BitShares X inactivity fees?

[Riverhead]

During the Mumble session on Friday Sept 5, 2014 I asked BM about this and here is a summary of his thoughts:

1) Any action on the account counts, such as simply logging in to collect your interest. This is much like what banks do today with accounts that become dormant over a period of time. Also, since the platform supports an API it is possible for 3rd party software to provide a service of tending to your funds to make sure they see some activity.

2) The 5% inactivity fee provides a valuable service to the ecosystem. With most crypto currency implementations when a private key is "lost", i.e. the owner has lost access to their private keys, or very small amounts (dust) is left languishing as unspent outputs, these funds are lost forever. The network doesn't know what percentage of supply accounts for "lost" funds. With the 5% inactivity fee these funds will eventually get merged back into the network to rejoin supply.


3) As stated above this is still in the very very early discussion process. There is 10 - 11 months left to figure it out.

[xeroc]

This may have been answered before but (question below)

as long as you are voting for someone you wont lose your BTSX?

nope ... voting is part of a transaction .. if you take a closer look at the transaction (in raw format) there is afield called ""net_delegate_votes":".

you still own all the btsx .. you only need to pay a transaction fee for voting

[eagleeye]

This may have been answered before but (question below)

as long as you are voting for someone you wont lose your BTSX?

[xeroc]

BM stated in another thread that the user only needs to prove ownership of the private key to avoid inactivity fees.   So a  vote transaction is all that is necessary,  no need to move all funds.

Under the hoods the "vote" button does nothing else than tranfer all your funds in the account to vote

[gamey]

Dan talks quite a bit about that somewhere here.  https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/bitshares-community-and-developer-hangout-9-5-2014 

Not necessarily ownership of keys, but why inactivity fee is what it is. 

[patrickb323]

BM stated in another thread that the user only needs to prove ownership of the private key to avoid inactivity fees.   So a  vote transaction is all that is necessary,  no need to move all funds.

[joele]

you can send it back to the same account where it came from

from: foobar
to: foobar
amount: all ;-)

Can you use the "Vote"? because voting also transfer all fund to itself.

[xeroc]

who knows .. maybe in some months .. there will be a nice and easy way for cold storage .. just make a new cold storage .. make the old one hot and directly move your stuff to the new cold storage while voting ... not tooo difficult

[gamey]

This should be a wallet feature.    Prompt user to refresh funds over  X months.


this kind of sucks for cold storage.   right?

It has problems.  Just like everything in life, there are always trade offs or else the solution would be obvious. I agree though, it is not a good thing for cold storage.  They're the ones negatively impacted by this.

Please keep in mind this feature has not even been implemented yet.  Personally I will be surprised if it is implemented even when the first anniversary rolls around as I suspect higher value features/items will be added first.

[patrickb323]

This should be a wallet feature.    Prompt user to refresh funds over  X months.


this kind of sucks for cold storage.   right?

[gamey]

Can anyone else confirm that sending it from your own account to your own account will count as a transaction and avoid the 5%?

Yes, as long as you have an actual transaction.

The 5% has not been implemented as of yet.

When it comes around to it and people are close to being impacted, I'm sure there will be much lively discussion.

I wish I had better answers, but there are a million things going on and the priority of implementing the inactivity fee is quite low.

[mas]

Can anyone else confirm that sending it from your own account to your own account will count as a transaction and avoid the 5%?

[xeroc]

you can send it back to the same account where it came from

from: foobar
to: foobar
amount: all ;-)

[bobohuy]

So I just move all BTSX from 1  account to another account in same wallet. Is it ok ?

[xeroc]

How exactly does having you move your BTSX encourage voting?[/li][/list]

As long as you don't move your stake you cannot change your votes!

What exactly is 'pruning the blockchain', and how is it beneficial?[/li][/list]

Pruning means that everthing older than 365 days will be auto-moved to the fron
of the block so that the client can remove blocks older than 365 days .. thus
reducing the size of the blockchain.

Does the client give you a warning a while before you need to move your BTSX?[/li][/list]

Currently not .. but we are still 11 months away from that .. maybe the devs
will implement sth like this in time.

[GordonS]

It allows the blockchain to be pruned and incentivizes voting.

Maybe I'm missing something, but:

• How exactly does having you move your BTSX encourage voting?
• What exactly is 'pruning the blockchain', and how is it beneficial?
• Does the client give you a warning a while before you need to move your BTSX?

[gamey]

Just for clarity, to avoid 5% inactivity fee, can we just move 1 bts around from each account - or do all bitshares need to be moved each year?

ALL need to be moved

What's the point in this then?

Does the client give you a warning a while before you need to engage in this pointless exercise?

It allows the blockchain to be pruned and incentivizes voting.

[GordonS]

Just for clarity, to avoid 5% inactivity fee, can we just move 1 bts around from each account - or do all bitshares need to be moved each year?

ALL need to be moved

What's the point in this then?

Does the client give you a warning a while before you need to engage in this pointless exercise?

[xeroc]

Just for clarity, to avoid 5% inactivity fee, can we just move 1 bts around from each account - or do all bitshares need to be moved each year?

ALL need to be moved

[pgbit]

Just for clarity, to avoid 5% inactivity fee, can we just move 1 bts around from each account - or do all bitshares need to be moved each year?

[eagleeye]

so I send it from one bter account to another?

In case of exchange, avoid 5% inactivity fee will be exchange responsibility.
Your should do it only if you have BTSX in your wallet.

thank you for the knowledge

[testz]

so I send it from one bter account to another?

In case of exchange, avoid 5% inactivity fee will be exchange responsibility.
Your should do it only if you have BTSX in your wallet.

[eagleeye]

so I send it from one bter account to another?

[tonyk]

You will have to send them to yourself at least once a year to avoid that 5% fee.

[eagleeye]

I was reading the FAQ on http://bitshares.org/faq/

It said "What fees are charged to users of BitShares X?...5% inactivity fee is assessed to every address that has had no activity for a full year"

What does this exactly mean?  Will I lose 5% of my BitShares X by just holding them or ?