Author Topic: 5 people control about 1/3 of the delegates.  (Read 14532 times)

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Offline GaltReport

I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.

Voted you back!  Mine is probably worth much less than yours  but  thanks for your help.  I want to make sure there are alternatives in the event we have  rogue or unethical delegates.  I just want to help.  I also run TOR relay(s).

I live/work "up  the road" from Invictus in Northern Virginia and am more than willing to provide my personal contact info to them to verify who i am and my intentions. 

Do I need to open port 41789 ? I saw  something listening for p2p connections on that port.

The ports with these high numbers are due to the automatic upnp.

so no need to specifically open any ports or startup options for the client? (I guess that is the purpose of 'automatic'?)

oh, looks like it's working!!  I will endeavor to keep it running!! 

Thanks to all.  I'm willing to run more delegates if it helps.

If you are interested in where I am coming from, you can checkout my website listed in my profile. 

Take my word for it, I've seen the beast and engaged in (legal) battle with it.  So far, I've survived....

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 08:54:17 pm by GaltReport »

Offline vikram

I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.

Voted you back!  Mine is probably worth much less than yours  but  thanks for your help.  I want to make sure there are alternatives in the event we have  rogue or unethical delegates.  I just want to help.  I also run TOR relay(s).

I live/work "up  the road" from Invictus in Northern Virginia and am more than willing to provide my personal contact info to them to verify who i am and my intentions. 

Do I need to open port 41789 ? I saw  something listening for p2p connections on that port.

The ports with these high numbers are due to the automatic upnp.

Offline Stan

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It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

that is our, as delegates and users, responsibility.
See:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5933
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=61.0

Darwinian natural selection and survival of the fittest - by Design. 

:)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline puppies

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I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.

Strangely my wallet reports your account is not registered as a delegate, just a regular user.

My qt_wallet does the same when I look him up under directory, but the console shows him registered and allowed me to vote.
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Offline bytemaster

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline GaltReport

I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.

Voted you back!  Mine is probably worth much less than yours  but  thanks for your help.  I want to make sure there are alternatives in the event we have  rogue or unethical delegates.  I just want to help.  I also run TOR relay(s).

I live/work "up  the road" from Invictus in Northern Virginia and am more than willing to provide my personal contact info to them to verify who i am and my intentions. 

Do I need to open port 41789 ? I saw  something listening for p2p connections on that port.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 05:44:57 pm by GaltReport »

Offline bytemaster

I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.

Strangely my wallet reports your account is not registered as a delegate, just a regular user.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline puppies

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I voted for you galt.  Sadly (or not depending on how you look at it)  it would take roughly 10000 times my stake level to elect you.
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Offline GaltReport

delegate1-galt  is not registered on the network.

Does that mean  it's not  registered?  I see it  in the  directory as a delegate.  Is there a special command to "register on the network" or some config/ports that need to be open?  I'm thinking maybe some comms issue??

wallet_show_my_accounts

NAME (* delegate)                  KEY                                                             REGISTERED            FAVORITE       APPROVED       BLOCK PRODUCTION ENABLED
delegate1-galt *                   BTSX7CRAW6ajvXaAUYcbTmahTDzbXiddXzUFXhbKPwZKfz85nKRCtG          2014-07-22T03:24:10   NO             1              YES


get_info

mywallet (unlocked) >>> get_info
{
  "blockchain_head_block_num": 28881,
  "blockchain_head_block_age": "7 seconds old",
  "blockchain_head_block_timestamp": "20140722T162010",
  "blockchain_average_delegate_participation": 96.19047619047619,
  "blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": 225034,
  "blockchain_blocks_left_in_round": 5,
  "blockchain_confirmation_requirement": 1,
  "blockchain_accumulated_fees": "272,201.52373 BTSX",
  "blockchain_share_supply": 199972779829550,
  "blockchain_random_seed": "24e42f65289faf1f0764b99fbf6325955adf3a9d",
  "blockchain_database_version": 115,
  "blockchain_version": 109,
  "network_num_connections": 16,
  "network_num_connections_max": 100,
  "network_protocol_version": 104,
  "ntp_time": "20140722T162017",
  "ntp_error": 0.00071100000000000004,
  "wallet_open": true,
  "wallet_unlocked": true,
  "wallet_unlocked_until": "44 years  in the future",
  "wallet_unlocked_until_timestamp": "19230220T101923",
  "wallet_block_production_enabled": true,
  "wallet_next_block_production_time": null,
  "wallet_next_block_production_timestamp": null,
  "wallet_version": 100
}

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 04:41:37 pm by GaltReport »

Offline maqifrnswa

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It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

that is our, as delegates and users, responsibility.
See:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5933
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=61.0
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline maqifrnswa

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There are some delegates not producing any blocks at right now.
Can you, Bytemaster, swap scroodge for one of them, I worked quite well during dry runs?

I will try to get some polish folks in, with incentives from delegate's paycheck.

there may have been a bug that knocked lots of people off the p2p network.
see:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6003
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline dxtr

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There are some delegates not producing any blocks at right now.
Can you, Bytemaster, swap scroodge for one of them, I worked quite well during dry runs?

I will try to get some polish folks in, with incentives from delegate's paycheck.

Help me out:     wallet_approve_delegate mr.scroodge true

Offline bytemaster

delegate1-galt  is not registered on the network.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline GaltReport

That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

I have one delegate and I can't get into the top 101 either.  Paying good money for it. Probably cancel it later today.

It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

Greg what was your delegate ID?  I'll vote for you.

skyscraperfarms


Thanks!

I will vote for you too. (not that my vote does much now  :-[ )
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:13:56 pm by GaltReport »

Offline GaltReport

That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

I have one delegate and I can't get into the top 101 either.  Paying good money for it. Probably cancel it later today.

It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

Greg what was your delegate ID?  I'll vote for you.

How about giving delegate1-galt   a chance to work  for you?  I just was trying to verify it was working before asking.  if he's not good, fire him and I will fix him or build a better delegate!!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:07:30 pm by GaltReport »

Ggozzo

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That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

I have one delegate and I can't get into the top 101 either.  Paying good money for it. Probably cancel it later today.

It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

Greg what was your delegate ID?  I'll vote for you.

skyscraperfarms


Thanks!


Offline bytemaster

That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

I have one delegate and I can't get into the top 101 either.  Paying good money for it. Probably cancel it later today.

It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".

Greg what was your delegate ID?  I'll vote for you.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Ggozzo

  • Guest
That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

I have one delegate and I can't get into the top 101 either.  Paying good money for it. Probably cancel it later today.

It seems to be ironic that there is a need for unique qualified delegates but there is no way verify the uniqueness or qualifications of any delegate. So I sense a hesitancy to vote for people that aren't already "in".


Offline emski

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That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

I have no delegates in top101. I'm ready to operate a node.
You may try voting in some of the delegate(s) hosted by me:

emski
angel-delegate
lotto-delegate
immortal

They have dedicated hardware. Backup internet connection. UPS. SSD.
They proved reliable during dry runs.

Offline GaltReport

BTSX76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV adds just fine.  Not sure if thats your key though.

Not anymore.  blew that away.  Now I have: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q

which I also can't add.

Looks like you built from the test network code (XTS prefix) and not the dacsunlimited code (BTSX prefix)

Yes, i got that fixed and registered  delegate1-galt as a delegate.  Just not sure if  it's all working.  I have a log file that shows a lot of this stuff:

 Peer 178.62.50.61:1776 is disconnecting us because: I rejected your connection request (hello message ) so I'm disconnecting                   node.cpp:2119
20140722T122543.695612       th_a            read_loop ] disconnected 0 exception: unspecified
Bad file descriptor
    {"message":"Bad file descriptor"}
    asio  asio.cpp:28 read_write_handler


do I need to set  config files  and/or open any ports?

Offline bytemaster

BTSX76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV adds just fine.  Not sure if thats your key though.

Not anymore.  blew that away.  Now I have: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q

which I also can't add.

Looks like you built from the test network code (XTS prefix) and not the dacsunlimited code (BTSX prefix)
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline GaltReport

ah, how would one test if your proposed delegate actually works? 

BTW, any config files need to be set to anything?  ports opened?

I see a log file with a  lot of this:

 Peer 178.62.50.61:1776 is disconnecting us because: I rejected your connection request (hello message ) so I'm disconnecting                   node.cpp:2119
20140722T122543.695612       th_a            read_loop ] disconnected 0 exception: unspecified
Bad file descriptor
    {"message":"Bad file descriptor"}
    asio  asio.cpp:28 read_write_handler

I'm thinking that this is not good....

(just noticed I became a full member during this process.  :) )
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 12:31:58 pm by GaltReport »

Offline GaltReport

Now that I have "registered", how do I register as a delegate?

Never mind.  Finally figured it out. 

If you choose to, you can vote for my fledgling delegate that keeps only 5% of fees:

delegate1-galt

Good dedicated server that will hopefully prove to be reliable.  In the coming days I will speak to the community more about why you might want to vote for my delegate(s). For now, thanks again for those that helped me get setup and thanks to Bytemaster and his team for build instructions that actually worked! So important and so hard to do!!

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:41:47 am by GaltReport »

merockstar

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Due to low voter turn out our stake is enough to be "king maker" until more people bring their stake on line.   The only qualification I am looking for right now is someone who has made a public attempt to engage the community and recrute votes.   If someone wants to be a delegate and cannot get the votes then contact me and you will be put in.

That said, if I vote for someone who doesn't perform then I remove my vote and select someone else.

I would love to just remove my stake and let others decide, but there is at least one actor out there with 1.5% of the stake whom I do not trust based upon their attempt to leverage the good names of people in the crypto-community to get votes.   

So if someone wants to help increase decentralization then I will vote them in.   None of the delegates that are in right now are there solely because they voted for themselves.  They are there mostly because I have bumped them with ~3% of the vote from the PTS Angel address.

gotcha!

I will look into setting up a VPS and seeing if I can't delegate myself up.

EDIT: what specs should I be looking for in a VPS? anyone have any recommendations for a good one that accepts bitcoin? anyone super technical willing to help me out if I have questions (i'm sure it'll happen)?

I'm only doing this to help get the network through this initial bootstrapping. I'm not serious as a candidate, but who knows where it could go if it works out.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Virtual_private_server
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:32:00 am by merockstar »

Offline GaltReport

Now that I have "registered", how do I register as a delegate?

Offline GaltReport

Success!! Thanks Puppies and GregGozzzo.

Got it built and registered my account.  So good so far.


Offline GaltReport

As this is building I ponder the fact that the I3 "partnered" with a Hong Kong organization to launch this and am just wondering....and assuming....that running a delegate is okay here in the U.S.?? LOL

Not that I am looking for legal advice or anything...LOL

(who would have thought that THIS was how they would finally get me!)

Offline GaltReport

As this is building I ponder the fact that the I3 "partnered" with a Hong Kong organization to launch this and am just wondering....and assuming....that running a delegate is okay here in the U.S.?? LOL

Not that I am looking for legal advice or anything...LOL

Offline GaltReport

Everything else is the same.
 Git submodule init
Git submodule update
Cmake .
Make

Thanks, building now.

Offline puppies

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Everything else is the same.
git submodule init
git submodule update
cmake .
make

Edited to remove caps my phone threw in because it is stupid.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:26:35 am by puppies »
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Offline GaltReport


Offline puppies

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Offline GaltReport

you are on the current build?

if all else fails, just register on your windows and then import the private key.

That might merge the two though.

I used: https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

Yeah those instructions are no longer correct.  replace
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares_toolkit.git
cd bitshares_toolkit
with
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx.git
cd bitsharesx
git  checkout 0.2.1

Okay, I will git it a try.  Maybe that was for dry-run?

Ggozzo

  • Guest
you are on the current build?

if all else fails, just register on your windows and then import the private key.

That might merge the two though.

I used: https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

wallet_list_my_accounts shows: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q as the key.

Not sure man. I imported a private key to fund and register my account. There has to be a way to fund without having a genesis stake and importing the privkey. Summon bytemaster.

Offline puppies

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you are on the current build?

if all else fails, just register on your windows and then import the private key.

That might merge the two though.

I used: https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

Yeah those instructions are no longer correct.  replace
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares_toolkit.git
cd bitshares_toolkit
with
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx.git
cd bitsharesx
git  checkout 0.2.1
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline GaltReport

you are on the current build?

if all else fails, just register on your windows and then import the private key.

That might merge the two though.

I used: https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

wallet_list_my_accounts shows: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q as the key.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 01:57:22 am by GaltReport »

Ggozzo

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you are on the current build?

if all else fails, just register on your windows and then import the private key.

That might merge the two though.

Offline puppies

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BTSX76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV adds just fine.  Not sure if thats your key though.

Not anymore.  blew that away.  Now I have: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q

which I also can't add.
I don't think that's the right set of keys.   Try a wallet _ list _ my _ accounts on your Linux box and get the key that way.   It should start with BTSX not XTS. 

Now that I think of it,  did you build the source code from github.com/bitshares/bitshares _ toolkit or from github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx?
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Offline GaltReport

Try

wallet_list_my_accounts

does it give you anything?
yes, it gives me my account with the key: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q

I'm wondering if I need to open up any ports on my server??

Ggozzo

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Try

wallet_list_my_accounts

does it give you anything?

Offline GaltReport

BTSX76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV adds just fine.  Not sure if thats your key though.

Not anymore.  blew that away.  Now I have: XTS6v4boE6wB42Lp21tiFZRUc5kDq21UHFKXEhBf9EUJm1dvBNu8q

which I also can't add.

Offline puppies

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BTSX76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV adds just fine.  Not sure if thats your key though.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline puppies

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Galt,

Yes. Do it soon. I paid 7 BTS yesterday to register, so the price may go up. :)

Okay, just not sure how to send it to my delegate account that isn't registered yet.



wallet_add_contact_account <account name> <public key>

When I tried to add that key you posted it threw an error though.

Yeah, I got 10 assert exception.

Same here.  The
Code: [Select]
base58str.substr( 0, prefix_len ) == BTS_ADDRESS_PREFIX:
    {"base58str":"XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV"}
    bitshares  types.cpp:22 public_key_type
part of the error leads me to believe that the key is not valid.  I would double check it if I was you.  If that doesn't work delete that local account (on your linux box) and create a new one.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline GaltReport

Galt,

Yes. Do it soon. I paid 7 BTS yesterday to register, so the price may go up. :)

Okay, just not sure how to send it to my delegate account that isn't registered yet.

wallet_add_contact_account <account name> <public key>

When I tried to add that key you posted it threw an error though.

Yeah, I got 10 assert exception.

Offline puppies

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Galt,

Yes. Do it soon. I paid 7 BTS yesterday to register, so the price may go up. :)

Okay, just not sure how to send it to my delegate account that isn't registered yet.

wallet_add_contact_account <account name> <public key>

When I tried to add that key you posted it threw an error though.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline GaltReport

Galt,

Yes. Do it soon. I paid 7 BTS yesterday to register, so the price may go up. :)

Okay, just not sure how to send it to my delegate account that isn't registered yet.

Ggozzo

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Galt,

Yes. Do it soon. I paid 7 BTS yesterday to register, so the price may go up. :)

Offline liondani

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Due to low voter turn out our stake is enough to be "king maker" until more people bring their stake on line.   The only qualification I am looking for right now is someone who has made a public attempt to engage the community and recrute votes.   If someone wants to be a delegate and cannot get the votes then contact me and you will be put in.

That said, if I vote for someone who doesn't perform then I remove my vote and select someone else.

I would love to just remove my stake and let others decide, but there is at least one actor out there with 1.5% of the stake whom I do not trust based upon their attempt to leverage the good names of people in the crypto-community to get votes.   

So if someone wants to help increase decentralization then I will vote them in.   None of the delegates that are in right now are there solely because they voted for themselves.  They are there mostly because I have bumped them with ~3% of the vote from the PTS Angel address.

Thanks for your trust we will make our best!

Consider voting for my delegates that are located in Greece  ;)

wallet_approve_delegate greece
wallet_approve_delegate athens


PS I think it is very importand to vote for delegates that are located in different places on the world
     So in worst case scenarios like in a world war situation it would be a quite difficult task (if not impossible) to shut BitSharesX off...

Offline GaltReport

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: delegate-galt
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Do you need some still? I will send you some to register.

Yes I do.  I am good for it I promise.  :)
Sent

Thanks, got it at my windows account so I need to send it to my ubuntu delegate account that I want to register right?  Sorry, I'm a bit new at this.

Ggozzo

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how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: delegate-galt
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Do you need some still? I will send you some to register.

Yes I do.  I am good for it I promise.  :)
Sent it to your john-galt account. 17BTS

Offline GaltReport

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: delegate-galt
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Do you need some still? I will send you some to register.

Yes I do.  I am good for it I promise.  :)

Offline GaltReport

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Galt, I would gladly do that for you, but my funds are not accessible until tomorrow.   Note:   It is best not to reveal your public key and desired name publicly least someone attempt to take the name.

Okay, thanks for advice.  feel free to remove it from posts if you can.  I can change it if needed.

Ggozzo

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how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: delegate-galt
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Do you need some still? I will send you some to register.

Offline bytemaster

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: delegate-galt
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV


Galt, I would gladly do that for you, but my funds are not accessible until tomorrow.   Note:   It is best not to reveal your public key and desired name publicly least someone attempt to take the name.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Due to low voter turn out our stake is enough to be "king maker" until more people bring their stake on line.   The only qualification I am looking for right now is someone who has made a public attempt to engage the community and recrute votes.   If someone wants to be a delegate and cannot get the votes then contact me and you will be put in.

That said, if I vote for someone who doesn't perform then I remove my vote and select someone else.

I would love to just remove my stake and let others decide, but there is at least one actor out there with 1.5% of the stake whom I do not trust based upon their attempt to leverage the good names of people in the crypto-community to get votes.   

So if someone wants to help increase decentralization then I will vote them in.   None of the delegates that are in right now are there solely because they voted for themselves.  They are there mostly because I have bumped them with ~3% of the vote from the PTS Angel address.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline GaltReport

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

account: xxxxxxxxx
public key: XTS76TAEgPBhGNfgkfNjPmzEu31a2kGqYUL2umUFZaSYWi1R57CiV

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 12:54:40 am by GaltReport »

Offline GaltReport

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.

It seems the instructions actually work!!  I'm a bit shocked that everything is working as instructed after a previous experience spending a week or 2 getting the Bitcoin to compile with all it's libraries etc....

seems I'm just missing BTSX to become a delegate now.  I got ubuntu working and wallet created etc...but can't register my delegate due to no BTSX.  I only have some on Bter and can't withdraw. 

Anyone know when we will be able to withdraw BTSX on Bter?

Hate to ask....but....Bytemaster can you register my delegate account with the native_pubkey that shows from wallet_account_list_public_keys ??

merockstar

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how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

so you're saying there are plenty of unique delegates out there, they just haven't been voted in yet?

Yes, it appears that a few people with lots of BTSX are voting in all of their aliases, so they keep all the fees for themselves (thus the title of the thread).

ahhh I understand now! I won't worry about it then.

that sucks.

EDIT: I got the impression that more candidates were needed from this quote:


We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)



but I see now that the operative word is qualified

bowing out now.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 12:10:38 am by merockstar »

Offline maqifrnswa

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how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

so you're saying there are plenty of unique delegates out there, they just haven't been voted in yet?

Yes, it appears that a few people with lots of BTSX are voting in all of their aliases, so they keep all the fees for themselves (thus the title of the thread).
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline santaclause102

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

you should only ban what you can enforce.  Can you really enforce a no-pay?  Whats to stop people from paying for "marketing" and it goes to a mass sender going out to their secret backers?
If one delegate is beginning to prove his marketing efforts it will pressure the others to do the same.
I meant a "soft ban" = discussing it, educating people that the personal benefits for them are tiny but the potential harm to the network can be big which harms them a lot as they are shareholders. "Ban" is maybe not the right word. More something like a "social ban". This seems to be against crypto principles but the byzantine generals problems has not been solved by anyone in the space yet. POW, POS and DPOS all have the potential for centralization and it can not be avoided solely by technical means (up to now, lets see).

The problem with a "social ban" is you leave the option to pay for votes only to users already willing to ignore the social norms.  So you take away the quite useful tool of compensating your supporters from those who are willing to follow your rules, which makes it harder for "good" actors to succeed.

So again, I'd really discourage the "banning" of tactics that are actually able to be banned, and don't rely on people following rules.  Good people will follow rules to their detriment, bad people will ignore the rules because nothing makes them stop and they'll have an easier time onboarding support because they have a tool in their arsenal those following the rules do not.
Quote
The problem with a "social ban" is you leave the option to pay for votes only to users already willing to ignore the social norms.  So you take away the quite useful tool of compensating your supporters from those who are willing to follow your rules, which makes it harder for "good" actors to succeed.
I did not quite get that paragraph.
Quote
only to users already willing to ignore the social norms
that would still decrease the number of those who vote for pay back delegates.
Quote
the quite useful tool of compensating your supporters
If you look at the system as a whole it is not a useful tool to compensate those who vote for you.
Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966  ?

merockstar

  • Guest
how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

so you're saying there are plenty of unique delegates out there, they just haven't been voted in yet?

Offline maqifrnswa

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how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

right now, 17 BTSX to become a delegate. You don't need anything too fancy for the vps at the moment - $10-30/month?

There are ~1000 other delegates out there, so you have to weigh the possibility of being elected to the top 101 with the cost of being a delegate.

EDIT: Either way, it's probably also good to learn about the delegates out there and vote for the "good" ones. And educate others about the "good" ones.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline GaltReport

I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.

agreed. I didn't realize there was such need for delegates. should I rent out a vps and (try) to get the code compiled for the sake of helping?

there is a need for delegates, ideally they would be 101 individuals with standing and technical experience in the community trusted to (1) not screw the system and (2) maintain/pay for their node.

to do it see:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki/DPOS-initial-delegate-setup

To be a delegate you just need to:
1) pay to be a delegate (set up an account, give it some BTS, register the account, register the account as a delegate)
2) set "wallet_enable_delegate_block_production $ACCOUNT true"
3) UNLOCK YOUR WALLET and keep it unlocked!!!! set a long time out (that was my mistake at first)
4) somewhat optional, but nice to do:
network_set_advanced_node_parameters {"desired_number_of_connections":50, "maximum_number_of_connections":200}

benefits: you get a share of the transaction fees (pay_rate*10/101*transaction_fees_per_day)
costs: maintaining a vps, having to be on top of things

in theory, you should campaign and be well known. In practice, for now, it is dominated by the big accounts giving themselves a large number of delegate spots.

Thanks, I will work on this. I managed to get it installed on ubuntu using these instructions:

https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

just haven't tried running it yet.

merockstar

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I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.

agreed. I didn't realize there was such need for delegates. should I rent out a vps and (try) to get the code compiled for the sake of helping?

there is a need for delegates, ideally they would be 101 individuals with standing and technical experience in the community trusted to (1) not screw the system and (2) maintain/pay for their node.

to do it see:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki/DPOS-initial-delegate-setup

To be a delegate you just need to:
1) pay to be a delegate (set up an account, give it some BTS, register the account, register the account as a delegate)
2) set "wallet_enable_delegate_block_production $ACCOUNT true"
3) UNLOCK YOUR WALLET and keep it unlocked!!!! set a long time out (that was my mistake at first)
4) somewhat optional, but nice to do:
network_set_advanced_node_parameters {"desired_number_of_connections":50, "maximum_number_of_connections":200}

benefits: you get a share of the transaction fees (pay_rate*10/101*transaction_fees_per_day)
costs: maintaining a vps, having to be on top of things

in theory, you should campaign and be well known. In practice, for now, it is dominated by the big accounts giving themselves a large number of delegate spots.

how much does it cost?

would it really really help, or will this unique delegate problem hammer itself out in no time?

my campaign platform would be: "I don't really give a shit if you vote for me, I'm just trying to help."

Offline alt

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To be a delegate, It's not about a step by step guide.
Like the traditional IT service, you need a professional system administrators, to ensure 24 hours of service.

Offline AdamBLevine

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

you should only ban what you can enforce.  Can you really enforce a no-pay?  Whats to stop people from paying for "marketing" and it goes to a mass sender going out to their secret backers?
If one delegate is beginning to prove his marketing efforts it will pressure the others to do the same.
I meant a "soft ban" = discussing it, educating people that the personal benefits for them are tiny but the potential harm to the network can be big which harms them a lot as they are shareholders. "Ban" is maybe not the right word. More something like a "social ban". This seems to be against crypto principles but the byzantine generals problems has not been solved by anyone in the space yet. POW, POS and DPOS all have the potential for centralization and it can not be avoided solely by technical means (up to now, lets see).

The problem with a "social ban" is you leave the option to pay for votes only to users already willing to ignore the social norms.  So you take away the quite useful tool of compensating your supporters from those who are willing to follow your rules, which makes it harder for "good" actors to succeed.

So again, I'd really discourage the "banning" of tactics that are actually able to be banned, and don't rely on people following rules.  Good people will follow rules to their detriment, bad people will ignore the rules because nothing makes them stop and they'll have an easier time onboarding support because they have a tool in their arsenal those following the rules do not.


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Offline maqifrnswa

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I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.

agreed. I didn't realize there was such need for delegates. should I rent out a vps and (try) to get the code compiled for the sake of helping?

there is a need for delegates, ideally they would be 101 individuals with standing and technical experience in the community trusted to (1) not screw the system and (2) maintain/pay for their node.

to do it see:
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki/DPOS-initial-delegate-setup

To be a delegate you just need to:
1) pay to be a delegate (set up an account, give it some BTS, register the account, register the account as a delegate)
2) set "wallet_enable_delegate_block_production $ACCOUNT true"
3) UNLOCK YOUR WALLET and keep it unlocked!!!! set a long time out (that was my mistake at first)
4) somewhat optional, but nice to do:
network_set_advanced_node_parameters {"desired_number_of_connections":50, "maximum_number_of_connections":200}

benefits: you get a share of the transaction fees (pay_rate*10/101*transaction_fees_per_day)
costs: maintaining a vps, having to be on top of things

in theory, you should campaign and be well known. In practice, for now, it is dominated by the big accounts giving themselves a large number of delegate spots.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline maqifrnswa

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

I see no problem with pay back. It essentially is the equivalent of a group of people electing one person to to represent them as a delegate.

Isn't pay back the equivalent of a mining pool? people are too small to be a delegate on their own so they pitch in their votes to get a shared delegate spot.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

merockstar

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I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.

agreed. I didn't realize there was such need for delegates. should I rent out a vps and (try) to get the code compiled for the sake of helping?

Offline santaclause102

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

you should only ban what you can enforce.  Can you really enforce a no-pay?  Whats to stop people from paying for "marketing" and it goes to a mass sender going out to their secret backers?
If one delegate is beginning to prove his marketing efforts it will pressure the others to do the same.
I meant a "soft ban" = discussing it, educating people that the personal benefits for them are tiny but the potential harm to the network can be big which harms them a lot as they are shareholders. "Ban" is maybe not the right word. More something like a "social ban". This seems to be against crypto principles but the byzantine generals problems has not been solved by anyone in the space yet, not totally at least. POW, POS and DPOS all have the potential for centralization and it can not be avoided solely by technical means (up to now, lets see). 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 11:34:29 pm by delulo »

Offline alt

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I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.
Rent a VPS server ->  build the client -> register a delegate account -> ask for vote -> generate block

You can set up a team to be the delegate.
just looking for a technology partner.  :)

Offline AdamBLevine

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

you should only ban what you can enforce.  Can you really enforce a no-pay?  Whats to stop people from paying for "marketing" and it goes to a mass sender going out to their secret backers?
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline AdamBLevine

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I'm confused how I would run a delegate - I see I can register my ident, is it just as simple as doing that and then getting people to vote for me?

I think the tools are fine but the explanation for people who haven't followed every dry run are sorely lacking.  Once people understand how to be delegates or what it requires vs what its rewards are, we'll probably see less centralization.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline santaclause102

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if it is easy for delegates to see who voted for them, why won't each voter gradually drift toward the delegates that give them the highest immediate cash in return, even off-chain? this seems like an existential threat to the system, it dampens the idea that DPOS will be a force of nature, and weakens the power of decentralization by vote.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966
POW has the same problem. We should ban "pay back delegates". It is not perfect but it works for Bitcoin. There are also no pay back mining pools.
I think it might not be a problem if all shareholders that vote are educated enough that such voting behaviour harms their assets / the network they own and that (probably by far) is a bigger loss on average than the tiny gains through paid back tx fees. That is how I think about it right now. But please feel free to discuss it! I tried to spark of a solid discussion there but no one really talks about it...

Ggozzo

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That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

Look, with 101 delegates, someone is always going to say "too centralized". Even if it were 101 unique individuals. All I am saying is that it is not helping promote a decentralized perception when you can look at the delegate list and see with 100% certainty that a few people control a majority of the network. You are probably right that it will smooth out more as time passes and BTer and other exchanges enable withdraws. I have quite a few BTS I have bought waiting for withdraw.

When I said "you guys", I wasn't referring to you as in I3 or DACSunlimited, I was talking to the voters. Participation is and will be the problem.  I'll shut up now.

Offline liondani

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That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

 +5%

Well said! Make absolute sense to me.

Offline GaltReport

That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

If I wanted to act as a delegate to support Bitshares X what are the basic steps I need to take?  Setup/maintain reliable server(s)?  register as a delegate?  ask for votes? something like that?  Do I need a certain amount of BTSX in my wallet or any other requirements like that?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 10:15:14 pm by GaltReport »

Offline bytemaster

That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.

We want 100 unique individuals, but obviously there are not 100 qualified candidates right now.  Show me a list with 101 unique individuals ready to operate nodes and I will vote for them all in a minute.

Right now the system is young and is already more decentralized that bitcoin & Ripple.

You are entirely too quick to judge.  Look at the DIRECTION it is moving and not where it is.  It started out 100% centralized... now you are complaining about 5 people with about 7% control each?   And then insinuate that we want centralization?  ::)

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline gamey

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I would guess that it is probably quite a bit better than early participation by any novel POW chain.

It will get sorted out.  The guys who are willing to do sneaky things to get elected will be sussed out.  Some of have been to busy to pursue delegates at the moment.

Also the sneaky guys are likely to run multiple delegates at once.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Ggozzo

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That isn't including any of the initial delegates. And there are still 26 of those. So 6 entities control well over half the delegates.

Maybe you guys want it that way?

This is not looking very decentralized.  Especially to any newcomers.