Author Topic: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others  (Read 10050 times)

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clout

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For those of you who say this is not a multi trillion dollar industry. You are simply misinformed banking is exactly that, a multi trillion dollar industry. So a global bank that allows individuals to hold deposits in whatever assets they want and send those assets around the world as easily and as quickly as sending an email trumps all traditional competitors. As far as delivering on a product. I have seen what the team has done thus far and it is substantial. To be honest the hardest part about putting these networks together is not coding but rather designing the system. Bitshares is merely integrating technologies that have been around for a couple decades and should be used ubiquitously throughout all industries already. The competition just doesn't really get the economic implications, which is why I gravitated towards bitshares.

You can complain all you want about development, but if you did not complain before you should not be complaining now when the team is more active than any other in the space. I encourage you to look at other forums and other githubs. You will simply not find a more active community and or development team anywhere else. Also Adam do not tell me I am clueless when you blindly support every team in the crypto space without regard for the talent of their developers or the comparative value of their product. From what I remember you have backed Swarm, MaidSafe, and Mastercoin. All three of which are non-investments. You can only lose money on them and that is not something I needed to discern in retrospect.

I want to get more information on eMunie but at the moment I am not convinced that it is anywhere close to what bitshares has. Firstly, its coded in java which I'm not too keen on. I cannot find its source code and I would never invest in crypto network this is not opensource. I cannot find information on its development team, which I assume is far smaller than bitshares. Also their forum is pretty much non existent. You have to understand that every network is only as good as the community that supports it. Laslty, if you are still trying to invest in "currencies" your in the wrong place. This is about investing in companies.

Offline tonyk

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True - will add it to the main topic I started! Except for cryptos it mostly cannot be done. The world is born ‘long’, somebody needs to provide the tools to make shorting possible.

See you can be supportive and use your brain for good causes!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 05:41:25 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline wesphily

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seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!

Maybe, I will answer this question (short version)

Some market simply cannot exist without one side being short and the other being long.

Examples include futures, options, bitAssets on BTS X.

Those markets provide valuable products:

-BTS X with its bitUSD will provide the advantages of the crypto currencies with the price stability of the dollar.

-Futures – One Important segment of the economy (the one that feed is all literally) - the farmers, also struggle with big movements in the price of their product. Even worst, all of their product comes at the same time. We have all the supply in one month and the demand spread throughout the year. Guess what will happens with the price when for example all the corns come to the market at the same time. Future allow the farmers to fix and hedge their price at a (profitable) chosen by them level and secure that they will get no more no less than that price. They achieve that by going short the required number of futures contract equal to the amount of product they expect to produce.

Another good example is multinational companies hedging against currency exchange rates. If a company operates in Europe and expects the currency to decline in price then they can short their profit so that it does not turns into a loss. A similar thing might be done with bitcoin vs pts vs whatever other currency/commodity.

Offline AdamBLevine

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If you know than why are you still acting like you don't understand? Why are you acting like people with complaints should just get over it and shut up?
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Offline xeroc

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.


Clout, the reason you can't re-assure him is because you are just as clueless as he is.  The only thing that can actually solve this situation is for Invictus to deliver.  The complaints are perfectly legitimate, expectations have been very poorly managed and Invictus has done a pretty terrible job executing by any standards they've set for themselves.
duplicate content? we all know that already .. get over it

bitbro

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If only we had Hoskinson as chief visionary officer; then he would tell ABL the shut the fuck up


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Offline AdamBLevine

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.


Clout, the reason you can't re-assure him is because you are just as clueless as he is.  The only thing that can actually solve this situation is for Invictus to deliver.  The complaints are perfectly legitimate, expectations have been very poorly managed and Invictus has done a pretty terrible job executing by any standards they've set for themselves.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline tonyk

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seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!

Maybe, I will answer this question (short version)

Some market simply cannot exist without one side being short and the other being long.

Examples include futures, options, bitAssets on BTS X.

Those markets provide valuable products:

-BTS X with its bitUSD will provide the advantages of the crypto currencies with the price stability of the dollar.

-Futures – One Important segment of the economy (the one that feed is all literally) - the farmers, also struggle with big movements in the price of their product. Even worst, all of their product comes at the same time. We have all the supply in one month and the demand spread throughout the year. Guess what will happens with the price when for example all the corns come to the market at the same time. Future allow the farmers to fix and hedge their price at a (profitable) chosen by them level and secure that they will get no more no less than that price. They achieve that by going short the required number of futures contract equal to the amount of product they expect to produce.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline xeroc

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seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!

Offline hamiltino

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Emunie is not a bank .. you cannot short an asset afaik

What does shorting assets add to an economy?

Seems like game for traders to make money.

Offline xeroc

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Emunie is not a bank .. you cannot short an asset afaik

Offline hamiltino

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

Emunie is almost complete in its development. It is a currency with no volatility, i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.

Even so i am going to invest because i think i will ROI pretty easily.

Offline jae208

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

First of all, I am not Chinese so speaking Chinese will do no good. lol

Some of us have a life outside of this forum and for me personally I am unable to keep up with everything immediately even though I try my best though and I still have confidence in I3. I'm not here to detract I'm here to help in whatever way I can.
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Offline tonyk

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!
........

You know what is a trillion dollars!


No human being can actually imagine what a trillion dollars is… most of us cannot imagine a billion dollars, btw.

We know what the number means, but real billion dollars…it is just a number – 1 followed by a bunch of zeroes, not real money !

But this is beside the point go on….
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

clout

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Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.