Author Topic: What is the Counter For?  (Read 9292 times)

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Offline Empirical1

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Just to add to your list :
Facebook Bitshares likes 3310 vs Eteherum 2576.  There was no official Bitsahres Facebook page when Brian came on board so good job there Brian !!! 

There are definitely improvements in the last month or so. Everything is moving in the right direction. This is  good.

 +5% Great  :)

Offline oco101

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Most people come to BitShares via Bitcointalk. There are 6 threads that were created/bumped in the last few weeks. (Someone even tried putting a BitShares announcement in the main section but that was promptly removed.)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.0           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679185.20         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.0         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=596970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678645            (Bitshares AGS crowd funding - less than *4* days until close)


The countdown clock is running on the homepage and of course there's here -  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

AGS has received over 5500 BTC and 400 000 PTS in donations and has been running over 190 days. So AGS has been probably both one of the most successful and longest running fund-raisers in crypto.

The forum also has over 5000 members, which is more than MSC, XCP & Ethereum's combined. (Though I would say Ethereum has probably been more successful with overall marketing esp. on places like Reddit.)

I agree marketing is weak but I have seen an improvement this last month. BitShares does have a steep learning curve & I agree that though not this year, going into 2015, AGS might take some criticism for being closed/illiquid.   

Edit: I also think there have been threads started on other forums to let people know about BitShares & AGS donations, but I don't visit them so I wouldn't know.

Just to add to your list :
Facebook Bitshares likes 3310 vs Eteherum 2576.  There was no official Bitsahres Facebook page when Brian came on board so good job there Brian !!! 

There are definitely improvements in the last month or so. Everything is moving in the right direction. This is  good.   


Offline wesphily

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(This post may need to be moved at this point)

I definitely don't deny the effort put into updating people via bitcointalk forum. However, we definitely need to utilize more avenues of media. If you look at top 100 companies you will find that they put their name on everything humanly possible. The reason for this is because they have identified that different people receive messages in different ways. It is impossible to capture your entire audiance in just a few methods.

I plan to update this thread once the skype meeting with Brian has concluded. It is not scheduled yet as it is on me to come up with an agenda for the meeting. I am working on this.

Offline Empirical1

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Most people come to BitShares via Bitcointalk. There are 6 threads that were created/bumped in the last few weeks. (Someone even tried putting a BitShares announcement in the main section but that was promptly removed.)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.0           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679185.20         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.0         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=596970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678645            (Bitshares AGS crowd funding - less than *4* days until close)


The countdown clock is running on the homepage and of course there's here -  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

AGS has received over 5500 BTC and 400 000 PTS in donations and has been running over 190 days. So AGS has been probably both one of the most successful and longest running fund-raisers in crypto.

The forum also has over 5000 members, which is more than MSC, XCP & Ethereum's combined. (Though I would say Ethereum has probably been more successful with overall marketing esp. on places like Reddit.)

I agree marketing is weak but I have seen an improvement this last month. BitShares does have a steep learning curve & I agree that though not this year, going into 2015, AGS might take some criticism for being closed/illiquid.   

Edit: I also think there have been threads started on other forums to let people know about BitShares & AGS donations, but I don't visit them so I wouldn't know.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 03:53:15 pm by Empirical1 »

Offline wesphily

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Not sure if you are comparing me to the people that live in the sand or, if you are complimenting the marketing guy for those charities. Clearly, everybody in the audience knew what he was talking about or they would not have laughed. That is because everybody in the audience has heard in some way about hungry people in foreign countries. Most likely, they've seen the same commercials.

Either way, Brian responded to my email postively which is great! I am going to be putting a list together so that we can have a focused conversation. Thanks to everybody for your assistance!


Offline wesphily

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My email to Brian.

Hello Brian,


I understand that several people have been complaining about various things. I am not emailing you to tell you how to do your job. If bitshares chose you then there must be a good reason as they are incredibly smart people. Instead, I want to explain my journey today so that you may make the bitshares experience many times better for the average user.


Today, I decided to figure out what the counter was for on the forum. I originally thought that it was for a snapshot like the previous counter was for. I was not sure what snapshot it was for though. So, I decided to try to figure it out. I googled it. I searched the forums for it. Finally, I decided to post on the forums.


My original post was to determine what the counter was for. The first few posts were posts that I expected. They did not clearly identify the question I was asking nor did they answer it. I asked the question several different ways until finally somebody stated that it was for a share in all future DAC's. This lead me to the question "Why isn't this being blown up like the 4th of July?"


Everybody's initial response was "Marketing." People kept saying that bitshares was not exploiting all means of media to get the word out about the final AGS donations. Others stated that it was a difficult idea to understand/express. Three pages later I was able to understand two things.


The counter is for the final AGS donations and, bitshares is not expressing its ideas in an easily understandable format. If the average user has to go through what I went through to discover these two things then they most likely will never understand bitshares. I don't want this to happen!


Below is a quick brainstorm of things I could think of. These are some of the things that the marketing director thought of for the company I work at. Feel free to use, abuse, or ignore.


Please consider utilizing other media outlets to express the ideas of bitshares. News articles, analog radio shows, and maybe a dedicated section on the forum that is soley dedicated to videos explaining everything. I realize that there are videos in various places about various things but that is difficult! http://bitshares.org/blog/   https://www.facebook.com/officialbitshares    https://twitter.com/_bitshares  These are awesome! Maybe it should be in the signature of the main players so that people are more aware of it? Press release subforum needs to be more active and exciting. More articles need to appear on major crypto coin news websites. More "C" level explanations need to be created of the ideas and technologies.


In conclusion, I did not wake up today expecting to end it with an email to the marketing director at bitshares. I hope that my journey will help you to understand what the average person runs into when trying to discover bitshares. I hope that then helps you to better market bitshares for success.


Sincerely,

Phillip (aka wesphily)

Offline wesphily

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So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

brian@bitshares.org if you have specific suggestions. He's owning it but his background is outside of the crypto space which is why I think we'll do better when we're out of the "nerds only" phase

I'll do it! Thanks.

Offline toast

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So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

brian@bitshares.org if you have specific suggestions. He's owning it but his background is outside of the crypto space which is why I think we'll do better when we're out of the "nerds only" phase
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline wesphily

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I work in IT at a high level so I can definitely appreciate the difficulty of translating/expressing ideas that most people don't understand. More specifically, I am almost always talking to a "C" level person (CEO/CIO/COO) when explaining various things. I once had to explain to a person how to use windows 8. This person had never used a computer in her entire life. I was able to complete this task in 1 hour. Below is a link to a person who explained cyber warfare and, recent revolutionary changes that make it more efficient. He was able to do this in a way that everybody in the audiance was able to understand.
http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_domas_the_1s_and_0s_behind_cyber_warfare

I say all of this because I know that there is always a way to make a difficult idea understandable to the average person. This leads me back to marketing. Every time I have to explain a new technology to a "C" level I have to be able to market it in a way that they will understand. If I speak too technical then they will feel stupid and not really listen. If I don't explain the features well then they will see it useless and not buy it. If I market it good enough then they understand that value and easily make the decision to invest.

So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

Offline gamey

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Marketing will need to improve for all of that to happen. Otherwise, people will not understand why they should even bother with pts when bts-x exists!? Also, I think time expectation of 1 month to double is optimistic. (hopefully I am wrong though!)

Edit: I did not set out to discover that marketing was such a big problem with bitshares. What a strange conclusion.

I think there are a couple of problems that aren't the fault of the marketers that make the job difficult.

1) Large product line that is completely novel and complex.  It is hard to define.  Solaaire said the message is muddled.  I'm not sure.  I think the alternative to being muddled is just to leave things out.  As it is no one even mentions kehotee.

2) Unreleased products.  It isn't so easy to market these things.  Especially with the high level of innovation and the R&D that causes the product to rapidly change while evolving.

BTW I think that the push for marketing via forums has had a measurable effect.  Just look at the donation trends to AGS starting 15 days from the last day.  Sure it is a drop in the bucket, but I don't think the effort involved was anywhere on the scale of a regular marketing approach.  The goal was just to make people aware who had somehow let it slip by them. Those who are passionate crypto-enthusiasts or new to the scene since the original hype faded.  It is all the network effect..  they might just reel in that one pivotal person.  No one knows these things.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 09:57:03 pm by gamey »
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Offline wesphily

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I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immediate issue. (lack of people understanding what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?

Assuming the next month BitShares-PTS will double it's price it is a way better investment in future DACs compared with AGS on these prices...

Why could it be a better investment?
because:
1.After AGS fundraising, the demand of BitShares-PTS will increase because it's the only method to participate in future DACs after 200 Days donation's end.
2.It will upgraded to DPOS chain technology  + TITAN etc.
3.BitSharesX will launch, and it will be the best promotion for any "product" related to I3
4.DACs snapshots will be announced soon... so what do you expect to happen with PTS after such announcements?
5.They are liquid!
6.etc......

Marketing will need to improve for all of that to happen. Otherwise, people will not understand why they should even bother with pts when bts-x exists!? Also, I think time expectation of 1 month to double is optimistic. (hopefully I am wrong though!)

Edit: I did not set out to discover that marketing was such a big problem with bitshares. What a strange conclusion.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 09:40:37 pm by wesphily »

Offline liondani

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I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immediate issue. (lack of people understanding what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?

Assuming the next month BitShares-PTS will double it's price it is a way better investment in future DACs compared with AGS on these prices...

Why could it be a better investment?
because:
1.After AGS fundraising, the demand of BitShares-PTS will increase because it's the only method to participate in future DACs after 200 Days donation's end.
2.It will upgraded to DPOS chain technology  + TITAN etc.
3.BitSharesX will launch, and it will be the best promotion for any "product" related to I3
4.DACs snapshots will be announced soon... so what do you expect to happen with PTS after such announcements?
5.They are liquid!
6.etc......
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 09:09:02 pm by liondani »

Offline solaaire

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I think you nailed it wesphilly.

There have been posts regarding AGS on BTT, reddit, these forum, and on the official website for months. This information has been updated and published once again to all of those platforms over the last 2 weeks in order to push this information and make it as public as possible.

But you're right. This seems like it will be the extent of promoting AGS before the deadline, and I'm pretty dubious of it's effectiveness.  Leveraging online communities to spread a message can be very effective... but what's the message? Frankly, it's scattered, unclear, and confusing. So that's what the community spreads, a muddled message. It is no surprise that some interested parties lost interest because they were either confused or skeptical, but either way they give up in frustration.

There's a lot to learn about just AGS, let alone the entire BitShares ecosystem. It's complex, overwhelming, and unintuitive. Most new, groundbreaking technologies are. The challenge is to make the applications of these technologies easy to understand, and more importantly, desirable. I had read more about BitShares than I ever read any of my textbooks in college. A hefty  time investment is required, and that investment is the only reason many of us on this message board understand the applications of BitShares... or at least some of the implications of the applications  :P

But that's insane, and one cannot expect everyone to do that. And they should not have to. We needed messaging that was clear and stupid easy to understand and it just wasn't there, and it still isn't.

Sure, we might be able to look at all of the money raised and deem it a success. And to be sure, as a whole, AGS has been successful. Unfortunately, I cannot help but think that AGS would have greatly benefited from a more coherent marketing push, at least on the western front.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:52:18 pm by solaaire »

Offline wesphily

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I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immdiate issue. (lack of people understading what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:24:35 pm by wesphily »