Ethereum's IPO (Again)

[fuzzy]

Ethereum has been guaranteed to be a success from the conception...nothing else really matters.  You'll see what I mean soon enough.  Peace.

[toast]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

-.-
obviously they won't do this because you can monitor spending and unlike AGS they don't need to spend it before the sale is done

I don't understand what you are saying. I think the guy I quoted meant that the people in charge of the IPO could buy the ether at presale with bitcoins, since the bitcoins come right back to them they can do it over and over, making the amount of capital raised appear to be much higher than it actually is, which attracts more investors and at the same time locks in a bigger slice of the pie for themselves - at an actual cost that is a fraction of what others are paying.

Yes, and I am saying it would be impossible for them to do that, since it would require signatures from 3 of their 4 multisig owners, and also very foolish, because everyone can watch them do it.

This criticism also applies to AGS, and unlike ether, I3 cannot prove they didn't do that.

Agreed! I3 should clarify this: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4958.0 .

For the record I think it's pretty clear that they didn't

[charleshoskinson]

I don't understand what you are saying. I think the guy I quoted meant that the people in charge of the IPO could buy the ether at presale with bitcoins, since the bitcoins come right back to them they can do it over and over, making the amount of capital raised appear to be much higher than it actually is, which attracts more investors and at the same time locks in a bigger slice of the pie for themselves - at an actual cost that is a fraction of what others are paying.

Maybe he should invest some time into learning how bitcoin actually works. https://blockchain.info/address/36PrZ1KHYMpqSyAQXSG8VwbUiq2EogxLo2 is the purchase address for the ether sale. Notice no bitcoin have actually moved from it? I understand that some in this community disagree with the design decisions of the Ethereum project; however, please refrain from suggesting their integrity is somehow compromised.

Second, the ether sale is not an IPO. The terms of sale clearly state this fact. Third, there has ever only been one ether sale. It was delayed many times because the parties involved wanted to both release several proof of concepts and get the legal framework right. There was a huge amount of due diligence that went into the ethereum project.

[toast]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

-.-
obviously they won't do this because you can monitor spending and unlike AGS they don't need to spend it before the sale is done

I don't understand what you are saying. I think the guy I quoted meant that the people in charge of the IPO could buy the ether at presale with bitcoins, since the bitcoins come right back to them they can do it over and over, making the amount of capital raised appear to be much higher than it actually is, which attracts more investors and at the same time locks in a bigger slice of the pie for themselves - at an actual cost that is a fraction of what others are paying.

Yes, and I am saying it would be impossible for them to do that, since it would require signatures from 3 of their 4 multisig owners, and also very foolish, because everyone can watch them do it.

This criticism also applies to AGS, and unlike ether, I3 cannot prove they didn't do that.

[donkeypong]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

-.-
obviously they won't do this because you can monitor spending and unlike AGS they don't need to spend it before the sale is done

I don't understand what you are saying. I think the guy I quoted meant that the people in charge of the IPO could buy the ether at presale with bitcoins, since the bitcoins come right back to them they can do it over and over, making the amount of capital raised appear to be much higher than it actually is, which attracts more investors and at the same time locks in a bigger slice of the pie for themselves - at an actual cost that is a fraction of what others are paying.

Maybe Hosk will weigh in on that if we haven't driven him away again.

[mint chocolate chip]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

-.-
obviously they won't do this because you can monitor spending and unlike AGS they don't need to spend it before the sale is done

I don't understand what you are saying. I think the guy I quoted meant that the people in charge of the IPO could buy the ether at presale with bitcoins, since the bitcoins come right back to them they can do it over and over, making the amount of capital raised appear to be much higher than it actually is, which attracts more investors and at the same time locks in a bigger slice of the pie for themselves - at an actual cost that is a fraction of what others are paying.

[toast]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

-.-
obviously they won't do this because you can monitor spending and unlike AGS they don't need to spend it before the sale is done

[mint chocolate chip]

They got off to a very strong start the first 24 hours, especially considering the IPO announcement was a surprise.

But then I read this bitcointalk and it got me wondering...

We won't even get into the fact that IPO is just a fraud to create as much premine as you want by creating mule accounts, sending BTC to yourself with the mule accounts, then the BTC returns to you + the infinite premine.

[bitmeat]

Smart contracts are just scripts that live on the chain. I'm sure it will be added to BTSX after we see the assets up and running.

What I love about the scripting is that it is a) decentralized - lives on the chain b) doesn't require a hard fork to implement a new feature.

The term is "programmable money".

[bytemaster]

For any number of millions of dollars donated to Ethereum, what is the total market cap at launch?

And inflation is 26 percent, going exclusively to miners?

Yes, inflation going exclusively to miners.

Say they receive 10000 BTC in their IPO. Assuming the price stays at their imposed value of 2,000 ETH per BTC, the total market cap of current supply at launch will then be:

10000BTC + 10000 BTC *19.8% (dev premine) = 11980 BTC.

If the price somehow remains fixed during the first year, the market cap at year 1 will be 11980*1.26 = 15094 BTC due to inflation.

So they are projecting a 10 Million valuation and selling ETH at this price...  That valuation puts ETH at 50% of BTSX right now. 

[donkeypong]

Ethereum has some powerful friends. That's one of the things that bothers me about them. Remember, they have been "self-funded" for some months now.

What you talking bout donkeypongiss?

I know little about Ethereum, and compared to you I know less than nothing. But need I remind you of your famous video controversy? I'm not naive enough to believe that Ethereum is under the control of Goldman Sachs. That said, you did a great job lining up many 'best and brightest' types from the programming and financial worlds. I do know that the average Joe would not have been able to live on savings over the last few months, constantly putting off this IPO, helping a whole team of people live on their own dime, while jump-starting a new business of such a large magnitude, and yet that's exactly what all of you guys did. Someone has kept it going financially during this time and I don't think that you and Vitalik have been the only force behind its marketing machine and all this pomp. "Powerful friends" can be a good thing, but forgive me if it provides me with some pause. Look, I am hoping to invest in this project myself, not because I see it as an investment, but because I'd like to see it succeed. Whatever the heck it ends up becoming will provide some benefits to society. I just think it may be more centralized than people realize.

[svk]

For any number of millions of dollars donated to Ethereum, what is the total market cap at launch?

And inflation is 26 percent, going exclusively to miners?

Yes, inflation going exclusively to miners.

Say they receive 10000 BTC in their IPO. Assuming the price stays at their imposed value of 2,000 ETH per BTC, the total market cap of current supply at launch will then be:

10000BTC + 10000 BTC *19.8% (dev premine) = 11980 BTC.

If the price somehow remains fixed during the first year, the market cap at year 1 will be 11980*1.26 = 15094 BTC due to inflation.

[bitbro]

Thanks for your post! Would you agree on the following: A smart contract is everything that is conditional + involves more than one economic entity (doesn't have to be human) + uses a blockchain to store the data, for example:
1) Any multisig transaction
2) Ethereum style conditional payments that can be activated with ether (many different smart contracts all on the ethereum blockchain)
3) A Bitshares style DAC. Lottery for example says "IF you buy a lottery ticket THEN you will get a (a) % chance of winning (b) (which depends on how many other others are playing) which is paid out in way (c). Every "smart contract" has its own chain.
 
(2) and (3) are basically the same (both are smart contracts and in both systems the contracts have to be activated with the native currency) except:
- one blockchain vs. many blockchains
- C++ vs. Ethereum's custom scripting languages. Both are turring complete.

I can see clearly now, like Bob Marley



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CLains]

For any number of millions of dollars donated to Ethereum, what is the total market cap at launch?

And inflation is 26 percent, going exclusively to miners?

[testz]

Thanks for your post! Would you agree...

Yes, I completely agree.