Author Topic: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?  (Read 58508 times)

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Offline Empirical1

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Apologies I made a post on BTT without the question mark, though I'm not affiliated with BitShares in anyway so I guess I can write what I like  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740684.0

Though the first post included the opening line

Quote
Just read this on the BitShares forums from Bytemaster (Daniel Larimer), the founder & main developer of BitShares, it his just perspective & not be construed as being from Vitalik/Ethereum directly but...

as well as the quote

Vitalik and I are not very "political" and mostly care about the best technology for the job.   I am merely expressing my perspective on the conversation and will let him speak for himself.   

Edit: I've since included question mark in title of Bitcointalk thread as well as included an update with the latest quote from Vitalik 'An update on possible collaboration'
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 04:26:31 pm by Empirical1 »

Offline bytemaster

So I talked to Ethereum.. they basically told me that they are not interested in a partnership..  and that they felt that this announcement of a partnership was shady.

Need proof?  Comes from Ethereum core coder:
http://insightsintoamodernworld.blogspot.de/2014/08/ethereum-collaborations.html

Who announced a formal partnership?   All that this thread was discussing is the potential for a partnership and ways to collaborate (hence the "?" in the title).  Looks like our community is very open minded and looking for the best technology. V. is also very open minded.

The only thing shady is the hostility of those against even the idea of collaboration. 
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Offline hughmanwho

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So I talked to Ethereum.. they basically told me that they are not interested in a partnership..  and that they felt that this announcement of a partnership was shady.

Need proof?  Comes from Ethereum core coder:
http://insightsintoamodernworld.blogspot.de/2014/08/ethereum-collaborations.html
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 03:22:08 pm by hughmanwho »

merockstar

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dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)

I worry about this as well. I'll bet 1000btsx that Stan is the photographer.

 +5%


he is proud... and he is right to be  ;)

no argument here. point is he's probably not packin heat. at this point I think the devs probably should be.

photoshop request: a terminatorfied stan holding a badass looking machine gun.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 02:59:26 pm by merockstar »

Offline liondani

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A new crypto 3.0 product will arise ... soon ....

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Offline lucky331

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I'm really encouraged by this collaborative attitude by the 2.0 community's best minds. While we view ourselves as competitors the true "other team" is the status quo economic systems that are so entrenched.


The concept of a universal client is appealing; like a web browser for blockchains.

YES!  glad you are in the same boat.  i've been trying to make everyone aware via "better together" cross community giveaways. 

Offline Riverhead

I'm really encouraged by this collaborative attitude by the 2.0 community's best minds. While we view ourselves as competitors the true "other team" is the status quo economic systems that are so entrenched.


The concept of a universal client is appealing; like a web browser for blockchains.

Offline arhag

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One thing that has come out of the process is that I am a firm believer in the need for a "Turing Complete" environment on a DAC. 
Could you please expand more on this? In particular, what would you say is the value of adding user-generated Turing complete scripts on an existing DAC over developer-generated Turing complete code implementing new features on a new DAC (or a fork of the old DAC)? I sort of think of it like the difference between compiling then running code written in a statically-typed language vs using an eval expression to interpret code written in a dynamically-typed language. If the basic framework is going to be used again and again, it would make sense to me to just implement those features in the codebase, fork, and now everyone can enjoy it. On the other hand, if these features are unique to each particular user's situation, I suppose being able to (less efficiently?) implement the custom script on an existing DAC could be useful. But I am wondering what those use cases actually are.

So what I can say is that a future BitShares chain will be fully Turing Complete with the ability to run arbitrary code.
I do think it would be pretty fun to try out a BitShares-branded DPOS DAC that has Turing complete scripts. But I want to make sure that I understand correctly; you are not advocating that core BitShares DACs like BitShares X and BitShares DNS become "Turing complete" correct?

Offline fuzzy

I haven't posted it yet, but pretty sure we have the Truthcoin Devs wanting to show up for a Saturday Meetup.  I'd really like to get Devs from all different crypto-ecosystems to chat with the community so if anyone knows some, let me know!

Also, BM. Is Friday a go or a no go at the moment?
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

V and I had a great time and I appreciate him making the trip to Virginia.   

One thing that has come out of the process is that I am a firm believer in the need for a "Turing Complete" environment on a DAC.   The other thing that came out of the meeting is that the existing Eth. design has woefully inefficient abstraction for the types of data structures that DAC developers really need.  Technically it is turing complete and it is possible to do everything on their existing design.  I was throughly impressed with V's ability to solve problems on the fly and believe that Eth will be a very interesting platform and will find many solutions.   

So what I can say is that a future BitShares chain will be fully Turing Complete with the ability to run arbitrary code.   I think that we will probably have a friendly competition moving forward as we steal good ideas from each other. 

One thing I can say is that nothing replaces real-world experience writing DACs from scratch to learn what the proper abstraction layer is.  V gained some insight from our experience writing real DACs while we gained some of his experience with doing things more generally.

We also recognized that the biggest need we have is for our communities to work together rather than against one another.  It is kind of like different tribes.  It seems that the best way to align our communities is to have a mutual financial interest and for that reason I could see a joint venture with allocation from both sides for the development of BitShares Turing.

All of these things are probably a year or more away as we both have to focus on current systems.

It is very much like tribes.  Sharedropping incentivizes collaboration between shareholders of different communities, Diversifies every holder's portfolio over time, and Diversifies a technology's community.  Diversification will create more redundancy between systems and will support higher market caps in the ecosystem, introducing more volume and stability. 

Another way to incentivize trust is for at least one tangible initiative to be established that various communities all have a stake in.  For instance, DPOS based chains can use some of the extra funds to collaboratively put together a legal fund to cover the expenses of establishing favorable legal precedents. 

As for V, thanks for clearing that up. 
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ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline yellowecho

So what I can say is that a future BitShares chain will be fully Turing Complete with the ability to run arbitrary code.

We also recognized that the biggest need we have is for our communities to work together rather than against one another.  It is kind of like different tribes.  It seems that the best way to align our communities is to have a mutual financial interest and for that reason I could see a joint venture with allocation from both sides for the development of BitShares Turing.

This sounds very interesting.......
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline xeroc

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V and I had a great time and I appreciate him making the trip to Virginia.   

One thing that has come out of the process is that I am a firm believer in the need for a "Turing Complete" environment on a DAC.   The other thing that came out of the meeting is that the existing Eth. design has woefully inefficient abstraction for the types of data structures that DAC developers really need.  Technically it is turing complete and it is possible to do everything on their existing design.  I was throughly impressed with V's ability to solve problems on the fly and believe that Eth will be a very interesting platform and will find many solutions.   

So what I can say is that a future BitShares chain will be fully Turing Complete with the ability to run arbitrary code.   I think that we will probably have a friendly competition moving forward as we steal good ideas from each other. 

One thing I can say is that nothing replaces real-world experience writing DACs from scratch to learn what the proper abstraction layer is.  V gained some insight from our experience writing real DACs while we gained some of his experience with doing things more generally.

We also recognized that the biggest need we have is for our communities to work together rather than against one another.  It is kind of like different tribes.  It seems that the best way to align our communities is to have a mutual financial interest and for that reason I could see a joint venture with allocation from both sides for the development of BitShares Turing.

All of these things are probably a year or more away as we both have to focus on current systems.
+5%

We should really invite V to fuznuts mumble hangouts ands beyondbitcoin in general!

Offline nethyb

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 +5% Very Cool BM, thanks for being open and sharing with us...

Offline bytemaster

V and I had a great time and I appreciate him making the trip to Virginia.   

One thing that has come out of the process is that I am a firm believer in the need for a "Turing Complete" environment on a DAC.   The other thing that came out of the meeting is that the existing Eth. design has woefully inefficient abstraction for the types of data structures that DAC developers really need.  Technically it is turing complete and it is possible to do everything on their existing design.  I was throughly impressed with V's ability to solve problems on the fly and believe that Eth will be a very interesting platform and will find many solutions.   

So what I can say is that a future BitShares chain will be fully Turing Complete with the ability to run arbitrary code.   I think that we will probably have a friendly competition moving forward as we steal good ideas from each other. 

One thing I can say is that nothing replaces real-world experience writing DACs from scratch to learn what the proper abstraction layer is.  V gained some insight from our experience writing real DACs while we gained some of his experience with doing things more generally.

We also recognized that the biggest need we have is for our communities to work together rather than against one another.  It is kind of like different tribes.  It seems that the best way to align our communities is to have a mutual financial interest and for that reason I could see a joint venture with allocation from both sides for the development of BitShares Turing.

All of these things are probably a year or more away as we both have to focus on current systems.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline yellowecho

This is exactly what I meant, thank you fuznuts.

So as an update on possible collaboration, I think we agreed that keeping things informal is the best way forward at this point. No official partnerships or mergers of any companies or any coins/projects, and it doesn't really make sense to copy-paste codebases in either direction either. But we are happy to participate in standardization efforts and collaborative discussions on technical issues as long as it's an open tent where any crypto-2.0 project can participate. I think there definitely are a few areas (eg. proof of stake algos, client standardization) where that would be quite beneficial.

Thank you for having us over, Bitshares team! Look forward to talking more online and offline in the future.

 +5% You rule, V!
696c6f766562726f776e696573