Author Topic: Dry Run 10: Viva la Vida Delegada  (Read 13393 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
@sfinder  I understand the translation via google translate. I will make sure BM looks at it.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
This dry run is over, thanks all.

We will switch our attention to getting a release without BitAssets out ASAP. Then we will go back to getting BitAssets figured out.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline sfinder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
  • 4 Cores CPU+100GB SSD+anti-DDoS Pro
    • View Profile
Hackfisher, please kindly help to translate following solution to BM for how to avoid attacking 


现在的问题是抵押发行资产时,价格可以随意定,我可以抵押1XTS,发行1亿bitUSD,在精心设计的攻击下,可以让这个挂单成交获取很多bitUSD.
以下是我的修改
1. 首先对每个block,我们可以获取这个block内所有交易中,bitUSD 卖单的最高成交价。可以认为如果按这个价格抵押XTS发行USD,能把USD发行数量限制在安全值内。
2. 为进一步保证安全,可以扫描每个块的bitUSD最高成交价,按最近360个价格取最高值。对初始状态,没有360个块,可以设定一个安全的初始值,比如0.2USD/XTS。到此可以强制规定一个安全的资产发行价。
3. 现在举实例,假设按以上逻辑算出来的发行价为 0.2 USD/XTS
  1) 我要拿出20 XTS,按0.18 USD/XTS价格发行,这个价格小于 0.2,所以强制按 0.2USD/XTS发行,加上双倍抵押,只能创造 20 *(0.2/2) = 2 USD。这2个USD直接就创造出来,属于我了。同时按 0.18USD/XTS 挂 USD 卖单。
  2) 如果我设定按 0.22 USD/XTS 发行,这个价格本身就大于 0.2,是安全的,就直接按这个 0.22 的价格创造 USD,并挂USD卖单。
 
 
 
  这样做连市场深度检查都不需要的
为更加保险,可以把360个块再取大一点,比如按1天24小时算,是24*60*6 个块。
如果想发动攻击,发行大量bitUSD,除非能控制一天之内所有的 USD 卖单价格都严重偏低,这是不可能的。
 
 
  在正式启动之后
第一个block就可以创造出 bitUSD,第一天之内的所有发行价应该都是<=0.2USD/XTS 。
第二天开始,发行价由前一天成交的 bitUSD 买卖单市场价决定。如果XTS开始升值,发行价自然会提高。XTS价值越高,1个XTS能发行的USD越多,但上限总是被市场趋势控制的,无法被个人左右。





still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

+ 1

Lets look at this very closely because it is very easy to confuse yourself when it comes to thinking about markets (happens to me a lot and I have a good grasp on it).   I write this to "think out loud" so I may have something wrong.

Before any trading can occur there must be at least X% (say 1%) of the XTS sitting in unmatched shorts & asks.  Lets also assume that this 1% does not belong to the attacker because the attacker would have no victims if it all belonged to him. 

Primary goal of the attack:
1) Create a large amount of BitUSD with very little XTS backing it which will be unresolvable and break the peg until someone eats the loss.
2) To be successful the attacker must be on both sides of the trade (collecting a large USD balance, and an equal short position).
3) To achieve this the attacker must eliminate all other asks on the book that are not their own.

To execute the attack:
1) You must sell 1 XTS for 10000 USD (a very high ask if it were real USD)
2) This means you must place bids to match every ask at 1, 10, 100, 1000 USD per XTS
3) To places these bids means you must short USD at lower and lower prices
4) As you short USD at lower and lower prices you are creating more and more USD backed by less and less XTS.
5) At the end of the day you have a lot of people who long USD while you are short USD at a very low value.
*** Critical Point:  Does the rest of the market run out of money before you do ********
6) Eventually you run out of money and can no longer fight off the hoards of people selling XTS for USD
7) The value of USD starts rising absent your manipulation until your short position is blown.
8) Those who were buying USD while you were shorting knew at the time of purchase that USD wasn't pegged to the dollar and they bought knowing their max return would be 2x on their XTS.   So these buyers of USD gladly sell their USD at a 2x profit even if it is below the dollar peg.
9) The market will continue to correct until all of the attackers USD has been covered and his collateral lost.
10) The peg is restored and all is well.

Some things to note:
1) During the attack many legitimate shorts will start covering to lock in their profits and thus make it more difficult to maintain the attack
2) During the attack many savvy users will start buying USD at the huge discount.  If BitUSD is currently 10% of real USD then you buy it because you know it has collateral worth 20% of real USD backing it.  Sure you don't get to realize a 10x gain when it returns to market peg, but you still get a free 2x gain on the return to market peg.  For this reason, BitUSD is a solid buy any time it is below parity and profit can be made by selling BitUSD for XTS even below market peg if you bought it at an even lower point.

What this means is that only the attacker's short positions get blown out, and everyone else still profits.   In this case I consider an attacker anyone who shorts BitUSD when BitUSD is already below USD value. 

So the attacker has to clear the order book of all orders but their own, create a large short against their own ASK so they end up being LONG and SHORT a significant amount of USD.       To execute this attack requires:

1) Enough XTS to buy out all existing asks while having enough XTS to keep the market open, so lets call that 2% of XTS
2) The ability to execute your attack faster than the rest of the market participants can enter to take your money.
       - shorts entering to cover at a profit
       - asks entering to buy USD cheap

I think that the 2% attack threshold is only viable if the rest of the network is idle, in practice I suspect that the market depth could be 10% and would grow as the attacker attempted to push down USD. 

Lastly I would like to submit one last fail-safe feature:  Delegates
  To execute any attack requires delegates to include your transactions in the first place and for regular users to propagate your transactions.  For this reason an attacker would have to connect directly to a delegate that will include their transaction because it is unlikely to propagate among regular users.   If there are good delegates then the market can function with little opportunity to attack.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 05:09:40 pm by sfinder »
微博:星在飘我在找|BTS X 受托人delegate ID:baidu
中国教育书店合作将20%收入捐献给贫困山区学生。
Cooperating with China Education Bookstore and will donate 20% of delegate income to the poor students

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Getting a Segmentation fault on quit.

Code: [Select]


default (unlocked) >>> quit
[Thread 0x7fffeeffd700 (LWP 8931) exited]
[Thread 0x7fffcbde4700 (LWP 8936) exited]

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
bts::blockchain::chain_database::get_head_block_id (this=0x17c15a8) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/blockchain/chain_database.cpp:2230
2230        return my->_head_block_id;
(gdb) bt
#0  bts::blockchain::chain_database::get_head_block_id (this=0x17c15a8) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/blockchain/chain_database.cpp:2230
#1  0x00000000005f5743 in bts::client::detail::client_impl::handle_message (this=0x1783680, message_to_handle=..., sync_mode=<optimized out>) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/client/client.cpp:949
#2  0x00000000006e612f in operator() (__closure=<optimized out>) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/net/node.cpp:3494
#3  fc::detail::functor_run<bts::net::detail::thread_switching_node_delegate_wrapper::handle_message(const bts::net::message&, bool)::__lambda44>::run(void *, void *) (functor=<optimized out>, prom=0x7fffd8126840)
    at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/include/fc/thread/task.hpp:48
#4  0x000000000064e873 in fc::task_base::run_impl (this=this@entry=0x7fffd8126790) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/src/thread/task.cpp:39
#5  0x000000000064ef25 in fc::task_base::run (this=this@entry=0x7fffd8126790) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/src/thread/task.cpp:29
#6  0x000000000064d0db in run_next_task (this=0x1784e60) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/src/thread/thread_d.hpp:372
#7  fc::thread_d::process_tasks (this=this@entry=0x1784e60) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/src/thread/thread_d.hpp:395
#8  0x000000000064d326 in fc::thread_d::start_process_tasks (my=24661600) at /home/bitcoiner/local/bitshares_toolkit/libraries/fc/src/thread/thread_d.hpp:352
#9  0x0000000000cba46e in make_fcontext ()
#10 0x0000000001784e60 in ?? ()
#11 0x0000000000000000 in ?? ()


>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Whats going on with the test now? Im getting stuck on a block again:

Code: [Select]
--- there are now 8 active connections to the p2p network
(wallet closed) >>> getinfo
{
  "blockchain_head_block_num": 3939,
  "blockchain_head_block_age": "5 hours old",
  "blockchain_head_block_timestamp": "20140717T101150",
  "blockchain_average_delegate_participation": 5.6456120737842372,
  "blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": 10,
  "blockchain_blocks_left_in_round": 101,
  "blockchain_confirmation_requirement": 1,
  "blockchain_accumulated_fees": "12.89899 XTS",
  "blockchain_share_supply": 199999998692024,
  "blockchain_random_seed": "b5a0d967911b6a1132a74039fefaa90c4618a60b",
  "blockchain_database_version": 114,
  "blockchain_version": 108,
  "network_num_connections": 8,
  "network_num_connections_max": 200,
  "network_protocol_version": 104,
  "ntp_time": "20140717T145220",
  "ntp_error": -0.025156000000000001,
  "wallet_open": false,
  "wallet_unlocked": null,
  "wallet_unlocked_until": null,
  "wallet_unlocked_until_timestamp": null,
  "wallet_block_production_enabled": null,
  "wallet_next_block_production_time": null,
  "wallet_next_block_production_timestamp": null,
  "wallet_version": 100
}

Me too.
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline bytemaster

If current price is 1xts/usd, current buy order totally 10^7USD
I can attack with these process:
Code: [Select]
ask alt 200000 XTS 500 USD // buy 10^8 USD with 2*10^5 XTS
short  alt 100000000 500 USD // short 10^8 USD with 2*10^5 XTS  backup
I earn 10^8-10^7=9*10^7 USD, WITH 4*40^5 XTS.
these XTS should only worth 4*10^5 XTS with normal price 1XTS/USD.

Yes, you can do that right now, but not with the enhanced restrictions coming.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
If current price is 1xts/usd, current buy order totally 10^7USD
I can attack with these process:
Code: [Select]
ask alt 200000 XTS 500 USD // buy 10^8 USD with 2*10^5 XTS
short  alt 100000000 500 USD // short 10^8 USD with 2*10^5 XTS  backup
I earn 10^8-10^7=9*10^7 USD, WITH 4*40^5 XTS.
these XTS should only worth 4*10^5 XTS with normal price 1XTS/USD.

Offline bdnoble

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Home Page



You are wrong. The point is that even at the current market cap which is approximately 20-30 mil you would have to spend 200k or 300k on acquiring shares before you could attack the network (in the future it will be much more expensive). And if you had that many shares, it would be WAY more profitable to INCREASE the value of the network than to destroy it by having some kind of attack on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"After the birth of Jesus, "wise men from the East" visited Herod to inquire the whereabouts of "the one having been born king of the Jews"... Herod killed all kids under 2 years old because as King of the Jews, was alarmed at the prospect of a usurper... "

I hope the modern king in crypto currency world will not copy paste Herod's attitude and sacrifice about 300,000 kids sorry I mean $dollars...  But in the event  they did, I would suggest to name that historical crypto event something like... 

"Massacre of the Innocents...bitUSD's"

Indeed. "Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." That's why we need a hero. Actually 101 heroes will do nicely. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani


You are wrong. The point is that even at the current market cap which is approximately 20-30 mil you would have to spend 200k or 300k on acquiring shares before you could attack the network (in the future it will be much more expensive). And if you had that many shares, it would be WAY more profitable to INCREASE the value of the network than to destroy it by having some kind of attack on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"After the birth of Jesus, "wise men from the East" visited Herod to inquire the whereabouts of "the one having been born king of the Jews"... Herod killed all kids under 2 years old because as King of the Jews, was alarmed at the prospect of a usurper... "

I hope the modern king in crypto currency world will not copy paste Herod's attitude and sacrifice about 300,000 kids sorry I mean $dollars...  But in the event  they did, I would suggest to name that historical crypto event something like... 

"Massacre of the Innocents...bitUSD's"
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 03:28:49 pm by liondani »

clout

  • Guest
Whats going on with the test now? Im getting stuck on a block again:

Code: [Select]
--- there are now 8 active connections to the p2p network
(wallet closed) >>> getinfo
{
  "blockchain_head_block_num": 3939,
  "blockchain_head_block_age": "5 hours old",
  "blockchain_head_block_timestamp": "20140717T101150",
  "blockchain_average_delegate_participation": 5.6456120737842372,
  "blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": 10,
  "blockchain_blocks_left_in_round": 101,
  "blockchain_confirmation_requirement": 1,
  "blockchain_accumulated_fees": "12.89899 XTS",
  "blockchain_share_supply": 199999998692024,
  "blockchain_random_seed": "b5a0d967911b6a1132a74039fefaa90c4618a60b",
  "blockchain_database_version": 114,
  "blockchain_version": 108,
  "network_num_connections": 8,
  "network_num_connections_max": 200,
  "network_protocol_version": 104,
  "ntp_time": "20140717T145220",
  "ntp_error": -0.025156000000000001,
  "wallet_open": false,
  "wallet_unlocked": null,
  "wallet_unlocked_until": null,
  "wallet_unlocked_until_timestamp": null,
  "wallet_block_production_enabled": null,
  "wallet_next_block_production_time": null,
  "wallet_next_block_production_timestamp": null,
  "wallet_version": 100
}

Offline bytemaster


still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

+ 1

Lets look at this very closely because it is very easy to confuse yourself when it comes to thinking about markets (happens to me a lot and I have a good grasp on it).   I write this to "think out loud" so I may have something wrong.

Before any trading can occur there must be at least X% (say 1%) of the XTS sitting in unmatched shorts & asks.  Lets also assume that this 1% does not belong to the attacker because the attacker would have no victims if it all belonged to him. 

Primary goal of the attack:
1) Create a large amount of BitUSD with very little XTS backing it which will be unresolvable and break the peg until someone eats the loss.
2) To be successful the attacker must be on both sides of the trade (collecting a large USD balance, and an equal short position).
3) To achieve this the attacker must eliminate all other asks on the book that are not their own.

To execute the attack:
1) You must sell 1 XTS for 10000 USD (a very high ask if it were real USD)
2) This means you must place bids to match every ask at 1, 10, 100, 1000 USD per XTS
3) To places these bids means you must short USD at lower and lower prices
4) As you short USD at lower and lower prices you are creating more and more USD backed by less and less XTS.
5) At the end of the day you have a lot of people who long USD while you are short USD at a very low value.
*** Critical Point:  Does the rest of the market run out of money before you do ********
6) Eventually you run out of money and can no longer fight off the hoards of people selling XTS for USD
7) The value of USD starts rising absent your manipulation until your short position is blown.
8) Those who were buying USD while you were shorting knew at the time of purchase that USD wasn't pegged to the dollar and they bought knowing their max return would be 2x on their XTS.   So these buyers of USD gladly sell their USD at a 2x profit even if it is below the dollar peg.
9) The market will continue to correct until all of the attackers USD has been covered and his collateral lost.
10) The peg is restored and all is well.

Some things to note:
1) During the attack many legitimate shorts will start covering to lock in their profits and thus make it more difficult to maintain the attack
2) During the attack many savvy users will start buying USD at the huge discount.  If BitUSD is currently 10% of real USD then you buy it because you know it has collateral worth 20% of real USD backing it.  Sure you don't get to realize a 10x gain when it returns to market peg, but you still get a free 2x gain on the return to market peg.  For this reason, BitUSD is a solid buy any time it is below parity and profit can be made by selling BitUSD for XTS even below market peg if you bought it at an even lower point.

What this means is that only the attacker's short positions get blown out, and everyone else still profits.   In this case I consider an attacker anyone who shorts BitUSD when BitUSD is already below USD value. 

So the attacker has to clear the order book of all orders but their own, create a large short against their own ASK so they end up being LONG and SHORT a significant amount of USD.       To execute this attack requires:

1) Enough XTS to buy out all existing asks while having enough XTS to keep the market open, so lets call that 2% of XTS
2) The ability to execute your attack faster than the rest of the market participants can enter to take your money.
       - shorts entering to cover at a profit
       - asks entering to buy USD cheap

I think that the 2% attack threshold is only viable if the rest of the network is idle, in practice I suspect that the market depth could be 10% and would grow as the attacker attempted to push down USD. 

Lastly I would like to submit one last fail-safe feature:  Delegates
  To execute any attack requires delegates to include your transactions in the first place and for regular users to propagate your transactions.  For this reason an attacker would have to connect directly to a delegate that will include their transaction because it is unlikely to propagate among regular users.   If there are good delegates then the market can function with little opportunity to attack.





For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline ebit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: ebit
telegram:ebit521
https://weibo.com/ebiter

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
for the logic of margin call.
don't buy USD directly from market.
If 200 XTS backup for 100 short position of USD
Just make an ask order,
Code: [Select]
ask NETWORK  200 XTS 100/200 USD  //buy 100 USD with price 0.5 USD/XTS

after match of  this order, destroy both 100 USD and the short position.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:26:17 pm by alt »

Offline dxtr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • United We Stand, Dispersed We Are.
    • View Profile
What happened to Trading Open/Halt Conditions as described here: http://v3.bitshares.org/banking/ ?

Are those going to be implemented or what other mechanism is going to be there to enable trading with sufficient market depth?
Help me out:     wallet_approve_delegate mr.scroodge true

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
I have an idea to avoid the attack with almost no limit to the market. I will post this evening.

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk
I try to write clearly.

this is the command to short USD
Code: [Select]
short alt  20  0.18 USD      // short USD with 20 XTS , and use these USD to buy XTS  at price 0.18 USD / XTS

when delegate commit this transmit to block, the logic is:
1. scanning recently blocks, find the high price USD have sell in each block. we can use the recently 360 blocks.
    At the beginning, there are not enough blocks, we can define an initial price, like 0.2 USD/XTS.
2. use this price to calculate how much USD can create with 20 XTS, if the price is 0.2, for double backup,  the amount is 20*(0.2/2) = 2 USD.
3. these 2 USD belong to alt directly, and make it as a normal bid order, use 2 USD to buy XTS at price 0.18 USD/XTS.

the order list of alt is:
1. 20 XTS backup for 2 USD short position.
2. an order claim by bid:
Code: [Select]
bid alt 2/0.18 XTS 0.18 USD // buy 2/0.18 XTS at price 0.18 USD/XTS
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:32:53 pm by alt »

Offline spartako

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile

Thanks spartako! Just registered as a delegate.

Please wallet_approve_delegate bitsapphire true so we can do some testing on our server this round.

BTW, has anybody built a tool for delegate server monitoring yet? Email notifications or anything?

It seems the voting doesn't work in this run, there are only init delegates in the first 101.
I don't know any tool for monitoring delegate, but there is the rpc interface and in theory anyone can write his own tool.
wallet_account_set_approval spartako

Offline itnom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
    • Bitsapphire - The web development group that makes disruptive startups happen

Sent
Code: [Select]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-07-17T13:53:18 5200      spartako-w          itnom               100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS    63bd94d

Thanks spartako! Just registered as a delegate.

Please wallet_approve_delegate bitsapphire true so we can do some testing on our server this round.

BTW, has anybody built a tool for delegate server monitoring yet? Email notifications or anything?
Back our bid as a BitShares Delegate! http://bitsapphire.com/Bitshares-Delegate

wallet_approve_delegate bitsapphire true

Offline spartako

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
There is the CNY/XTS market blocked for:

Code: [Select]
Bid Depth: 253,164.55696 XTS     Ask Depth: 252,091.65001 XTS
Last Error:  insufficient collateral (37004)


Details:
37004 insufficient_collateral: insufficient collateral

I think the problem it is this order:
Code: [Select]
bid_order   0.00000 XTS         100. CNY / XTS   0.0009 CNY    0.0000 CNY         N/A       XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv

But I'm unable to remove it:
Code: [Select]
default (unlocked) >>> wallet_market_cancel_order XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv
31005 insufficient_funds: insufficient funds

    {"amount":-4349999,"current_bid->balance":9}
    th_a  market_operations.cpp:35 evaluate

    {"*this":{"amount":-4349999,"bid_index":{"order_price":{"ratio":"10.","quote_asset_id":14,"base_asset_id":0},"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}}}
    th_a  market_operations.cpp:60 evaluate

    {"op":{"type":"bid_op_type","data":{"amount":-4349999,"bid_index":{"order_price":{"ratio":"10.","quote_asset_id":14,"base_asset_id":0},"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}}}}
    th_a  operation_factory.hpp:52 evaluate

    {"trx":{"expiration":"20140717T155945","delegate_slate_id":null,"operations":[{"type":"bid_op_type","data":{"amount":-4349999,"bid_index":{"order_price":{"ratio":"10.","quote_asset_id":14,"base_asset_id":0},"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}}},{"type":"deposit_op_type","data":{"amount":4349999,"condition":{"asset_id":14,"delegate_slate_id":0,"type":"withdraw_signature_type","data":{"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv","memo":null}}}},{"type":"withdraw_op_type","data":{"balance_id":"XTSDtmByRShgZqeHZpCcpdvyuC7CR9Wiic1C","amount":10000,"claim_input_data":""}}],"signatures":["207361eb388718318ac6241a923cf7c2f7e82b8ef5035ab7cce8f314bc45e04abb5a316fe0f0e0d03b499070e72d9dcc1e8b48b7f767473d5599f7ddb446f59d00","1fb073d5ef0290b7688477910f1ca4511d21b26f8207a58deb6feb0d3ad56466e599bb6eaebde9823e3de92f21b285c23189856208b68bb8ba9f36d6ff73c1f81f"]}}
    th_a  transaction_evaluation_state.cpp:218 evaluate

    {"trx":{"expiration":"20140717T155945","delegate_slate_id":null,"operations":[{"type":"bid_op_type","data":{"amount":-4349999,"bid_index":{"order_price":{"ratio":"10.","quote_asset_id":14,"base_asset_id":0},"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}}},{"type":"deposit_op_type","data":{"amount":4349999,"condition":{"asset_id":14,"delegate_slate_id":0,"type":"withdraw_signature_type","data":{"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv","memo":null}}}},{"type":"withdraw_op_type","data":{"balance_id":"XTSDtmByRShgZqeHZpCcpdvyuC7CR9Wiic1C","amount":10000,"claim_input_data":""}}],"signatures":["207361eb388718318ac6241a923cf7c2f7e82b8ef5035ab7cce8f314bc45e04abb5a316fe0f0e0d03b499070e72d9dcc1e8b48b7f767473d5599f7ddb446f59d00","1fb073d5ef0290b7688477910f1ca4511d21b26f8207a58deb6feb0d3ad56466e599bb6eaebde9823e3de92f21b285c23189856208b68bb8ba9f36d6ff73c1f81f"]}}
    th_a  chain_database.cpp:1562 evaluate_transaction

    {"trx":{"expiration":"20140717T155945","delegate_slate_id":null,"operations":[{"type":"bid_op_type","data":{"amount":-4349999,"bid_index":{"order_price":{"ratio":"10.","quote_asset_id":14,"base_asset_id":0},"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}}},{"type":"deposit_op_type","data":{"amount":4349999,"condition":{"asset_id":14,"delegate_slate_id":0,"type":"withdraw_signature_type","data":{"owner":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv","memo":null}}}},{"type":"withdraw_op_type","data":{"balance_id":"XTSDtmByRShgZqeHZpCcpdvyuC7CR9Wiic1C","amount":10000,"claim_input_data":""}}],"signatures":["207361eb388718318ac6241a923cf7c2f7e82b8ef5035ab7cce8f314bc45e04abb5a316fe0f0e0d03b499070e72d9dcc1e8b48b7f767473d5599f7ddb446f59d00","1fb073d5ef0290b7688477910f1ca4511d21b26f8207a58deb6feb0d3ad56466e599bb6eaebde9823e3de92f21b285c23189856208b68bb8ba9f36d6ff73c1f81f"]}}
    th_a  chain_database.cpp:1953 store_pending_transaction

    {}
    th_a  wallet.cpp:1540 sign_and_cache_transaction

    {"owner_address":"XTSPGVcDPth86ckk2RpT9ufDKpfghZPobUgv"}
    th_a  wallet.cpp:2852 cancel_market_order

    {}
    th_a  common_api_client.cpp:1331 wallet_market_cancel_order

    {"command":"wallet_market_cancel_order"}
    th_a  cli.cpp:538 execute_command
wallet_account_set_approval spartako

Offline spartako

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Would appreciate some funds for delegate registration.

XTS64BxdfP2svYcvHdeJK6dpeisMqsEKmfJct9cYaFAPtxyUtjXEe

Sent
Code: [Select]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-07-17T13:53:18 5200      spartako-w          itnom               100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS    63bd94d
wallet_account_set_approval spartako

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil


still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

You are wrong. The point is that even at the current market cap which is approximately 20-30 mil you would have to spend 200k or 300k on acquiring shares before you could attack the network (in the future it will be much more expensive). And if you had that many shares, it would be WAY more profitable to INCREASE the value of the network than to destroy it by having some kind of attack on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you're saying we should bet the house on the premise that "a rational person probably wouldn't want to do that?" Never mind that if they did, or they weren't rational, or you misunderstood what it means for them to be rational, they would ruin everything. Our discussion about this needs to be more risk-averse. When design decisions are being dominated by people saying "We're pretty sure that shouldn't happen," my confidence gets a little shaky.
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline itnom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
    • Bitsapphire - The web development group that makes disruptive startups happen

As far as I know this dry run is already dead. Last I checked no transactions were going through. Unless anyone else knows anything different?


Well, that was fast. Europe just wakes up and things already restart ;)
Back our bid as a BitShares Delegate! http://bitsapphire.com/Bitshares-Delegate

wallet_approve_delegate bitsapphire true

Offline bdnoble

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Home Page

Would appreciate some funds for delegate registration.

XTS64BxdfP2svYcvHdeJK6dpeisMqsEKmfJct9cYaFAPtxyUtjXEe

As far as I know this dry run is already dead. Last I checked no transactions were going through. Unless anyone else knows anything different?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)

Offline bdnoble

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Home Page


still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

You are wrong. The point is that even at the current market cap which is approximately 20-30 mil you would have to spend 200k or 300k on acquiring shares before you could attack the network (in the future it will be much more expensive). And if you had that many shares, it would be WAY more profitable to INCREASE the value of the network than to destroy it by having some kind of attack on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)

Offline itnom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
    • Bitsapphire - The web development group that makes disruptive startups happen
Would appreciate some funds for delegate registration.

XTS64BxdfP2svYcvHdeJK6dpeisMqsEKmfJct9cYaFAPtxyUtjXEe
Back our bid as a BitShares Delegate! http://bitsapphire.com/Bitshares-Delegate

wallet_approve_delegate bitsapphire true

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil

still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

Totally agree, and I'm not going to hedge with "I'm not a tester." You can't build a system and say "oh that fatal fault should never happen." If the design allows it to happen, you're crazy to call that a good design. Alt just explained very clearly how a 1% attack could destroy everything you've worked for, BM says "Oh, I don't think someone would do that." Very reassuring.
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani

still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

+ 1

Offline JakeThePanda

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 233
    • View Profile

still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arrrg.  I'm not a tester, but I don't think I like this reasoning at all. Assuming that no individual person or group would spend money to harm the network is a bad assumption, especially at the early stages when the total NAV is still low.  There could be great incentives to try and destroy the network.  :o  Please tell me I don't know crap and I'm wrong because that's what I want to hear right now.  :-\

Offline Fox

I don't believe delegate voting is functioning properly.  The initial delegates are the only delegates producing blocks and the individual registered delegates are not replacing them, as their approval remains 0.0%.

Code: [Select]
blockchain_list_delegates 1 200
ID    NAME (* next in line)           APPROVAL       PRODUCED MISSED   RELIABILITY   PAY RATE PAY BALANCE         LAST BLOCK
============================================================================================================================
31    init30                          0.0000000001 % 49       0        100.00 %      100 %    0.00274 XTS         4127
83    init82                          0.0000000001 % 48       0        100.00 %      100 %    0.00269 XTS         4063
...
68    init67                          0.0000000001 % 42       0        100.00 %      100 %    0.00227 XTS         3955
22    init21 *                        0.0000000001 % 41       0        100.00 %      100 %    0.00225 XTS         4012
1     init0                           0.0000000000 % 0        42       0.00 %        100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
4     init3                           0.0000000000 % 0        44       0.00 %        100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
5     init4                           0.0000000000 % 0        44       0.00 %        100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
6     init5                           0.0000000000 % 0        46       0.00 %        100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
7     init6                           0.0000000000 % 0        44       0.00 %        100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
104   alexxy                          0.0000000000 % 0        0        N/A           100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
169   fox                             0.0000000000 % 0        0        N/A           100 %    0.00000 XTS         NONE
298   hackfisher-test                 0.0000000000 % 0        0        N/A           50 %     0.00000 XTS         NONE
299   bitcoiners                      0.0000000000 % 0        0        N/A           1 %      0.00000 XTS         NONE
300   bits                            0.0000000000 % 0        0        N/A           1 %      0.00000 XTS         NONE
...
   

Five of the initial delegates have failed to produce a single block, which matched well with the network block production stat:
Code: [Select]
get_info
{
  "blockchain_head_block_num": 4295,
  "blockchain_head_block_age": "2 seconds old",
  "blockchain_head_block_timestamp": "20140717T111410",
  "blockchain_average_delegate_participation": 96.19047619047619,
...
}

Is this by design for Dry Run 10?
Witness: fox

Offline alexxy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
when compiling new binaries i get this error when trying to update submodules

Code: [Select]
git submodule update
Code: [Select]
xxx:bitshares_toolkit x$ git submodule update
fatal: reference is not a tree: d539f9d42d6283c1739bf2bfbdd3b367263372f8
Unable to checkout 'd539f9d42d6283c1739bf2bfbdd3b367263372f8' in submodule path 'programs/web_wallet'

Any ideas?

Do

Code: [Select]
cd programs/web_wallet
git reset --hard origin/master
git checkout master
cd ../../
Vote for my delegates! alexxy | lexx
PTS: PmraxfZ852y9oEKrYMLX1ee3e4qRWPUTFC
BTS: alexxy

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
when compiling new binaries i get this error when trying to update submodules

Code: [Select]
git submodule update
Code: [Select]
xxx:bitshares_toolkit x$ git submodule update
fatal: reference is not a tree: d539f9d42d6283c1739bf2bfbdd3b367263372f8
Unable to checkout 'd539f9d42d6283c1739bf2bfbdd3b367263372f8' in submodule path 'programs/web_wallet'

Any ideas?
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline alexxy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Vote for my delegates =D
Vote for my delegates! alexxy | lexx
PTS: PmraxfZ852y9oEKrYMLX1ee3e4qRWPUTFC
BTS: alexxy

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
I have an idea to avoid the attack with almost no limit to the market. I will post this evening.

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk


Offline CalabiYau

Code: [Select]
2014-07-17T06:44:50 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-Fu6kwjtG      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 10 USD                   cc2f930
2014-07-17T06:46:08 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-78uDffJU      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 10 USD                   efdad3d
2014-07-17T06:46:28 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-D8JRt1dd      1,000.00000 XTS         0.10000 XTS         sell 1000 XTS @ 100 USD                 b40a4a0
2014-07-17T06:50:47 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-Cdu36eNu      700.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 700 XTS @ 0.0163086 USD            aae010f
2014-07-17T06:53:14 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-CTuUY6bL      700.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 700 XTS @ 5 USD                    29b9b69
2014-07-17T06:53:59 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-AP7vDi9q      1,000.00000 XTS         0.10000 XTS         sell 1000 XTS @ 90 USD                  8d04a6d
2014-07-17T06:54:21 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-LVpgB5qP      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 8 USD                    5accbd3
2014-07-17T06:54:40 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-CCbBjaaM      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 7 USD                    a87177f
2014-07-17T07:01:17 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-7YPmdTtN      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 7 CNY                    5853bf8
2014-07-17T07:01:24 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-BLTrMkjd      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XTS @ 8 CNY                    a24db75
2014-07-17T07:01:30 DUPLICATE calyaux             ORDER-EPrCyxoT      100.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS         sell 100 XT
whats the meaning of "duplicate" ?

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
So as far as I can tell there are no transactions being made in this chain at all. They are accepted and not pending but all blocks look empty from here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 +5%
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline bdnoble

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Home Page
So as far as I can tell there are no transactions being made in this chain at all. They are accepted and not pending but all blocks look empty from here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)

Offline jbutta2k13

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Please send funds to outernat for market testing

outernat-asia
XTS85sJKbpdE6MoovoEh4QsEyb9XWy6dgqTAbu88uNJdmQHxJ8JjL

outernat-australia
XTS64n3vYEQTeD4pBpkckpUoQkMGWQU1n2veQpu8z1pt2gmWZJTcy

outernat-northamerica
XTS5KFiB4KKFaHQDssaL7HxKBXE9J1EdqT6CJRYW5cbykn42yPJsG

Thanks

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
This is strange.. Something is wrong with latest dry run. I can not approve any delegates and looking up transactions returns null.

Code: [Select]
>>> wallet_account_transaction_history
RECEIVED            BLOCK     FROM                TO                  AMOUNT                  FEE                 MEMO                                    BALANCE                 ID     
=========================================================================================================================================================================================
...
2014-07-17T01:20:11 912       bitcoiners          bitcoiners          500.00000 XTS           0.10000 XTS                                                 37,472.30684 XTS     8143a93


Code: [Select]
default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_transaction 8143a93
null
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 01:36:28 am by bitcoinerS »
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline sfinder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
  • 4 Cores CPU+100GB SSD+anti-DDoS Pro
    • View Profile

 +5% +5% +5% +5%

still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BTC or other huge coins like LTC\NXT whales refuse to withdraw from the historical stage, they use the money in their deep pocket to buy 1% XTS, then attack it to death,just to protect their stake in their coins.

By giving up the worth of 1% XTS,the whales could benefit more from their coins by killing a strong rival.
微博:星在飘我在找|BTS X 受托人delegate ID:baidu
中国教育书店合作将20%收入捐献给贫困山区学生。
Cooperating with China Education Bookstore and will donate 20% of delegate income to the poor students

clout

  • Guest
Why do shorts not require 200% collateral?

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi

still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But how to identify attack or normal trade?
If I control a price lower or higher than 10% of current price, does it profit me?
Every one know the price can be control, do they still believe the market consensus?


Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
what

welp I guess that's all for this round

Code: [Select]
a (unlocked) >>> blockchain_market_order_book USD XTS
                  BIDS (* Short Order)                                       |                                   ASKS
TOTAL                     QUANTITY                                     PRICE | PRICE                                        QUANTITY                     TOTAL   COLLATERAL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100,000,000.0000 USD      200,000.00000 XTS                   500. USD / XTS*| 1.23 USD / XTS                        5,768.48683 XTS            7,095.2388 USD
10,000.0000 USD           10,000.00000 XTS                      1. USD / XTS*| 5. USD / XTS                          5,635.83215 XTS           28,179.1607 USD
10,000.0000 USD           20,000.00000 XTS                     0.5 USD / XTS*| 7. USD / XTS                             42.00000 XTS              294.0000 USD
3,900.0000 USD            260,000.00000 XTS                  0.015 USD / XTS*| 8. USD / XTS                             23.47369 XTS              187.7895 USD
                                                                             | 8. USD / XTS                             30.00000 XTS              240.0000 USD
                                                                             | 9. USD / XTS                             10.00000 XTS               90.0000 USD
                                                                             | 9.5 USD / XTS                         1,000.00000 XTS            9,500.0000 USD
                                                                             | 10.1 USD / XTS                           20.00000 XTS              202.0000 USD
                                                                             | 10.2 USD / XTS                            2.00000 XTS               20.4000 USD
                                                                             | 11. USD / XTS                            30.00000 XTS              330.0000 USD
                                                                             | 15. USD / XTS                       100,000.00000 XTS        1,500,000.0000 USD
                                                                             | 500. USD / XTS                      200,000.00000 XTS      100,000,000.0000 USD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                             |                                   MARGIN
                                                                             | CALL PRICE                                   QUANTITY                     TOTAL   COLLATERAL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                             | 5.33333333333333333 USD / XTS             2.81250 XTS1,844,674,407,370,895.1618 USD   3.75000 XTS
                                                                             | 5.33332788529704396 USD / XTS             0.61184 XTS1,844,674,407,370,942.1091 USD   0.81579 XTS
                                                                             | 3.55555407407407407 USD / XTS            67.50000 XTS              239.9999 USD   90.00000 XTS
                                                                             | 3.55554962962962962 USD / XTS            16.87500 XTS               59.9999 USD   22.50000 XTS
                                                                             | 3.55554950218602307 USD / XTS             3.67105 XTS               13.0526 USD   4.89474 XTS
                                                                             | 3.55554511348600093 USD / XTS            14.68419 XTS               52.2103 USD   19.57892 XTS
                                                                             | 3.33333333333333333 USD / XTS            64.28571 XTS              214.2857 USD   85.71428 XTS
                                                                             | 3.33333332111111103 USD / XTS         2,727.27271 XTS            9,090.9090 USD   3,636.36362 XTS
                                                                             | 3.33333331557777765 USD / XTS         3,754.69335 XTS           12,515.6444 USD   5,006.25780 XTS
                                                                             | 0.81999998503293482 USD / XTS         6,347.26975 XTS            5,204.7611 USD   8,463.02634 XTS
                                                                             | 0.01 USD / XTS                        1,050.00000 XTS               10.5000 USD   1,400.00000 XTS
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster


still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

It is just a matter of scale.  Attacking the network in such a manner would destroy the network and make your 1% worthless.  We can set that value as high as 5% or more.  The assumption is anyone with that much steak we not want to harm the network.  No one else would participate in the network and instead could go to a new bit asset.  You and then be trading against yourself and not profit at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline alt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2821
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: baozi
still can attack with these rules, if I have about 1% XTS.

1. use about 10^7 XTS  or more, control the price to 500USD/XTS, get about 5*10^9 USD
2. usd about 10^7 XTS or more + maybe 10^5 USD, control the price to 0.0005USD/XTS,get all the backup XTS.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
just reduced depth requirement to 200,000 XTS so maybe we have a chance of bitasset trading
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline HackFisher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
    • View Profile
Who could send 20,000,000 XTS  to me? Thanks.

Edit: I forgot to post my account name, sent to this account "hackfisher-test", thanks again.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:36:11 pm by HackFisher »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
    • View Profile
Good song choice!

   :)    ;)    :D   ;D                 :)    ;)    :D   ;D              :)    ;)    :D   ;D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:14:49 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
On every Dry Run please provide links to github and standard steps like on the first Dry Runs so
newcomers will find easier the information's needed to get involved ASAP ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:00:52 pm by liondani »

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
USD/XTS market is frozen because negative cover amount means it is impossible to buy enough USD to cover.... move your bitasset testing to CNY/XTS

latest code will let you vote for delegates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47fEXGabaY

Please test our markets!

New constraints on BitAsset market:

*   All market-issued assets will have a minimum/maximum price ratio set to be wide enough to cover all eventualities.  IE: BitUSD would be limited to .0005 USD per XTS and $500 USD per XTS which is simply assuming the market cap for XTS will be between $1 trillion USD and $1 million USD.   

*  When a short position is blown out beyond the ability to cover all trading in that asset stops as this likely represents a large transient of BTS X falling in value by 50% in a very short period of time.   To resume the market someone has to sell dollars at the specified price.

*  Trading does not occur if there is at least 0.5% XTS on *both* sides of a BitAsset market.



So you might find it easier to test out user-issued asset markets since they trade at any depth, but also please place orders on USD/BTSX CNY/BTSX so we can test it. We'll help jumpstart it too.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 04:32:52 pm by toast »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.