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Offline profitofthegods

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Confused by market order, please help
« on: August 25, 2014, 06:11:16 PM »

I've just been playing with the new functionality making small test orders, and I am quite confused how it actually works.

I started off by shorting USD.

I couldn't see this left as an open position anywhere with information about collatoral and margin requirement, but I had thought the idea was I then needed to buy USD to cancel out this 'loan', so I bought the same amount of USD. But those USD were just added to my balance - so what happened to the loan? Do I still need to repay USD at some point, and if so when?

Offline profitofthegods

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 06:27:03 PM »
Oh, sorry, so the system doesn't automatically sell the USD for you when you short? I was told by someone that it did. So can someone explain to me how this thing is actually supposed to work please.

Offline patrickb323

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 07:50:51 PM »
I have the same confusion.   I do some test shorts and try to figure out what is happening but it not clear in the UI.

when is the collateral taken? 

Offline bytemaster

Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 07:54:28 PM »
Short USD Wallet   BTSX -> Short Order
Sell BTSX Wallet BTSX -> Ask Order

On Match:

Short Order BTSX -> Cover Order
Ask BTSX -> Cover Order
Cover Order USD -> Ask Owner

On Cover:
Wallet USD -> Cover Order
Cover Order Collateral XTS -> Wallet XTS

The transaction history in your account shows how funds are flowing.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bernard

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 10:21:32 AM »
Maybe i'm doing something wrong.. I cant even get the simplest market order working.

I have some BTSX, I go to BitUSD/BTSX market and say short BitUSD.. I click on the highest bid price and put in a low qty like 1 BitUSD.

The GUI comes back with a red error box in the top right corner saying something about order price < max bid price or something, then my order disappears.

What am I doing wrong?

Also, what are the Margin orders? How do they relate? I cant see any way to buy/sell them.

Offline puppies

Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 10:34:10 AM »
Maybe i'm doing something wrong.. I cant even get the simplest market order working.

I have some BTSX, I go to BitUSD/BTSX market and say short BitUSD.. I click on the highest bid price and put in a low qty like 1 BitUSD.

The GUI comes back with a red error box in the top right corner saying something about order price < max bid price or something, then my order disappears.

What am I doing wrong?

Also, what are the Margin orders? How do they relate? I cant see any way to buy/sell them.

There is a 1 hour moving average that limits the price swings of the shorts. 
Quote
The limiting algorithm is   average price * 10 / 9... average price gets updated every time a trade occurs...  this limits new shorts, but strait up USD vs BTSX can trade at any price.   This is a birthing problem... working to increase the average price.

The margin orders are short orders that others have created, organized by the price at which their margin will be called.

https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

jakub

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 08:14:46 PM »
Also, what are the Margin orders? How do they relate? I cant see any way to buy/sell them.

Can anyone answer this? I wish I could but I don't know myself.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 08:18:20 PM »
Also, what are the Margin orders? How do they relate? I cant see any way to buy/sell them.

Can anyone answer this? I wish I could but I don't know myself.

Margin orders will execute automatically when the highest bid falls below the call price and is within 10% of the 24h moving average.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

jakub

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 08:33:26 PM »
Also, what are the Margin orders? How do they relate? I cant see any way to buy/sell them.

Can anyone answer this? I wish I could but I don't know myself.

Margin orders will execute automatically when the highest bid falls below the call price and is within 10% of the 24h moving average.

So what is the purpose of the "Margin orders" table in the GUI? What kind of information does it give me?
"Buy orders" show me at what prices I can sell, "Sell Orders" show me at what prices I can buy, and what does the "Margin orders" table tell me?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 08:39:07 PM »
It tells you at what price others are forced to buy.  Ie... how close to a short squeeze the market is :)
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

jakub

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 08:48:23 PM »
It tells you at what price others are forced to buy.  Ie... how close to a short squeeze the market is :)
So why is it sorted from the highest price (33.998933) to the lowest (30.296) and not the other way round?
If the current price is around 23.50 surely the 30.296 short will be forced to cover first and before the 33.998933 one.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 08:58:03 PM »
I've just been playing with the new functionality making small test orders, and I am quite confused how it actually works.

I started off by shorting USD.

I couldn't see this left as an open position anywhere with information about collatoral and margin requirement, but I had thought the idea was I then needed to buy USD to cancel out this 'loan', so I bought the same amount of USD. But those USD were just added to my balance - so what happened to the loan? Do I still need to repay USD at some point, and if so when?

It might be that you didn't use the COVER button to cover your short.  Sounds like you just bought some more BitUSD.  I believe you have to use the COVER button to actually repay the "loan".  That will payoff the bitUSD loaned to you by applying the bitUSD you bought to your bitUSD loan.  I think.... :-\

« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 09:00:47 PM by GaltReport »

Offline valzav

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 08:59:09 PM »
So why is it sorted from the highest price (33.998933) to the lowest (30.296) and not the other way round?
If the current price is around 23.50 surely the 30.296 short will be forced to cover first and before the 33.998933 one.

jakub, I think you are right, margin orders need to be sorted from lowest to highest. I've created issue for this, should be fixed in next release https://github.com/BitShares/web_wallet/issues/292

jakub

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 09:00:55 PM »


What is the difference between row one and row three?
Both are opened shorts on bitUSD but they difffer in the first column ("Type") and only the third one has collatral column filled up. What's the difference between them?

Offline profitofthegods

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Re: Confused by market order, please help
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 09:07:11 PM »
I've just been playing with the new functionality making small test orders, and I am quite confused how it actually works.

I started off by shorting USD.

I couldn't see this left as an open position anywhere with information about collatoral and margin requirement, but I had thought the idea was I then needed to buy USD to cancel out this 'loan', so I bought the same amount of USD. But those USD were just added to my balance - so what happened to the loan? Do I still need to repay USD at some point, and if so when?

It might be that you didn't use the COVER button to cover your short.  Sounds like you just bought some more BitUSD.  I believe you have to use the COVER button to actually repay the "loan".  That will payoff the bitUSD loaned to you by applying the bitUSD you bought to your bitUSD loan.  I think.... :-\

Yes, thanks, I think this is what happened.

 

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