Benefits of holding bitusd vs. USD

[Gentso1]

The ultimate goal is for merchants to use BitUSD like they use their bank and to pay their suppliers in BitUSD.

Yes of course, but until we get to that point, would you agree on the idea that a payment processor would throw adoption to warp 9? 

[bitbro]

The ultimate goal is for merchants to use BitUSD like they use their bank and to pay their suppliers in BitUSD.

We should develop the sales pitch

[tonyk]

The ultimate goal is for merchants to use BitUSD like they use their bank and to pay their suppliers in BitUSD.

I will be rich enough, to say nothing about you, if all merchants accept USD and bitUSD equally, to really care if just this partial goal is reached...

[bytemaster]

The ultimate goal is for merchants to use BitUSD like they use their bank and to pay their suppliers in BitUSD. 

[Gentso1]

What is going to be the process of actually using bitusd with a merchant per-say. Is there any plans to have some sort of payment processor(coinbase kinda thing). I feel like there needs to be a way to bridge the digital to fiat divide. At least in the begging because people will want to cash in and out of different assets.

As a merchant you can receive payment in BitUSD and hold a BitUSD balance.  When you want to withdraw to real USD then you convert to BTC and from BTC to USD... at least in the short term.  Your volatility risk is now limited to the time it takes to execute those trades. 

Now ideally we would work with someone that takes real USD to allow a direct BitUSD USD market to form on something like Bitstamp.

Much better solution of course is to convince the payment processors to make the bitUSD to USD conversion for the merchants. The problem is convincing 1 such payment processor to start doing it...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6682.msg89136#msg89136

This would of course be the ultimate goal but I feel to really fuel adoption we need a payment processor.  But yes, I can now see the forest for the trees.  What about trying to market towards current processor like coinbase. While bringing in outside companies will add to the overall cost of crossing the digital divide I believe it would be wise to make it a option.   

[tonyk]

Just a kind reminder of the original plans of bitHaus

Unfortunatelly they wanted to start with NXT as their currency and haven't launched since ..
No idea what's keeping them atm.

Related thread:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bithaus-the-very-first-nxt-fiat-exchange-is-near!/new/?topicseen#new

Yes, I do think it is time for them to refocus back on Bitshares! Their lost if they do not btw, somebody else will do it.

[xeroc]

Just a kind reminder of the original plans of bitHaus

Unfortunatelly they wanted to start with NXT as their currency and haven't launched since ..
No idea what's keeping them atm.

Related thread:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bithaus-the-very-first-nxt-fiat-exchange-is-near!/new/?topicseen#new

[tonyk]

What is going to be the process of actually using bitusd with a merchant per-say. Is there any plans to have some sort of payment processor(coinbase kinda thing). I feel like there needs to be a way to bridge the digital to fiat divide. At least in the begging because people will want to cash in and out of different assets.

As a merchant you can receive payment in BitUSD and hold a BitUSD balance.  When you want to withdraw to real USD then you convert to BTC and from BTC to USD... at least in the short term.  Your volatility risk is now limited to the time it takes to execute those trades. 

Now ideally we would work with someone that takes real USD to allow a direct BitUSD USD market to form on something like Bitstamp.

Much better solution of course is to convince the payment processors to make the bitUSD to USD conversion for the merchants. The problem is convincing 1 such payment processor to start doing it...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6682.msg89136#msg89136

[bytemaster]

What is going to be the process of actually using bitusd with a merchant per-say. Is there any plans to have some sort of payment processor(coinbase kinda thing). I feel like there needs to be a way to bridge the digital to fiat divide. At least in the begging because people will want to cash in and out of different assets.

As a merchant you can receive payment in BitUSD and hold a BitUSD balance.  When you want to withdraw to real USD then you convert to BTC and from BTC to USD... at least in the short term.  Your volatility risk is now limited to the time it takes to execute those trades. 

Now ideally we would work with someone that takes real USD to allow a direct BitUSD USD market to form on something like Bitstamp.

[Gentso1]

What is going to be the process of actually using bitusd with a merchant per-say. Is there any plans to have some sort of payment processor(coinbase kinda thing). I feel like there needs to be a way to bridge the digital to fiat divide. At least in the begging because people will want to cash in and out of different assets. 

[mf-tzo]

My whole point is that we need to convince people why it is more secure to hold bitusd in bitshares X vs. usd in any other normal bank.

To me this is the most important benefit of bitusd and not the fees to transfer funds across the world.

People with large capital do not care if they pay $5 instead of $0.1, but they do care not to lose their millions in savings in case the bank bankrupts (see Cyprus case)

[bytemaster]

A properly managed bank requires few and small bailouts and can reasonably be expected to buy back the issuance in a short period of time.   

Bailouts are considered a last resort and usually mean fees or incentives must change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mf-tzo]

It is an attempt to find the lesser evil... during a period of extreme market conditions.
Do you prefer the company to stop offering the product all together or is it better to just decrease companies market value by 0.1% or 1%, by taking the losses?

Of course I prefer the companies to continue operate by taking losses of 0.1% - 1%. What I don't want is "save the companies at all cost" which happen everywhere in the world by injecting and constantly printing more money. That is not a solution but rather a short term patch!

In my country Greek banks have done massive new capital injections and their shareholders are getting diluted constantly... There is no trust in the system whatsoever and no logic person will ever invest in these banks anymore.

I do not want to have at any point the possibility of BTSX in existence to be 4 bil instead of 2 bil.

The purpose of a bank is to lend only what she can afford to lend. That's it! If the profits of the bank do not allow to lend more then they shouldn't lend more. Do you guys disagree with that?

[santaclause102]

If you are also holding BXTS holding BitUSD helps support the price of BTSX by generating demand for BitUSD.

Holding BitUSD though would be a bet for a decreasing BTS X price wouldn't it?

Actually if you are also holding BTSX it is not a bet against BTSX.
And you are trusting in the peg between them. You can call it betting/believing in the peg!

Right. I said "holding BitUSD" though. If you are holding BitUSd it's a bet for BTS X to go down down in price relative to the USD and BitUSD. If you are holding BTSX it's bet for BitUSD to go down in price relative to BTSX. Do you agree?

[bytemaster]

1) Can't be seized without your consent

BitUSD can be seized or at least heavily taxed, when the federal reserve prints more of it, which they do quite a lot of these days to keep lots of inflation going to fund wars and such.  Nobody can do that with Btsx, at least mostly, although I think the amount of Btsx should be at least somewhat flexible, in an amplified wisdom of the crowd canonization like process.

Now that there are non inflating currencies like Bitcoin and even better BitsharesX, the next time the world economy goes south, everyone could quickly bail from USD, for investments like Bitshares or any of the other crypto currencies.  During the last GREAT recession, everyone in the world was forced to invest in USD, because that was the only option as EVERYTHING was falling in value at once.  Everyone is realizing that at times like that, Bitshares will be a far more reliable investment (exploding in value when the economy goes south, unlike all other investments), and not subject to the huge taxation of the government printing so much more of it.  That could really damage the USD, and cause major major hyper inflation of both USD and BitUSD.

Or am I thinking wrong?

Brent Allsop

BitUSD cannot be seized, though the USD can be devalued.  There is a difference though.   A government can seize just your bank account without debasing everyones account.

BitUSD is like BTC only market-pegged to the USD.

[tonyk]

If you are also holding BXTS holding BitUSD helps support the price of BTSX by generating demand for BitUSD.

Holding BitUSD though would be a bet for a decreasing BTS X price wouldn't it?

Actually if you are also holding BTSX it is not a bet against BTSX.
And you are trusting in the peg between them. You can call it betting/believing in the peg!

[santaclause102]

If you are also holding BXTS holding BitUSD helps support the price of BTSX by generating demand for BitUSD.

Holding BitUSD though would be a bet for a decreasing BTS X price wouldn't it?

[Brent.Allsop]

1) Can't be seized without your consent

BitUSD can be seized or at least heavily taxed, when the federal reserve prints more of it, which they do quite a lot of these days to keep lots of inflation going to fund wars and such.  Nobody can do that with Btsx, at least mostly, although I think the amount of Btsx should be at least somewhat flexible, in an amplified wisdom of the crowd canonization like process.

Now that there are non inflating currencies like Bitcoin and even better BitsharesX, the next time the world economy goes south, everyone could quickly bail from USD, for investments like Bitshares or any of the other crypto currencies.  During the last GREAT recession, everyone in the world was forced to invest in USD, because that was the only option as EVERYTHING was falling in value at once.  Everyone is realizing that at times like that, Bitshares will be a far more reliable investment (exploding in value when the economy goes south, unlike all other investments), and not subject to the huge taxation of the government printing so much more of it.  That could really damage the USD, and cause major major hyper inflation of both USD and BitUSD.

Or am I thinking wrong?

Brent Allsop

[luckybit]

Can someone please remind me the benefits. I know there are a lot but I have forgot most of them by now...

I am pretty sure new investors will also want to find out.

Let's keep it simple...

1
2
3
etc...

It's useful for paying salaries to US citizens who expect to get paid in USD and who don't appreciate volatility. It's also very good for bounties.

[soniq]

Great thread.  I think It's all starting to sink in!!

P.S. Forum moderators, this post could/should be stickied and/or condensed and shared on websites and marketing material

[GaltReport]

 

Great thread.  I think It's all starting to sink in!!

[tonyk]

Isn't the most important benefit that by holding Bitusd you hold your $ in a decentralised bank that cannot loan more than its collateral value? The bank cannot therefore bankrupt and no government can shut the system down.

The bank earns profits from transaction fees and the loans that will provide cannot exceed these profits. You avoid a situation where a bank can loan more than it's true value and therefore you avoid a crisis like the one we experienced and still experience whereby banks gave more loans than they supposed to and at some point people realised all together that the asset collaterals that they were holding (i.e houses) were not worthing that much?

It is an attempt to find the lesser evil... during a period of extreme market conditions.
Do you prefer the company to stop offering the product all together or is it better to just decrease companies market value by 0.1% or 1%, by taking the losses?

[bytemaster]

Far less cost than current visa/ boa electronic debit system, yes?

About $0.01 per transaction.

Compared to how much in the visa/boa debit system? $1.00 per transaction? Or 1%?

Depends upon your volume and a ton of other factors.  For Dwolla it was $0.25 for checking account payments.

For Paypal....
If the fee is passed to you, it is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive. For example, if you are sent $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30). This fee also applies if you click Request Money on the PayPal website and request money from friends and family.

[bitbro]

This should get published into a comparison chart type of thing.. Although the market peg needs to work first....

[Riverhead]

You can pay merchants in BitUSD without having to use a service like BitPay to handle volatility risk.

Hmm.  Danger Will Robinson. I guess this isn't any different than a merchant accepting BTC.  Though the 1:1 pegged nature of bitUSD might wrinkle some regulators noses with regards to which currency is fiat, taxable, MINTABLE, etc.

[toast]

Isn't the most important benefit that by holding Bitusd you hold your $ in a decentralised bank that cannot loan more than its collateral value? The bank cannot therefore bankrupt and no government can shut the system down.

The bank earns profits from transaction fees and the loans that will provide cannot exceed these profits. You avoid a situation where a bank can loan more than it's true value and therefore you avoid a crisis like the one we experienced and still experience whereby banks gave more loans than they supposed to and at some point people realised all together that the asset collaterals that they were holding (i.e houses) were not worthing that much?

Not really... Real banks can always make good on $ value because of real-life FDIC. That is more of an argument for why BTSX might be better than BoA stock

[bitbro]

Far less cost than current visa/ boa electronic debit system, yes?

About $0.01 per transaction.

Compared to how much in the visa/boa debit system? $1.00 per transaction? Or 1%?

[bytemaster]

Far less cost than current visa/ boa electronic debit system, yes?

About $0.01 per transaction.

[mf-tzo]

Isn't the most important benefit that by holding Bitusd you hold your $ in a decentralised bank that cannot loan more than its collateral value? The bank cannot therefore bankrupt and no government can shut the system down.

The bank earns profits from transaction fees and the loans that will provide cannot exceed these profits. You avoid a situation where a bank can loan more than it's true value and therefore you avoid a crisis like the one we experienced and still experience whereby banks gave more loans than they supposed to and at some point people realised all together that the asset collaterals that they were holding (i.e houses) were not worthing that much?

[bitbro]

Far less cost than current visa/ boa electronic debit system, yes?

[bytemaster]

You can trade against BitGold/Silver/Etc  in ForEx
You can hedge against BTS X volatility without creating taxable events or going through a centralized exchange.
You can pay merchants in BitUSD without having to use a service like BitPay to handle volatility risk.
You can support easier cross-chain-trading with market-pegged assets on both chains.
If you are also holding BXTS holding BitUSD helps support the price of BTSX by generating demand for BitUSD.

[tonyk]

The answer is  - you have all the benefits of crypto currency with the price stability of a dollar.

Imagine your all your $ being BTC and at the same time whenever you decide you can change them back to USD 1:1;

[xeroc]

- (should be) worth a USD with the advantages of the decetnralized cryptocurrencies ... (no seizure, 'laundering'?, clean (not drug dirty), 'no' change)

[toast]

1) Can't be seized without your consent
2) Send to anyone in the world instantly
3) Private / anonymous

[mf-tzo]

Can someone please remind me the benefits. I know there are a lot but I have forgot most of them by now...

I am pretty sure new investors will also want to find out.

Let's keep it simple...

1
2
3
etc...