26 AM »

It's non of the devs issues to educate the people in a proper way .. its the task of the investor do research BEFORE investing

Anyway .. i see the community failing could and should do better in explaining BitShares ecosystem, BitShares XT and BitShares X to the masses.
However, once the community wrote sth. it's up the the people to READ it.

BTW. this forum has neat feature called 'search'

Though it is wise all the information investor needs to be systematic, conscious and easy to understand. This could be done even removing most of the details about the implementation and other stuff. Just state what problem is solved and how could one use the product. Make sure to include as little details as possible. Those who need technical details will find it anyway.

Offline heyD

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 08:38:05 AM »
So the remaining question: How will the official DACs Bitshares X* honor XT ?  100% ? 80% ? 50% ? 20%? 10%?

Only with 100% would make everybody happy, I guess.

Offline yinchanggong

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 09:09:04 AM »
So the remaining question: How will the official DACs Bitshares X* honor XT ?  100% ? 80% ? 50% ? 20%? 10%?

Only with 100% would make everybody happy, I guess.
yea, we all think we invest in bitshares X. The bitshares xt just a temporary substitute.


I just want to know when bitshares xt→bitshares x,  100% new bts(in bitshares x) distribution to the owner of xts (in bitshares xt)?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 09:57:24 AM by yinchanggong »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 09:24:13 AM »
So the remaining question: How will the official DACs Bitshares X* honor XT ?  100% ? 80% ? 50% ? 20%? 10%?

Only with 100% would make everybody happy, I guess.
yea, we all think we invest in bitshares X. The bitshares xt just a temporary substitute.
And you still do  .. unless you sell your BitShares XT.
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Offline yinchanggong

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 10:30:16 AM »

And you still do  .. unless you sell your BitShares XT.
The key word is 100%.
If I have 1% xts before bitshare xt→bitshares x, but after the transformation, I only get 0.2% bts in bitshares x.
Does this possibility exist?
If things like this, I can accepet it only in one reason.The bitshares xt have become mature enough, the price of xts is enough to make the early investor get their cost back.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 10:50:09 AM by yinchanggong »
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Offline deer

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Re: Clarifications about BTS X plan
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 11:18:18 AM »

And you still do  .. unless you sell your BitShares XT.
The key word is 100%.
If I have 1% xts before bitshare xt→bitshares x, but after the transformation, I only get 0.2% bts in bitshares x.
Does this possibility exist?
If things like this, I can accepet it only in one reason.The bitshares xt have become mature enough, the price of xts is enough to make the early investor get their cost back.

Agree.....still 1% or not?simple question,please.

 

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