Author Topic: Nxt Rollback & Bitshares - Just an Idea for Consideration  (Read 11187 times)

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Offline bytemaster

What would prevent a government to pay delegates to retrieve funds identified as tax evaders' possession?

Their is always the option to hard-fork if delegates are corrupted in such a manner.  Delegates can be voted out as well.  Also, the amount in question must be above a certain threshold before it can even be considered.  Ie: a government couldn't bribe delegates to go after the little guys. 

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Offline bytemaster

Wanted to ask the same question ever since the incident happened:

If the BTSX on BTER had been stolen, what would we do?

Would you have offered (the software for a fork) and would you have expressed opinion for/ against fork?

After all the rumor is NXT was as exposed, as probably BTSX and other coins on bter.

My opinion is that majority should decide so that the developers are not put in the position to answer this question ;)
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Offline Empirical1

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I have to think about this one.

At the time. Off the top of my head I thought we could take the the top 1-20 delegates and tell the even numbered ones to change their names to 'YES' and the odd numbered ones to change their name to 'NO' for 24/48 hours. Then shareholders add and remove approval as necessary. At the end of 24/48 hours you can see by how many YES's are in the top 10 or adding/re-calculationg their approval to determine which decision shareholders at that time support.

Difference between the two strategies being we would know how BTSX shareholders felt about that particular incident maybe. 

I'm sure there's probably lots of problems with this approach, one being people might be lazy to re-adjust their vote afterwards and delegates might be pushed down a few positions by being randomly assigned the unpopular decision
(2. Maybe the hacked funds could influence the approval levels unless we could block them from voting.) 

Offline BldSwtTrs

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What would prevent a government to pay delegates to retrieve funds identified as tax evaders' possession?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 09:03:26 pm by BldSwtTrs »

Offline thisisausername

I don't see how not implementing the idea helps with the potential problems (delegates could be bribed to a different fork as is, no?)  I'd say go for it.
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Offline speedy

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Difficult question, but after BitUSD launches, there will be less need to keep BTSX on the exchanges, so this is less of an issue.

Offline tonyk

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Wanted to ask the same question ever since the incident happened:

If the BTSX on BTER had been stolen, what would we do?

Would you have offered (the software for a fork) and would you have expressed opinion for/ against fork?

After all the rumor is NXT was as exposed, as probably BTSX and other coins on bter.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 08:44:50 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline bytemaster

There comes a point in every crypto-currency's life where a major hack threatens the health of the system.   It is always possible for major stakeholders (miners) to hard-fork in order to correct the problem, but hard-forks are messy and ugly.

The options for a network are:

a) never reverse transactions, to hell with the share price
b) permit bailouts with consensus

If the BTSX on BTER had been stolen, what would we do?   It would certainly be within our power to reverse it with a single update pushed to the delegates.  It could potentially "fork" the network if the delegates disagreed with the process.

Given that forks are "difficulty but possible" it sets a certain threshold that must be reached before it would be considered.  I think that it may be best to recognize that sometimes a network needs to come to consensus about this stuff and design it in ahead of time so that there are no hard forks.   

Fortunately we have delegates and thus we can design a process something like this:

Step 1)  Pay a large fee to propose reallocating funds from a set of addresses to a new set of addresses.
Step 2)  Delegates have 48 hours to approve the reallocation during which time the funds are frozen.
Step 3)  Require 51% of the delegates to approve it.
Step 4)  Like the pay-rate, delegates can campaign on a platform of always voting NO and this campaign promise can be enforced.
Step 5)  The amount in question must be greater than X% of the shares, and the fee should be very high.

Potential Problems:
1) Someone could attempt to "bribe the delegates" by proposing a massive reallocation to the delegates as part of approving the process....
   a) someone could also do this to bribe miners, forgers, etc to mine on the fork

Bottom line is this:  if it is possible to implement via a hard fork and there are cases where people would choose to hard fork, then perhaps we should formalize the process and prevent the hardfork and overall disruption.   The mere presence of such recourse is likely to prevent many large thefts in the first place.

Thoughts?

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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.