What is the Counter For?

[CLains]

1) Yes we have not been getting the word out as much as we could have. Self-critique is admitted at this point, we are trying to improve as much as we can currently. Some of us have tried a little extra hard this past two weeks, but it is difficult to educate on a complex idea amid the billions of altcoins and other projects competing for attention.
2) Donations have added up to almost 7 million dollars in AGS alone, before the release of any BitShares product. By any measure of success in the crypto space we have succeeded.
3) Most people are interested in BitShares X, which is currently up for pretrading at Bter.com and BTC38.com at a marketcap around 25 million dollars, placing us at 7th place among all cryptos as listed by coinmarketcap.com

Thus, it is clear that a lot of people are in the know about what's up. And I have to say, NXT is an awesome project, but this IPO is not like NXT where 20 BTC or whatever priced the whole thing, with no transparency beforehand to evaluate the project/investment. Here the process has been completely transparent, and the whole IPO has taken more than half a year of PTS mining, buying, and months and months of AGS donations pricing this whole project very accurately (50 000+ BTC).

[toast]

Well then it is as I thought? No huge push will be made to make all of this as public as possible? The idea is to give those who are willing to go searching an advantage? Nothing will be done to discredit "premine 2.0" type comments?

I put question marks because I don't want you to think i'm attacking with statements or making up facts that may not be true.

There has been as big a push as we were able. The fact that is not very big is because we're not good at it, not because we're not trying.
Stan was just trying to give counter-arguments to the premine-2.0 argument, not saying that we did a good job with our push or that we didn't try one.

[wesphily]

Well then it is as I thought? No huge push will be made to make all of this as public as possible? The idea is to give those who are willing to go searching an advantage? Nothing will be done to discredit "premine 2.0" type comments?

I put question marks because I don't want you to think i'm attacking with statements or making up facts that may not be true.

[Stan]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

Our marketing blows, it's pretty simple. 2 weeks ago we got a task force put together after a "crisis management" meeting and they produced more educational content in 1 week than had been made the last few months. AGS donations picked up about 1.5x after that was done.

Trust me, nobody is trying to depress AGS donations, the threat of it not being considered a legitimate/"fair" distribution is really bad.

I thought this bitcointalk answer pretty well dispatched that complaint:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.msg7800228#msg7800228

It's key point quoted here:

PTS had already been mining a while and AGS had been running nearly 60 days by the time of the snapshot. It raised a few thousand BTC so it was one of the most public, longest & successful allotments to date.

This 'main product' you pretend they privately/quickly allotted themselves is pre-trading now on BTC38 & bter under the symbol 'BTSX' for circa 34000 BTC CAP! You can buy in now for less than what they were paying at the snapshot! Plus you haven't had to have your money tied up since Feb!?

A link to BitShares has been on the first page at coinmarketcap.com for over 7 months!  Any serious investor has to have noticed BitShares and investigated, or they are simply not serious. 

I am pleased to see those who did their homework and trusted their own thinking have an advantage. 

Knowledge is the ultimate proof of work.  

[wesphily]

Ah ok. Now I understand. I also agree that lots of people will probably say that. They may not all be fud but, I definitely see people using it as such "premine 2.0."

Should something be done to try to prevent this? Is that already being done? Should we continue as is and hope that the product makes the value despite the fud?

[gamey]

My OP was not FUD. Not sure how you can welcome questions and then call them fud.

This is fair criticism.  I liked most of your questions.  However, the whole "No one blasted this out because everyone wanted to get a good deal on AGS" (paraphrase) is something we will likely hear going forward to create FUD.  This is the only thing I was referring to.  My bad for not being clear.

I'm not saying that was your intention, but this line of thought will be used to attack AGS.  I'm very blunt.  Don't be offended.

[wesphily]

OP was definitely answered.

Other questions were just thoughts I had as a result of the OP answers.

[gamey]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

The main purpose of this thread was to figure out what the current count down was for. I have determined that it is for DACs that do not exist yet. Also, they are not actively being worked on due to the focus on being on bitshare x. Once that is done then the rest will follow. (if that is not right then feel free to change. I don't plan to argue)

However, the thread then morphed because a million thoughts shot out of my head. I still don't know that 100% real answer (doubt anybody but the big wigs really do) but, that is ok. My OP question was answered as close to clear as I think we can get at this time.

Finally, I realize that you guys are constantly getting attacked which makes it hard to determine when something is an attack and when it is not. I was not trying to attack. I just kept having thoughts to which I was hoping to get answers. The hard questions I have i'll keep to myself as I know I'd never get the true answer or, I'd never have a way of confirming the rtrue answer if it was given. (truth dac needed?)

You're very right about a lot of things.  I think Invictus etc realizes they could have done things differently.  It is a lot easier with hindsight.  They adapt though and rapidly change with constructive criticism.  I feel like they've addressed some of the issues you have been complaining about.  Look at the BItShares wiki wiki.bitshares.org.  It is not as professional as bitshares.org but has more information.  That is something they've recently supported to make up for the lack of information.  Perhaps the forum needs a link to wiki.bitshares.org at the top ?  The wiki would answer all your AGS questions and likely any other question you have.

[wesphily]

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

This is misleading as to what goes on.  Obviously there are fanboys.  If you have the right stuff, you better have fanboys.  Most people do not jump all over sincere questions.  One of the biggest reasons I came here is because Dan *invites* questions.  He wants to be challenged.  I actually felt like I am being listened to.

Even if Dan isn't the smartest guy, he is surrounding himself with really sharp guys and has a very open mind.  No bullshit rule by committee, just a man who doesn't seem to have ego problems trying to find the best solution.  This to me seems like a damn good recipe for success.

As far as what CH and ABL have said, I would suggest you look at their critiques.  CH was treated well until one person said something negative and he started to imply a threat to remove the support that he came here to initiate.  That was one person out of a user base of 5k.  I don't care to bring this up, because those threads are behind us and have no positive value going forward.

Also, as an investor in AGS, you should care how many people donate.  The more people who donated to AGS, the more authenticity it will have going forward.  We're already starting to hear the "Wait, I didn't know anything about this." FUD.  See this thread for example.

My OP was not FUD. Not sure how you can welcome questions and then call them fud.

[toast]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

Our marketing blows, it's pretty simple. 2 weeks ago we got a task force put together after a "crisis management" meeting and they produced more educational content in 1 week than had been made the last few months. AGS donations picked up about 1.5x after that was done.

Trust me, nobody is trying to depress AGS donations, the threat of it not being considered a legitimate/"fair" distribution is really bad.

[gamey]

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

This is misleading as to what goes on.  Obviously there are fanboys.  If you have the right stuff, you better have fanboys.  Most people do not jump all over sincere questions.  One of the biggest reasons I came here is because Dan *invites* questions.  He wants to be challenged.  I actually felt like I am being listened to.

Even if Dan isn't the smartest guy, he is surrounding himself with really sharp guys and has a very open mind.  No bullshit rule by committee, just a man who doesn't seem to have ego problems trying to find the best solution.  This to me seems like a damn good recipe for success.

As far as what CH and ABL have said, I would suggest you look at their critiques.  CH was treated well until one person said something negative and he started to imply a threat to remove the support that he came here to initiate.  That was one person out of a user base of 5k.  I don't care to bring this up, because those threads are behind us and have no positive value going forward.

Also, as an investor in AGS, you should care how many people donate.  The more people who donated to AGS, the more authenticity it will have going forward.  We're already starting to hear the "Wait, I didn't know anything about this." FUD.  See this thread for example. 

[wesphily]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

The main purpose of this thread was to figure out what the current count down was for. I have determined that it is for DACs that do not exist yet. Also, they are not actively being worked on due to the focus on being on bitshare x. Once that is done then the rest will follow. (if that is not right then feel free to change. I don't plan to argue)

However, the thread then morphed because a million thoughts shot out of my head. I still don't know that 100% real answer (doubt anybody but the big wigs really do) but, that is ok. My OP question was answered as close to clear as I think we can get at this time.

Finally, I realize that you guys are constantly getting attacked which makes it hard to determine when something is an attack and when it is not. I was not trying to attack. I just kept having thoughts to which I was hoping to get answers. The hard questions I have i'll keep to myself as I know I'd never get the true answer or, I'd never have a way of confirming the rtrue answer if it was given. (truth dac needed?)

[NewMine]

Give it up.

You might be right. Investors who are still investing would of course want fewer people to know about the end date because they do get "more bang for their buck".  PTS holders will also want fewer to know as it means after AGS closes, PTS is the only way in for the time being.

Why Invictus or whatever the company is now doesn't trumpet this closing across the interwebs is a testament to either all their resources are in BTSX at the moment, or they lack in marketing as you suggested? More donations would definitely benefit their Company.

The marketing director has been called out by many and a public push to fire him was also made. Even in the hindsight of the marketing teams less than mediocre marketing abilities, they have done nothing to improve the situation or alter the negative perceptions by changing one thing.

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

[liondani]

I'm just trying to understand why this isn't being blown up like the fourth of july. It is easy to see in the markets that people truly don't understand what will happen. The alternative is that they do understand but, nobody believes in bitshares. It is hard for me to believe that nobody believes in bitshares due to the sheer knowledge/expertise that the developers bring. So, my guess is that they don't understand and/or don't know. I then have to wonder why that is.

Were there radio shows, news articles online, news paper articles, etc..?  If not then it was marketed well.

A lot of individuals have lost trust because BitSharesX was not out idles of March like expected...
The majority didn't understand how importand and revolutionary it will be that BitSharesX will come out with the new DPOS chain technology (and many other futures like TITAN etc.)...now  they want to see it out before they invest, it will be something like a trust-indicator that future DACs will also successfully live under the new DPOS chain technology...It is human nature to fear the future when something totaly new/unknown is expected.Everything will change after BitSharesX is out, the public will experience something unexpected ... something that never before happenend... BitShares will build trust again,  everybody will know about BitShares... it's not the end.... it's the beginning...

[friendsofbitshares]

You first seemed to imply it was a concerted effort to keep it quiet.  Now you've moved on towards the marketing guy.    I smell a sock puppet.  Google 'friendsofbitshares' and there are  pages of hits all from the past 2 weeks.  Yes a lot more could have been done, but I'm not sure at what effectiveness.


Reddit allows tyranny by the majority so it is hard to get the right demographic without a lot of supporters timing their upvotes.
Some forums don't have working signups, some crypto forums have no place to discuss off topic.  Bitcointalk which actively encourages free speech is where we have posted on a lot.  Outside of nxtforum and darkcoin most of the posts were ignored.  At other places the posts could be bumped, but I personally see it as being rude if no one responds to the first one.