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Offline erockskop

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The video calls bitcoin a company
« on: July 22, 2014, 01:33:44 AM »

I love the idea of bitshares. That said, people dipping there toes into this new world of bitcoin have their guard up to level 99.
The homepage video say "bitcoin is the first digital company that calls its shares coin". If people think bitcoin is a company they think it is some kind of 'for profit' entity that's trying to sell them something or doesn't have their best interests in mind.

Offline toast

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 02:25:36 AM »
Yeah the video doesn't make it clear that "DAC" is a *metaphor* and that it can be useful to analyze bitcoin as a company rather than a currency. But if we start with this approach it will make our own crypto more appealing so I'm ok with it ;)
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Offline jae208

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 06:31:58 AM »
Yeah the video doesn't make it clear that "DAC" is a *metaphor* and that it can be useful to analyze bitcoin as a company rather than a currency. But if we start with this approach it will make our own crypto more appealing so I'm ok with it ;)

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Offline MktDirector

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 07:05:51 PM »
DAC stands for decentralized autonomous company.  It's a company because it IS for profit. Profit is the incentive that makes us different from all other 2.0 technologies out there.  If something doesn't produce a profit (ie: value) then it can't thrive and grow.  The only thing that can grow without prodcing added value is government.  So are we a technical "company"? No, but that's the closest metaphor we have to describe a DAC, and thus BitShares.

merockstar

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 07:08:18 PM »
DAC stands for decentralized autonomous company.  It's a company because it IS for profit. Profit is the incentive that makes us different from all other 2.0 technologies out there.  If something doesn't produce a profit (ie: value) then it can't thrive and grow.  The only thing that can grow without prodcing added value is government.  So are we a technical "company"? No, but that's the closest metaphor we have to describe a DAC, and thus BitShares.

I'm being pedantic, but I would argue that governments do produce added value in the form of conflict resolution.

Offline toast

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 07:16:25 PM »
DAC stands for decentralized autonomous company.  It's a company because it IS for profit. Profit is the incentive that makes us different from all other 2.0 technologies out there.  If something doesn't produce a profit (ie: value) then it can't thrive and grow.  The only thing that can grow without prodcing added value is government.  So are we a technical "company"? No, but that's the closest metaphor we have to describe a DAC, and thus BitShares.

I think he meant that "The video calls bitcoin a company" - Bitcoin is not traditionally viewed as a DAC and so it can turn off newcomers who 'know we are wrong' if we don't take the time to emphasize that it is a metaphor they should consider
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 07:30:01 PM by toast »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

bitbro

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 07:18:02 PM »
The more I think about the metaphor, the more I think distributed is sometimes better than decentralized... I still like decentralized tho


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Offline bytemaster

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 08:25:16 PM »
Quote
governments do produce added consume value in the form of conflict resolution initiation.
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Offline myhometalk

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 08:31:11 PM »
The first time i heard someone called bitcoin as company was from bm's papers and his online video.
Besides as a company, to be a delagate of bts,you will get pay by doing the transaction and can donate your delegate income to charity
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 08:45:55 PM by myhometalk »

merockstar

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 08:38:38 PM »
Quote
governments do produce added consume value in the form of conflict resolution initiation.

I respectfully disagree. The conflicts would have been there with or without the government, their role is to attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of those conflicts.

Offline bytemaster

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 08:42:22 PM »
Quote
governments do produce added consume value in the form of conflict resolution initiation.

I respectfully disagree. The conflicts would have been there with or without the government, their role is to attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of those conflicts.

I am saying that the government is the source of more conflicts and violations of property rights than any private conflicts the government pretends to intermediate.

ie:  in the case of a single conflict where person A steals something from person B... government will attempt to resolve that conflict by introducing a conflict between itself and every other member of society to collect taxes at gun point to pay for the legal system and jails.   Governments kill more people than private criminals by several orders of magnitude.   

So on a net: governments create more conflict than they resolve.
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merockstar

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 08:50:37 PM »
Quote
governments do produce added consume value in the form of conflict resolution initiation.

I respectfully disagree. The conflicts would have been there with or without the government, their role is to attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of those conflicts.

Governments kill more people than private criminals by several orders of magnitude.   

If we lived in anarchy would private individuals still kill less people than governments currently do?

I want to clarify. I'm not saying that I approve of the way current governments handle their responsibility. But it's a responsibility that needs to be shouldered by somebody.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 09:08:28 PM by merockstar »

Offline fuzzy

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 11:10:04 PM »
DAC stands for decentralized autonomous company.  It's a company because it IS for profit. Profit is the incentive that makes us different from all other 2.0 technologies out there.  If something doesn't produce a profit (ie: value) then it can't thrive and grow.  The only thing that can grow without prodcing added value is government.  So are we a technical "company"? No, but that's the closest metaphor we have to describe a DAC, and thus BitShares.

I'm being pedantic, but I would argue that governments do produce added value in the form of conflict resolution.

but they also destroy value through the process of conflict creation...and the value they create through conflict resolution is not value that is based in competition in a market of ideas.  governments are pure force and monopoly of control for whatever place they touch.  that is my opinion...
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Offline bytemaster

Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2014, 02:55:09 AM »
Quote
governments do produce added consume value in the form of conflict resolution initiation.

I respectfully disagree. The conflicts would have been there with or without the government, their role is to attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of those conflicts.

Governments kill more people than private criminals by several orders of magnitude.   

If we lived in anarchy would private individuals still kill less people than governments currently do?

I want to clarify. I'm not saying that I approve of the way current governments handle their responsibility. But it's a responsibility that needs to be shouldered by somebody.

I agree, it is a responsibility that needs to be shouldered by everyone in a voluntary, free market manner.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

merockstar

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Re: The video calls bitcoin a company
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2014, 03:02:54 AM »
I agree, it is a responsibility that needs to be shouldered by everyone in a voluntary, free market manner.

normally I'd respond to this by asking rhetorically what you're proposing.

but shit dude, you might actually be able to solve this problem.

edit: rereading that, it was way too asskissish for my tastes. but goddamn, the respect I have for this guy. kinda feel uncomfortable even engaging in friendly debate.

I'm going to bow out of this thread.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 03:07:28 AM by merockstar »

 

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