Author Topic: Negative Post about Bitshares  (Read 23309 times)

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Offline donkeypong

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What's interesting is this guy doesn't allow comments on his blog post.  Guess he doesn't want to enter the arena of ideas and have his challenged.  But he does have a place to email him directly. I suggest we win him over, or attempt to rather than fight him.  His opinion is based on a lot of ignorance about BitShares, but it's good practice for all of us to win over our worst critics, or attempt to, even if we dont.  What's amazing to me is that with as many people as we meet and talk to at all the events we attend, rarely do we find anyone who has more than one or two objections...so bloggers like this are certainly in the minority..... B

I think if we ignore him, then no one will care what he thinks anyway. We can let our success speak for itself. But you are right; if someone wants to engage with him, then it should be in a positive and educational manner.

Offline MktDirector

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What's interesting is this guy doesn't allow comments on his blog post.  Guess he doesn't want to enter the arena of ideas and have his challenged.  But he does have a place to email him directly. I suggest we win him over, or attempt to rather than fight him.  His opinion is based on a lot of ignorance about BitShares, but it's good practice for all of us to win over our worst critics, or attempt to, even if we dont.  What's amazing to me is that with as many people as we meet and talk to at all the events we attend, rarely do we find anyone who has more than one or two objections...so bloggers like this are certainly in the minority..... B

Offline fuzzy

Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.

 +5%

lol...cheap shot cheap shot. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline liondani

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Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.

 +5%


Offline donkeypong

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Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.

Who knows? Adam clearly has multiple personalities. Does he do voices, too? Channeling Robin Williams... Preston Byrne is an American who moved to the UK so he doesn't even need a swanky accent.

Offline oco101

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Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.
lol

Offline tonyk

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Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline yellowecho


From the article I learned that he knows the 2 sides of the balance sheet.

The reason why each item goes on this particular side, is a concept above his pay grade...

lol so true.

By way of explanation, this article was posted by a founder of Eris Industries:

http://www.linkedin.com/company/eris-industries?trk=ppro_cprof

"Eris Industries designs and builds distributed autonomous organisations (DAOs) and smart contract solutions for corporate and institutional applications using advanced technology to reduce client costs with a specialization in the finance, insurance, and construction sectors."

"Eris Industries was founded by Casey Kuhlman, Dennis McKinnon and Preston Byrne after its founders designed, built, and deployed the world's first useable DAO platform."

This platform reportedly runs on .... Ethereum:
http://www.coinfeed.net/news/lifestyle/bitcoin-millionaire-announces-the-winner-of-his-100k-bounty.html

HAHA! That's hilarious since he's so adamant that DACs aren't real ("'decentralized companies' aren't actually companies") yet DAOs are real.  ::) It takes a really sleazy lawyer to argue such semantics especially after previously criticizing other language as "technobabble". LOL
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline donkeypong

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Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder

Yep, that's Adam for you. Hopefully, everyone will enjoy Mr. Byrne's discussion of smart ledgers and anti-government rhetoric. Fascinating stuff.

Offline donkeypong

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No one has mentioned a single good point that author made, since he didn't have any. The big point about BitShares he missed, in my opinion, is its element of collateral. This is a securities lawyer who either doesn't understand the fundamental definition of a secured transaction or he didn't take the time to read that far in the whitepaper. If the man is a Bitcoin believer, then how can he possibly think BitShares is any 'worse' than Bitcoin in terms of intrinsic value? Because it's not as if we'd be arguing with someone who thinks Bitcoin and the blockchain are worthless. BitShares accomplishes far more, and fills more needs, than does Bitcoin. If it catches on the same way, then this guy's going to be deleting his blog post.

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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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I am happy to see such long articles about BTSX, no matter it's positive or negative. At least we know the attitude from the perspective of outsider.   
BTS committee member:jademont

Offline yellowecho

Can someone on your team who isn't you take the time to respond to the article explaining why he's wrong?   

I'm sure my understanding as well as his would benefit from a meaningful and point by point response to this article.

I'm not on Bytemaster's team and I certainly would not consider myself even remotely qualified enough to speak on their behalf but here's my own point by point breakdown and thoughts on why the article is FUD:

1. This is wrong because funding for the Bitshares ecosystem came from donations (AGS) and PTS not from BTSX.

2. This is ridiculous.  Since when is it frowned upon to encourage communities to write articles about upcoming projects or discuss emerging technologies?  Why is it bad to have a nice website?  And why does he think being ignorant ("technobabble") about new technologies is cool?

3.  He plainly states "'decentralized companies' aren't actually companies" so he already has his mind made up that DACs and DAOs aren't real.  Again, plain ignorance and unsubstantiated.

4.  This is wrong because his example is not analogous with how BitsharesX works.  First, he says that it's 'sort of like buying a mortgage that's secured on itself instead of a house'.  That's not analogous because such an example uses dollars to buy debt secured by debt instead of an asset.  BitsharesX would be closer to converting your bank stock equity to USD and depositing that USD at a the same bank.

5.  He says a lot of nothing then he only looks at one side of the trade as he states, "Anyone bringing a BitAsset into existence will be betting that BTSX will rise vis a vis the price of that associated asset."  False.  Further, he states "Most significantly, anyone who wants to bet against BTSX against a BitAsset (though it might make more sense to just short it against Bitcoin on, e.g., a third party exchange) cannot do so without buying BTSX and posting BTSX as collateral first."  This is also not completely accurate because bitAssets could be acquired outside of the exchange and traded against each other.  Even if that weren't true (correct me if I'm wrong there), I fail to see the difference between how BTSX works versus a centralized bank or exchange.  You have to first have USD to short a stock and when you sell you have to convert back to dollars.  Trading on Gox you'd have GoxUSD that's only backed by Gox.

6. He's correct regarding increased exposure to BTSX during price declines; however, his other statements are unsubstantiated as he hasn't seen any of the fundamentals or algos for the prediction market and does not know to what extent the system is able to cover.  Also, his entire example with GM is inaccurate as he's treating it as a traditional derivative with both sides posting collateralized debt obligations and the like.  Futhermore, his scenario ends with a value destruction which doesn't occur in BitsharesX..BTSX just trades the risks.  So yes, increased exposure to the underlying is a risk but as an stockholder that just means your equity holdings increase.  So the risk would equate to holding more BTC in a falling BTC environment if you held a bitAsset... oh no!

7. He phrases his argument as if purchasers of bitAssets are being deceived by what they represent which is also unsubstantiated.  "No word on what happens if the price of BitShares collapses completely, such that every BitAsset is chronically under-collateralised."  Right there he's of the impression that Bitshares (and likely all cryptos) have a natural real world value of zero.  A ridiculous statement given the success of Bitcoin and the top 300 cryptos with a non-zero balance.  He also is ignorant of the market mechanics regarding Bitshares insurance for shorts undercollateralized and doesn't address that in a selloff there'd be an increase in dividends (or burn) that would also help alleviate the downward pressure.

8. He's not even making a new argument here; he's still trying to milk the argument of undercollateralized loans.  Not only that but it sounds like he's confused regarding who actually owns a bitAsset since holders of bitAssets are long positions.  Additionally, he's also forgetting that bitAssets can trade against each other and the only downside being increased exposure to BTSX.  Again, this is no different than being in a falling USD environment and having increased exposure to USD and bitching about how the value of your bonds is being effected.

9. "?"

10. ?

11. "this is a month-old cryptocurrency that makes money by issuing redeemable asset-backed promissory notes".  The system makes money from transaction fees alone.  He's wrong yet again because bitAssets are long positions.  So what his argument really boils down to is that a black swan event or extreme downward movement in BTSX will make holders of bitAssets have greater exposure to BTSX so the system is doomed to implode on itself... as if that possibility doesn't exist in every monetary system ever created.  He makes a bunch of unsubstantiated assertions lacking proper understanding of the system or market behavior but still remains proud of his ignorance.  Splendid.   
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 10:20:14 pm by yellowecho »
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Offline tonyk

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From the article I learned that he knows the 2 sides of the balance sheet.

The reason why each item goes on this particular side, is a concept above his pay grade...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Shentist

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from

ttp://prestonbyrne.com/

Quote
I’m an associate lawyer with Norton Rose Fulbright’s London office, a fellow of the Adam Smith Institute, and a co-founder of Project Ðouglas and Eris Industries.

My primary practice (securitisation) consists mainly of advising on a range of asset-backed transactions including CMBS, RMBS, covered bonds, esoteric ABS such as utilities and transport, and credit support/risk transfer arrangements including single-tranche and portfolio guarantees. The securitisation team regularly acts for a broad cross-section of public and private sector industry participants, including issuers, trustees, borrowers, guarantors and investors.

As to cryptocurrency and decentralised computing (crypto), I’m currently focusing on industrial uses for blockchains – particularly commercial applications for smart contracts/DAOs. I consult regularly with established industrial enterprises, developers and entrepreneurs in the space, both within my practice and independently. If you’re in the field and have a business or legal query, please feel free to get in touch – my contact details are at the bottom of this page. I’d be happy to hear from you.

Uniquely among global law firms, Norton Rose Fulbright has an active international crypto practice, and the firm represents a range of clients in the space. We regularly advise on domestic or cross-border business issues encountered in the industry, whether in relation to (i) tax, (ii) insolvency, (iii) corporate formation and governance, (iv) intellectual property,  (v) crowdfunding, payment services or other financial regulation, (vi) KYC and AML, (vii) litigation, (viii) structuring and securities, or (ix) venture capital financing from the firm’s network of offices in over 50 cities worldwide.

As to the ASI, my current interests include housing reform and alternative finance – including, naturally, cryptocurrency, on which I regularly blog, give talks or provide press comment.

All views expressed on this website are solely my own. They do not represent the views of Norton Rose Fulbright or the Adam Smith Institute.

now i read his blog post. sry, i just read from the start insults to the whole projects. that's piss me off. He claims he is a lawyer, but who can expect fairness from a lawyer?

Quote
My primary practice (securitisation) consists mainly of advising on a range of asset-backed transactions including CMBS, RMBS, covered bonds, esoteric ABS such as utilities and transport, and credit support/risk transfer arrangements including single-tranche and portfolio guarantees. The securitisation team regularly acts for a broad cross-section of public and private sector industry participants, including issuers, trustees, borrowers, guarantors and investors.

sry, i am just laughing loud. he is one of this over paid guys who fucked up the whole planet and just pretend they saved us all. he can not be on "our" side, because he gets paid from people they are totally against crypto, bitcoin 2.0 and so on. it would be to ask Ben Bernanke if this project can success. He will tell "no".

the answer is on the field, so just wait and smash us later.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 08:42:15 pm by vikram »