Author Topic: BTER and snapshot (Read 10275 times)

robrigo · « **Reply #34 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:01:53 pm »

Quote from: mf-tzo on August 25, 2014, 07:52:29 pm

I haven't even checked yet but how many Vote shares and how many DNS shares we should get per 1 PTS and based on what initial supply for each of them. Also you guys are mentioning PTS_3. which shares will be shown there? from DNS or for Vote?

I believe both VOTE and DNS DAC will be taken from the PTS_S3 value. Not sure what the conversion rate will be yet.

Akado · « **Reply #33 on:** August 25, 2014, 07:59:43 pm »

Quote from: mf-tzo on August 25, 2014, 07:52:29 pm

I haven't even checked yet but how many Vote shares and how many DNS shares we should get per 1 PTS and based on what initial supply for each of them. Also you guys are mentioning PTS_3. which shares will be shown there? from DNS or for Vote?

I would also like to know that as well!

mf-tzo · « **Reply #32 on:** August 25, 2014, 07:52:29 pm »

I haven't even checked yet but how many Vote shares and how many DNS shares we should get per 1 PTS and based on what initial supply for each of them. Also you guys are mentioning PTS_3. which shares will be shown there? from DNS or for Vote?

clayop · « **Reply #31 on:** August 25, 2014, 07:38:26 pm »

Quote from: robrigo on August 25, 2014, 03:19:13 pm

Hey cass,

I complained to them that taking the snapshot at a different instant in time compared to the real snapshot makes absolutely no sense, and they gave me the PTS_S3 I deserved. Re-open your ticket and be persistent. Here is the thread from my correspondence with them from the last reply I posted earlier:

BTER: Dear Sir,
PTS_3 was snapshot on 23:30-24:00 UTC+8 Aug 21 , 8 hours before blockchain time in case of failing to receive PTS on bter account at the deadline.

robrigo: All I need to know is if I should have PTS_S3 in my bter account. I held
PTS on bter at the time of the actual snapshot (August 21 11:59:59 pm UTC).
So my question to you is whether that counts or I missed it. I moved my PTS
from my local wallet to bter before the actual snapshot and I would like
credit for it.

robrigo: It doesn't make sense that bter would take the snapshot at a time different
from the real snapshot. The blog post about it on bter was ambiguous and
never specified the time. Please make this right for those of us who chose
to use bter for the snapshot.

BTER: Dear Sir,
We will credit you the PTS-S3 accordingly
Please kindly check it later

Afterward, I had the correct amount of PTS_S3 on my bter account. So just be persistent and explain to them that their snapshot process doesn't make sense! Good luck, I think you'll get your snapshot stake with no problems as we are in the same boat and they honored mine.

I also complained about it (I was holding PTS at actual snapshot time but didn't get PTS_S3). I'm waiting the reply.

robrigo · « **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2014, 03:19:13 pm »

Hey cass,

I complained to them that taking the snapshot at a different instant in time compared to the real snapshot makes absolutely no sense, and they gave me the PTS_S3 I deserved. Re-open your ticket and be persistent. Here is the thread from my correspondence with them from the last reply I posted earlier:

BTER: Dear Sir,
PTS_3 was snapshot on 23:30-24:00 UTC+8 Aug 21 , 8 hours before blockchain time in case of failing to receive PTS on bter account at the deadline.

robrigo: All I need to know is if I should have PTS_S3 in my bter account. I held
PTS on bter at the time of the actual snapshot (August 21 11:59:59 pm UTC).
So my question to you is whether that counts or I missed it. I moved my PTS
from my local wallet to bter before the actual snapshot and I would like
credit for it.

robrigo: It doesn't make sense that bter would take the snapshot at a time different
from the real snapshot. The blog post about it on bter was ambiguous and
never specified the time. Please make this right for those of us who chose
to use bter for the snapshot.

BTER: Dear Sir,
We will credit you the PTS-S3 accordingly
Please kindly check it later

Afterward, I had the correct amount of PTS_S3 on my bter account. So just be persistent and explain to them that their snapshot process doesn't make sense! Good luck, I think you'll get your snapshot stake with no problems as we are in the same boat and they honored mine.

cass · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2014, 03:13:34 pm »

Quote from: robrigo on August 25, 2014, 12:30:21 am

Quote from: cass on August 22, 2014, 12:39:58 am
Quote from: robrigo on August 22, 2014, 12:36:57 am
I decided to move my PTS to bter for the snapshot a couple hours before 11:59:59 PM UTC but I don't think they gave me credit for it. Was I supposed to have PTS_S on my bter account for this snapshot by now?

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they would be recognizing the snapshot at the time it was announced but I hope they will make it right for me. The post on their site never specified a time either, I guess it just said before the 21st (https://bter.com/article/2278) .

It looks like their exchange is based off UTC+8 timezone based on my deposit timestamp: 2014-08-22 06:32:31

So that would have been deposited at 2014-08-21 10:32:31 UTC. I really hope they make it right so my PTS investment wasn't worthless.

indeed interesting.. same issue for me also $:-\$

Hey cass, were you ever able to figure out if they honored your PTS for the snapshot? I got an ambiguous reply back from their support which didn't really answer my initial question of if they snapshotted based on their timezone or UTC. Here's the reply:

"

Dear Sir,
PTS_3 was snapshot on 23:30-24:00 UTC+8 Aug 21 , 8 hours before blockchain time in case of failing to receive PTS on bter account at the deadline.

"

So it sounds like PTS_3 was a "snapshot" taken 8 hours before the real snapshot for backup or something? I responded to try to get more clarification if they are honoring it based on UTC or UTC+8. It seems like it wouldn't make any sense if they are doing UTC+8 as that is a different instant in time from the actual snapshot.

No didn't get it clear yet! Same on my side! They replied but without answering my initial question! And yes thats how i understand it! UTC +8! But then my PTS were on BTER.com and not in my wallet! Also if snapshot time is UTC+8 then my PTS on BTER.com also doesn't count for snapshot! THIS WOULD BE REALLY ANNOYING!

It was first time i didn't claim it from local wallet. If due the UTC +8 issue i won't claim my DNS/VOTE shares now...
then i'll not longer able to recommend bter.com for snapshots etc.

Quote

Dear Sir,
If you have pts on your Bter account between 23:30-24:00 Aug 21 UTC+8(We are 8 hour ahead in case the pts deposit fail to reach Bter at the deadline), you will be granted PTS-S3.
If there is any question,please let us know
Thanks

so i guess my claim is gone ---- if i interpret this correctly ... really annoying... cause why we publish a UTC snapshot date if exchanges use there own time to snapshot

my 2 BTSX

robrigo · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2014, 11:18:09 am »

I got a reply back saying they would honor the PTS I had on the exchange for the snapshot as PTS_S3. I wasn't trying to drag them through the mud, just trying to find answers because I am very excited to be apart of the new DACs!

mint chocolate chip · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:14:34 am »

BTER went through this process already, they did a commendable job handling the PTS_S to BTSX.

xeroc · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2014, 07:12:08 am »

The probably disabled withdrawals and deposits at that time

robrigo · « **Reply #25 on:** August 25, 2014, 12:30:21 am »

Quote from: cass on August 22, 2014, 12:39:58 am

Quote from: robrigo on August 22, 2014, 12:36:57 am
I decided to move my PTS to bter for the snapshot a couple hours before 11:59:59 PM UTC but I don't think they gave me credit for it. Was I supposed to have PTS_S on my bter account for this snapshot by now?

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they would be recognizing the snapshot at the time it was announced but I hope they will make it right for me. The post on their site never specified a time either, I guess it just said before the 21st (https://bter.com/article/2278) .

It looks like their exchange is based off UTC+8 timezone based on my deposit timestamp: 2014-08-22 06:32:31

So that would have been deposited at 2014-08-21 10:32:31 UTC. I really hope they make it right so my PTS investment wasn't worthless.

indeed interesting.. same issue for me also $:-\$

Hey cass, were you ever able to figure out if they honored your PTS for the snapshot? I got an ambiguous reply back from their support which didn't really answer my initial question of if they snapshotted based on their timezone or UTC. Here's the reply:

"

Dear Sir,
PTS_3 was snapshot on 23:30-24:00 UTC+8 Aug 21 , 8 hours before blockchain time in case of failing to receive PTS on bter account at the deadline.

"

So it sounds like PTS_3 was a "snapshot" taken 8 hours before the real snapshot for backup or something? I responded to try to get more clarification if they are honoring it based on UTC or UTC+8. It seems like it wouldn't make any sense if they are doing UTC+8 as that is a different instant in time from the actual snapshot.

robrigo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:44:00 am »

I was kind of afraid to sell it off as was my initial strategy because of this so it looks like I'll be holding my PTS for the long haul! That won't be such a terrible loss so long as they do indeed give us credit for the snapshot. I put in a ticket for clarification about 25 minutes ago so I'll keep you posted on their response.

onceuponatime · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:42:24 am »

Quote from: robrigo on August 22, 2014, 12:36:57 am

I decided to move my PTS to bter for the snapshot a couple hours before 11:59:59 PM UTC but I don't think they gave me credit for it. Was I supposed to have PTS_S on my bter account for this snapshot by now?

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they would be recognizing the snapshot at the time it was announced but I hope they will make it right for me. The post on their site never specified a time either, I guess it just said before the 21st (https://bter.com/article/2278) .

It looks like their exchange is based off UTC+8 timezone based on my deposit timestamp: 2014-08-22 06:32:31

So that would have been deposited at 2014-08-21 10:32:31 UTC. I really hope they make it right so my PTS investment wasn't worthless.

Sounds like you are OK to me. Might take bter a day or two to get the snapshot results to reflect in your balances.

cass · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:39:58 am »

Quote from: robrigo on August 22, 2014, 12:36:57 am

I decided to move my PTS to bter for the snapshot a couple hours before 11:59:59 PM UTC but I don't think they gave me credit for it. Was I supposed to have PTS_S on my bter account for this snapshot by now?

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they would be recognizing the snapshot at the time it was announced but I hope they will make it right for me. The post on their site never specified a time either, I guess it just said before the 21st (https://bter.com/article/2278) .

It looks like their exchange is based off UTC+8 timezone based on my deposit timestamp: 2014-08-22 06:32:31

So that would have been deposited at 2014-08-21 10:32:31 UTC. I really hope they make it right so my PTS investment wasn't worthless.

indeed interesting.. same issue for me also $:-\$

robrigo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:36:57 am »

I decided to move my PTS to bter for the snapshot a couple hours before 11:59:59 PM UTC but I don't think they gave me credit for it. Was I supposed to have PTS_S on my bter account for this snapshot by now?

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they would be recognizing the snapshot at the time it was announced but I hope they will make it right for me. The post on their site never specified a time either, I guess it just said before the 21st (https://bter.com/article/2278)

.

It looks like their exchange is based off UTC+8 timezone based on my deposit timestamp: 2014-08-22 06:32:31

So that would have been deposited at 2014-08-21 10:32:31 UTC. I really hope they make it right so my PTS investment wasn't worthless.

mf-tzo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2014, 06:04:37 pm »

ozzy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2014, 05:48:23 pm »

was it today?

mf-tzo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2014, 05:40:44 pm »

I have sent a couple from my wallet and they appeared within 1 hour

ozzy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2014, 04:18:51 pm »

any of you missing PTS in to their bter account?Today ihave sent 2 pts from ypool to bter.com but they never show up

mf-tzo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 20, 2014, 02:41:24 pm »

Quote

I was under the impression that PTS entitled the holder to a stake in ALL future DAC's

PTS entitles you shares to ALL future DACs as long as you keep them in your wallet during the relevant snapshots or if the exchange that has them during the snapshot honors you with those shares.

Quote

I'd be upset if Bter received future 'coins' from my original PTS that they didn't pass on to me.

No one has yet received any other shares from future "coins" since the snapshot for those "coins" (DNS and Vote) is on the 21st August.

BTER is one of the exchanges that honored the 28th Feb snapshot and therefore you have received your BTSX from that snapshot on the specific day.

BTER said that it will honor the current snapshot of the 21st August. This means that if you keep your PTS on BTER during the snapshot you will receive the relevant Vote and DNS shares upon release. Unless of course BTER defaults by then or for some reason decide not to honor you with those shares.

Quote

If they're worthless, does that mean pre Feb 28 PTS are worthless to people who had them in their own wallets on the snapshot date?

All that matters is how many PTS people had in their wallets at the specific time of the 28th Feb snapshot. It doesn't matter how much you had one minute earlier or 1 minute after the snapshot. Those people who had their PTS in their wallet at the time of the snapshot are entitled to BTSX which they can claim on Bitshares X platform. Same applies for the PTS held on BTER during the snapshot (you did receive your BTSX in BTER because you had PTS there at the time of the snapshot)

Please let me know if something is not clear so I can further elaborate.

P.S the 21st August is not the last snapshot. There will be other snapshots days not yet announced for Lotto, music, me, insurance etc..

madcow · « **Reply #15 on:** August 20, 2014, 11:25:54 am »

Thanks for the replies! What I really want to know is if I had withdrawn my PTS from Bter exchange into my own wallet, would those PTS coins be counted in the next snapshot? If that's the case, then I'd be disappointed at Bter not letting me withdraw them, but if they're not, then I'm no worse off than if I'd had them in my own wallet, as Bter did credit me with some BTSX.

I was under the impression that PTS entitled the holder to a stake in ALL future DAC's, and if that's the case I'd be upset if Bter received future 'coins' from my original PTS that they didn't pass on to me. That's why their support response that the 'PTS_S are worthless tokens' confused me. If they're worthless, does that mean pre Feb 28 PTS are worthless to people who had them in their own wallets on the snapshot date?

I love bitshares, but man, it's confusing as hell compared to many other coins (that does make them cool though)!

xeroc · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2014, 08:02:39 am »

Quote from: mf-tzo on August 19, 2014, 07:50:33 am

I have been awake just a couple of hours so my brain is not working yet...

Same issue here ..

maybe I missunderstood the concerns here .. I think I made everything clear to consider when keeping PTS on an exchage and that the PTS_S (snapshotted PTS) on an exchange are worth nothing (supposedly) after the genesis for the snapshotted DAC is release ..
That's all I wanted to make clear

mf-tzo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2014, 07:50:33 am »

Quote

Actually your concerns are not really necessary .. Each snapshot usually is used just once (except the dual snapshot this week, which could also be interpreted as 2 single snapshots at the same time )

Every DAC has a new snapshot on PTS/AGS .. once snapshot is taken and genesis block is released the snapshot PTS on the exchange are worth nothing as probably no future DAC will use an 'old' snapshot to initialize a new genesis ..

Ony - might happen - concern your might have is if a blockchain has to be reseted (for whatever reason) .. then it is the duty of the exchange to also follow the reset ..

Sorry Xeroc but are you talking to me? What concern? my only concern is about bitcoin - fiat exchanges and I am looking for the more reliable out there...I know about the snapshots and about PTS_S on bter and I understand about the blockchain reset but maybe you mean something else with the above that I misunderstand..

If I keep PTS on bter during the 21 snapshot BTER will honor those shares and if I do not sell them and for whatever reason I keep them in there (I am not that crazy just saying..) BTER will most probably use them to honor the next snapshot as well, correct? Or are you trying to say something else?

I have been awake just a couple of hours so my brain is not working yet...

xeroc · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2014, 07:35:42 am »

Actually your concerns are not really necessary .. Each snapshot usually is used just once (except the dual snapshot this week, which could also be interpreted as 2 single snapshots at the same time

)

Every DAC has a new snapshot on PTS/AGS .. once snapshot is taken and genesis block is released the snapshot PTS on the exchange are worth nothing as probably no future DAC will use an 'old' snapshot to initialize a new genesis ..

Ony - might happen - concern your might have is if a blockchain has to be reseted (for whatever reason) .. then it is the duty of the exchange to also follow the reset ..

mf-tzo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2014, 07:28:37 am »

Quote

What you say is true: don't leave anything of value on exchanges when you are not actually trading. But Madcow was talking about "PTS_S" which, as Xeroc explained above, no longer have any value at all, and should just be deleted by bter.

I know. I just found it a good opportunity to warn people about exchanges in cryptos and just kept writing.. Last couple of days I am thinking to buy some more BTSX and I am afraid to do that because I don't want to put fiat money to any bitcoin exchange... and time is passing, BTSX is rising and by the time I decide to put more money BTSX will have skyrocket...

Does anyone has used bitstamp lately after they changed their bank? Or Kraken? or any reliable exchange I am not aware?

onceuponatime · « **Reply #10 on:** August 19, 2014, 07:22:18 am »

Quote from: mf-tzo on August 19, 2014, 07:10:10 am

Quote
but if Bter closed down how would I claim my future shares in new DAC's? I missed withdrawing before feb 22.

Beware of all the exchanges in crypto... I have a feeling that many will close soon (BTC-e, bitstamp). All crypto investors should understand sooner or later that decentralised platforms like bitsharesx is the future. I suspect that huge drops will happen in bitcoin and all alts due to exchanges defaulting, people who got into crypto to make easy money will lose their money and only the ones that truly believe in decentralization and truly in cryptos will remain..when this happens, bitsharesx will skyrocket but then again we will have bitusd and no one in here will care to convert back to usd...

Do not leave in exchanges what you cannot afford to lose!

What you say is true: don't leave anything of value on exchanges when you are not actually trading. But Madcow was talking about "PTS_S" which, as Xeroc explained above, no longer have any value at all, and should just be deleted by bter.

mf-tzo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 19, 2014, 07:10:10 am »

Quote

but if Bter closed down how would I claim my future shares in new DAC's? I missed withdrawing before feb 22.

Beware of all the exchanges in crypto... I have a feeling that many will close soon (BTC-e, bitstamp). All crypto investors should understand sooner or later that decentralised platforms like bitsharesx is the future. I suspect that huge drops will happen in bitcoin and all alts due to exchanges defaulting, people who got into crypto to make easy money will lose their money and only the ones that truly believe in decentralization and truly in cryptos will remain..when this happens, bitsharesx will skyrocket but then again we will have bitusd and no one in here will care to convert back to usd...

Do not leave in exchanges what you cannot afford to lose!

xeroc · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2014, 06:43:33 am »

Quote from: madcow on August 19, 2014, 04:18:18 am

Is there any way to withdraw PTS_S from Bter? I asked there support and they said "PTS_S" is just a 'token', but if Bter closed down how would I claim my future shares in new DAC's? I missed withdrawing before feb 22.

Are my PTS forever stuck inside bter now?

PTS_S is a snapshot of what PTS you HAD over there on 28. of Feb. .. nothing else .. this does not resemble any value anylonger ...
you have received your BTSX initial shares from those PTS_S ... your will NEVER EVER be able to withdraw "pts_S"!

BTER.com could also remove it IMHO

madcow · « **Reply #7 on:** August 19, 2014, 04:18:18 am »

Is there any way to withdraw PTS_S from Bter? I asked there support and they said "PTS_S" is just a 'token', but if Bter closed down how would I claim my future shares in new DAC's? I missed withdrawing before feb 22.

Are my PTS forever stuck inside bter now?

cass · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:51:40 pm »

countdown - http://dotp2p.io/

mf-tzo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:17:03 pm »

thank you!

xeroc · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:12:25 pm »

Quote from: mf-tzo on August 18, 2014, 09:55:12 pm

what time exactly is the snapshot anyway? can we have a countdown somewhere?

last block before 23:59:59 UTC

mf-tzo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2014, 09:55:12 pm »

what time exactly is the snapshot anyway? can we have a countdown somewhere?

xeroc · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2014, 09:50:17 pm »

BTER does too ..
https://bter.com/article/2278

mf-tzo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:12:59 pm »

Does anyone knows if Bter is honoring the 2 PTS snapshots on the 21st or only BTC38 does?