Trade DACs on the NHZ blockchain (BTSX, LTS, PTS)

[fuzzy]

I mean that if someone was willing to honor a 1 to 1 exchange rate between BTC and UserBTC and the market trusted them, then the internal market would allow people to trade BTSX vs UserBTC without having to go through a centralized exchange.

I like it, but in order to do that one would need a large pool of btc to handle a large tx volume in the escrowed "userbtc",  correct?

[bytemaster]

I mean that if someone was willing to honor a 1 to 1 exchange rate between BTC and UserBTC and the market trusted them, then the internal market would allow people to trade BTSX vs UserBTC without having to go through a centralized exchange. 

[fuzzy]

Anything that spreads BitShares' tentacles into different areas is a way to show it off and possibly attract more people. I can see that benefit here, which you have described well, fuz. But I would weigh that carefully with the danger of encouraging people to spend more time in another ecosystem. Time and energy spent there might better be spent in building BitShares itself. Weigh those considerations and perhaps one comes out as being more important.

in my eyes it all comes down to the relationship between the nhz devs and the bitshares community.  I know for a fact that pharesim is one of the first to mine bitshares and that is why he chose bitshares for this. I also know he is busting his butt behind the scenes to help both nhz and bitshares.  I simply helped him see a potential path to coordination.  There are many ways to market, but some are more straightforward than others....this has a longer time horizon but could end up giving us a larger base of users/devs to work on building the product.
Im also kind of wondering if bytemaster could explain a bit what he meant in his last post here.

[donkeypong]

Anything that spreads BitShares' tentacles into different areas is a way to show it off and possibly attract more people. I can see that benefit here, which you have described well, fuz. But I would weigh that carefully with the danger of encouraging people to spend more time in another ecosystem. Time and energy spent there might better be spent in building BitShares itself. Weigh those considerations and perhaps one comes out as being more important.

[fuzzy]

bumping this thread 

[fuzzy]

I think you guys may be missing something important:

Yes, we can have the same functionality on BTSX, however having real decentralized gateway to other currencies strengthens the ecosystem, and will provide more liquidity and stability to the prediction market.

exactly my point.  but not only that, it also does two other things:  gives BTS investors an early, and cheap, "in" on a crypto with a solid plan to distribute coinage and it establishes NHZ as a potential future competitor to NXT, while also subtly reinforcing the belief that BitShares is a superior product.  Those are my reasons for being in on this, anyway... 

[bitmeat]

I think you guys may be missing something important:

Yes, we can have the same functionality on BTSX, however having real decentralized gateway to other currencies strengthens the ecosystem, and will provide more liquidity and stability to the prediction market.

[fuzzy]

Why trade on NHZ when you can do the same kind of trading with user issued assets on BTSX? 

Perhaps you should also offer escrow for BTC for your own BTC asset on BTSX?

Perhaps he would be interested in doing this too if he is supported in his original work and intentions?  Seraph literally taught me to cloudmine my first PTS.  NHZ is also cheap right now so it is entirely possible that the bitshares community gets the inside track on another exchange.  My two cents...

As I see it, people are fighting to get on the centralized exchanges...why would we turn down any opportunities for bitshares' DACs to be floated on NHZ in addition to on BTSx?

[donkeypong]

Why trade on NHZ when you can do the same kind of trading with user issued assets on BTSX? 

Perhaps you should also offer escrow for BTC for your own BTC asset on BTSX?

Exactly. We'll have our own; no need to use NXT for this.

[bitmeat]

Also it's confusing since I don't know how much an NHZ really is. You should work with bitshares to make deposits withdrawals on the bitshares X network. With fast confirmation times it is simply great and will strengthen both ecosystems. In other words create NHZ asset on bitshares.

[bytemaster]

Why trade on NHZ when you can do the same kind of trading with user issued assets on BTSX? 

Perhaps you should also offer escrow for BTC for your own BTC asset on BTSX?

[bitmeat]

I think this is a major step in the right direction. It needs to be more idiot proof. I think I did the only BTSX transaction there

[pharesim]

The code of the gateway script was updated, the storage server now gets all information regarding deposits and withdrawals from the blockchain and has no other contact to the outside world.

Still looking for one multisig wallet partner (at least for pts and lts - didn't see a possibility for it with btsx yet).

Come on, how can you guys here not support efforts for decentralization?

[pharesim]

Asset Exchange -> Open Orders

[bitmeat]

So how does one cancel an order?!?

[bitmeat]

Other counterparty and I were part of history - there is nothing unfortunate about that

[Simeon II]

yay!

I think I was just part of the very first real BTSX transaction on an exchange.

(Unless I'm reading the history wrong)

unfortunately with the same counterparty...sorry had NHZ just for 3...

[bitmeat]

Now I can buy some LTS and have fun with them

[bitmeat]

yay!

I think I was just part of the very first real BTSX transaction on an exchange.

(Unless I'm reading the history wrong)

[bitmeat]

Selling 1000 BTSX for 1M NHZ. I'm the only bidder.

Anyone want to try it for fun?

[pharesim]

On the NXT AE (http://asx.nhzcrypto.org), and centralized at https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_nhz

[bitmeat]

Already have some NHZ. Umm is NHZ tradeable anywhere outside this platform?

[Simeon II]

Now you PM me to send you some NHZs, cause if you have to go and buy them... it is another 7-8 steps process...

[bitmeat]

Now you read the next FAQ - how to add assets to the AE... 

The deposit page has the asset codes for DACxBTSX, but doesn't say how to add it to the AE. Nor does the FAQ.

UPDATE: Add Asset in the top right corner

[bitmeat]

Now my account ID disappeared and says to send a message to protect the account. Oh my... A bunch of cryptic messages.
I sent you a message, so that warning disappeared, however my account ID is still gone.

You are pretty unlucky with your ID/accounts/tx these days.

Oh yeah, did you try it yourself? I'm sure this is a standard procedure. And yeah I got past all that, I just look at it from the eyes of a non-tech person and cringe.

[Simeon II]

I like the idea, and when I have spare time I could work on it. But my to-do-list is awefully long, that's why I offer a bounty for creating it.

Until then: when you're logged in there's a question mark in the top right corner which contains a link to the detailed NXT AE tutorial.

I deposited 1K BTSX, now what?

Now you read the next FAQ - how to add assets to the AE... 

[Simeon II]

Now my account ID disappeared and says to send a message to protect the account. Oh my... A bunch of cryptic messages.
I sent you a message, so that warning disappeared, however my account ID is still gone.

You are pretty unlucky with your ID/accounts/tx these days.

[bitmeat]

I like the idea, and when I have spare time I could work on it. But my to-do-list is awefully long, that's why I offer a bounty for creating it.

Until then: when you're logged in there's a question mark in the top right corner which contains a link to the detailed NXT AE tutorial.

I deposited 1K BTSX, now what?

[bitmeat]

Now my account ID disappeared and says to send a message to protect the account. Oh my... A bunch of cryptic messages.
I sent you a message, so that warning disappeared, however my account ID is still gone.

[pharesim]

I like the idea, and when I have spare time I could work on it. But my to-do-list is awefully long, that's why I offer a bounty for creating it.

Until then: when you're logged in there's a question mark in the top right corner which contains a link to the detailed NXT AE tutorial.

[bitmeat]

I'm not familiar with NXT, NHZ, etc. So, how about you make the onboarding process a little easier.

I like the idea, and this is not actually hard for me to figure out (I'm tech savvy), but how am I to expect that non-tech savvy people will be able to come in and trade?

A good exchange makes it easy for anyone to join. That's why I suggested a good step by step guide with screenshots. Ok -- off to the faucet now to try it out.

[pharesim]

Oh, sorry. Didn't know that the faucet is offline at the moment. Anyone who'd fizzle because of that can send me a PM with an account id and I'll get her started.

Not sorry about the missing "customer support". This gateway is nothing I'd make profit with.

Regarding the FAQ: of course I point people there, that's their purpose. The instructions are pretty clear imo (but of course I set up the whole thing, so that doesn't say a lot), what are you missing?

[bitmeat]

Will do that too, but not today. Was working on this nearly 24 hours straight now. Someone interested in a bounty?

Check the FAQ (top left corner of the site) to clear the basics up.
You need to get some NHZ from the faucet to deposit. The reason for that is that you can't sell or even withdraw the assets if you don't have NHZ.

faucet is offline... so, you have no clear instructions, and you just point people to the FAQ. That's some stellar customer support.

[fuzzy]

I understand more options are good, but if someone has pts, btsx, etc, why should that person trade it on other exchange other than XT? I mean, by trading there, you're actually supporting the bitshares community and helping it grow so..

For the same reason(s) they trade it on bter

 

Many decentralized exchanges....yum

[pharesim]

Will do that too, but not today. Was working on this nearly 24 hours straight now. Someone interested in a bounty?

Check the FAQ (top left corner of the site) to clear the basics up.
You need to get some NHZ from the faucet to deposit. The reason for that is that you can't sell or even withdraw the assets if you don't have NHZ.

[bitmeat]

I'm very confused. Can you put together a guide with screenshots for someone who say ONLY has BTSX, how would they deposit and trade it?

I can't get deposit address because I don't have a balance in my account? ... soooo how do I deposit?

Please do a step by step, you will gain a lot of traction if you do.

[pharesim]

Added BTSX

So is it possible to see trade history / order books here at all?

By using the direct link in the op you will be right on the asset's page after logging in.
I will add stats to the block explorer sooner or later.

[bitmeat]

Added BTSX

So is it possible to see trade history / order books here at all?

[Simeon II]

Added BTSX

pharesim you are THE BEST!

[pharesim]

Added BTSX

[liondani]

Especially now that it looks like Invictus will not have any involvement with Bitshares X (the DAC will be launched by an independent group)

so is this statement false?

not for the evils...

[mf-tzo]

Especially now that it looks like Invictus will not have any involvement with Bitshares X (the DAC will be launched by an independent group)

so is this statement false?

[Stan]

Love it. Especially now that it looks like Invictus will not have any involvement with Bitshares X (the DAC will be launched by an independent group). For legal reasons, I was worried before about using AGS this way, but now I'm all for making it liquid to trade on there.

I must have missed that. What do you mean I3 will not be involved in Bitshares X? No more Bytemaster behind Bitshares X? Who is going to further develop the product? Why are you in favor of making AGS liquid?

Of course Bytemaster is behind everything BitShares.
His team's role is to invent and continue to develop and evolve the technology.
This produces continuous releases of the free, open source BitShares Toolkit
Which, like the Flux Capacitor does for time travel,
is what makes profitable DACs possible.

(and annually creates dozens of new opportunities for independent entrepreneurs.)

[mf-tzo]

Love it. Especially now that it looks like Invictus will not have any involvement with Bitshares X (the DAC will be launched by an independent group). For legal reasons, I was worried before about using AGS this way, but now I'm all for making it liquid to trade on there.

I must have missed that. What do you mean I3 will not be involved in Bitshares X? No more Bytemaster behind Bitshares X? Who is going to further develop the product? Why are you in favor of making AGS liquid?

[pharesim]

Added direct links to the assets in the OP

[pharesim]

LTS have been added to the gateway!

[donkeypong]

You could even make AGS liquid that way!

It would be possible to issue AGS asset on BTS X and allocate them to addresses of current AGS donors, so not only XTS are "imported" with donor address private key, but also all the AGS. What do you all think, should we make AGS liquid?

Love it. Especially now that it looks like Invictus will not have any involvement with Bitshares X (the DAC will be launched by an independent group). For legal reasons, I was worried before about using AGS this way, but now I'm all for making it liquid to trade on there.

[bitcoinerS]

You could even make AGS liquid that way!

It would be possible to issue AGS asset on BTS X and allocate them to addresses of current AGS donors, so not only XTS are "imported" with donor address private key, but also all the AGS. What do you all think, should we make AGS liquid?

[pharesim]

I understand more options are good, but if someone has pts, btsx, etc, why should that person trade it on other exchange other than XT? I mean, by trading there, you're actually supporting the bitshares community and helping it grow so..

For the same reason(s) they trade it on bter

[Akado]

I understand more options are good, but if someone has pts, btsx, etc, why should that person trade it on other exchange other than XT? I mean, by trading there, you're actually supporting the bitshares community and helping it grow so..

[fuzzy]

I don't see why, with all the good stuff on the way here, we would want to move any of it to an NXT-type blockchain? Bitshares is far better already.

Bitshares is not ready yet, so I can understand the idea of this.  Plus it is like distributing it through the 2nd best exchange (NXT), only with a lot better chance of being distributed fairly.  Also like the fact that NHZ is really a decentralized service (as opposed to what we are seeing on BTER and other exchanges).

Then to add on that all people (not just those who had their PTS stuck on an exchange at snapshot) are able to purchase and sell their original tokens from the start....   

I will gladly be a multisig partner for you...but I am not sure how much trust I command

[pharesim]

I don't see why, with all the good stuff on the way here, we would want to move any of it to an NXT-type blockchain? Bitshares is far better already.

It's not about what's better, it's about using the right tool at the right time for the right job. You can't trade LTS with bitshares when they launch. I already gave you my thoughts about why someone may want to use it, and why not.

This thread is not for you to state if you think you'll use the possibility. Nobody cares if you do.
I'd like to ask a mod to clean up here so we can focus on the search for a multisig partner.


That said, I'm done with live testing (a real pita with pts' current confirmation times). The gateway site can be found at http://dacx.nhzcrypto.org
It takes 2 confirmations for the assets to be sent. The fee for deposits/withdrawals is 0.02 PTS each.

http://forum.nhzcrypto.org/index.php/topic,194.0.html

[donkeypong]

I don't see why, with all the good stuff on the way here, we would want to move any of it to an NXT-type blockchain? Bitshares is far better already.

[bitbro]

I've already suggested we make AGS liquid that way. But it's important to note that it won't be a BitAsset, rather just an asset.

Right, it would have actual value (( ...By being backed by future bit assets), assuming bit assets will have value)


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[bitmeat]

I've already suggested we make AGS liquid that way. But it's important to note that it won't be a BitAsset, rather just an asset.

[bitbro]

I mean it is possible to create an asset called "PTS" and then distribute it exactly as PTS holders are distributed at a particular time and then declare "These are the real PTS! dump your old PTS!" but that is not a good idea

You could even make AGS liquid that way!

No, seriously, we know that there are other ways to trade PTS (maybe even on BTS X, using a gateway like we do).
And for the moment our offer is of limited use, a PTS will cost about 20k NHZ and you can't get rid of those at a reasonable price if you have more than that. The market volume of NHZ isn't high enough yet to cash out.

As soon as we add LTS you'll have a convenient way to exchange PTS to LTS, and it will become more and more practical the more DACs you can exchange against each other.

Nobody is forced to make use of it, but we want to offer the possibility. And we're still looking for someone to cooperate with the multisig wallets

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[pharesim]

I mean it is possible to create an asset called "PTS" and then distribute it exactly as PTS holders are distributed at a particular time and then declare "These are the real PTS! dump your old PTS!" but that is not a good idea

You could even make AGS liquid that way!

No, seriously, we know that there are other ways to trade PTS (maybe even on BTS X, using a gateway like we do).
And for the moment our offer is of limited use, a PTS will cost about 20k NHZ and you can't get rid of those at a reasonable price if you have more than that. The market volume of NHZ isn't high enough yet to cash out.

As soon as we add LTS you'll have a convenient way to exchange PTS to LTS, and it will become more and more practical the more DACs you can exchange against each other.

Nobody is forced to make use of it, but we want to offer the possibility. And we're still looking for someone to cooperate with the multisig wallets

[bitbro]

It's not... Maybe bitbro means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?

See xerocs comment above


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ok..

"It's not... Maybe xeroc means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?"

LOLL


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[toast]

I mean it is possible to create an asset called "PTS" and then distribute it exactly as PTS holders are distributed at a particular time and then declare "These are the real PTS! dump your old PTS!" but that is not a good idea

[toast]

It's not... Maybe bitbro means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?

See xerocs comment above


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ok..

"It's not... Maybe xeroc means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?"

[bitbro]

It's not... Maybe bitbro means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?

See xerocs comment above


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[toast]

It's not... Maybe bitbro means it is possible to have a bitasset that tracks pts?

[bitbro]

They keep important announcement/changes like this secret.
 So, I will bet it is true.

Waiting for confirmation so I can tell Dan he's done it again!

... Don't worry, hopes not too high, if it's not true


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[Simeon II]

They keep important announcement/changes like this secret.
 So, I will bet it is true.

[bitbro]

Hug? Pts is not a DAC

Further we can trade pts on the bitsharesx chain ... so why use NHZ?

When will we be able to trade PTS on the Btsx chain?  First Im hearing of this


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[xeroc]

Hug? Pts is not a DAC

Further we can trade pts on the bitsharesx chain ... so why use NHZ?

[pharesim]

Hello bitshares community,

we decided to set up a gateway to allow the trading of bitshares DACs on the NHZ Asset Exchange.
NHZ is a fork of NXT and offers the same features. The fees are a lot lower though, so it's a great platform for economic trading.

You can currently trade PTS and LTS, more DACs will be added as they get available. And of course we will honor PTS at snapshots.

We do not want to keep sole control over your deposits, that's why we're looking for trustworthy partners from this community for a 2-of-3 multisig wallet solution. I know funznuts from Beyond Bitcoin mumble and would propose him (if he is interested, long time no see!), please provide further nominations or applications! We will provide the code, you need a server and a *TS wallet.

http://dacx.nhzcrypto.org
http://forum.nhzcrypto.org/index.php/topic,194.0.html

direct links to the assets on the official NHZ web wallet:
BTSX
PTS
LTS