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Offline fumanchu808

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Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« on: August 26, 2014, 05:37:58 AM »

I get that they are the ones doing the actual mining but does that mean I can pick a delegate and then I no longer need to keep my BitsharesX application open and I'll still technically be mining?

If so, that's wunderbar!

Beyond that do delegates differ in any particular way? I see that some have different pay rates (does that mean they are keeping the difference for themselves?) and reliability ratings.

Approval I'm assuming is the result of the voting but is there anythign else, active delegates do?

I noticed that some have a "bitasset" in their info section, for example USD at a certain price. What exactly is that referring to? How does that asset and price interact with being a delegate?

Sorry for all the questions. This is obviously new and I am a journalist with Bitcoinist.net

I already wrote one article just on BitsharesX leapfrogging competition but I'd love to do a follow up where I explain this stuff to my readers in a contextual manner so they can understand exactly how it might impact them (or the markets).

I'm also tempted to start asking about the asset trading system but I will hold off on that for now (unless anyone wants to say something about it).

Thanks guys and congrats on making it so far up the ladder!

Offline bytemaster

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 05:43:15 AM »
Welcome to the forum....  delegates are effectively elected mining pools which are paid a percentage of the transaction fees collected.  Delegates compete to get elected and are currently earning $177 per month each to maintain a node and keep it up to date.   Delegates perform other services for the network including:

block explorers, give aways, charity, tech support, etc.

Delegates are also responsible for producing the initial price feed used to "jump start" the bitasset prediction markets.   Once started BitAssets use the 24 hour moving average (+/- 10%) rather than a price feed to limit margin calls and new short positions.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline gamey

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 05:52:36 AM »

Bitcoin takes 10% annually away via money supply inflation, Bitshare does not.  (While delivering value!)
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 06:01:56 AM »
I get that they are the ones doing the actual mining but does that mean I can pick a delegate and then I no longer need to keep my BitsharesX application open and I'll still technically be mining?

If so, that's wunderbar!

Yes, you do not need to keep the wallet open to earn profit from the DAC. The delegates are mining the blocks and the network fees (dividends) are divvy'd up according to how many BTSX each person owns.

Beyond that do delegates differ in any particular way? I see that some have different pay rates (does that mean they are keeping the difference for themselves?) and reliability ratings.
Yes delegates differ in the ways that you mentioned. Different delegates charge different rates, anywhere from 0% to 100%, it is up to them to set it how they want. Some of them are for charity, some are for development projects, some just do it for a little extra money, etcetra. Having a purpose helps get a delegate elected.. such as the BTSX multipool project which will make it so people can actually mine BTSX with mining hardware. Everyone is pretty supportive of that, so I think most people vote to approve causes like that.

The reliability ratings are so everyone can tell if the delegate is doing a good job or not by having good up time. If they are crashing all the time or offline all the time, it harms the security of the network and they are likely to get their approval taken away.

Approval I'm assuming is the result of the voting but is there anythign else, active delegates do?
I think most delegates run their instances on Linux and on a VPN or a separate box out of their home, so that is one difference from probably most other users. Other than that it is just their job to try and keep their node online as often as possible, and also keep the client up to date when there are updates published on Github.

I noticed that some have a "bitasset" in their info section, for example USD at a certain price. What exactly is that referring to? How does that asset and price interact with being a delegate?
This is a temporary task of delegates that is only needed when the bitasset markets first launch. Basically the delegates get the current value of BTSX/USD and BTSX/CNY and publish it to the network. This needs to be done only when bitassets are launched until there is proper market depth. After market depth is established in the markets, the price will be determined by people buying and selling the assets and going short or long.

Sorry for all the questions. This is obviously new and I am a journalist with Bitcoinist.net
It's all good

I already wrote one article just on BitsharesX leapfrogging competition but I'd love to do a follow up where I explain this stuff to my readers in a contextual manner so they can understand exactly how it might impact them (or the markets).
Yep, I believe I saw that article.. thanks for that. :)

I'm also tempted to start asking about the asset trading system but I will hold off on that for now (unless anyone wants to say something about it).

Thanks guys and congrats on making it so far up the ladder!

Go ahead and ask away, I will do my best to answer. I'm not as good with the economic stuff but I am starting to understand it better. It is new territory for most of us.

Looks like these guys beat me to it.. at least you'll get a few answers. :)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 06:21:35 AM by CoinHoarder »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 06:06:19 AM »
Just to be clear.. "dividends", "shares", and other terms are pure metaphors.   The "dividends" are "divvied up" via a "buy back or burn" that is performed by the delegates.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline fumanchu808

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 10:12:52 AM »
Thank you everyone for helping me understand Bitshares a little bit more.

I'm wondering if anyone can explain the whole Bitasset thing a bit better. From the marketing I get the feeling that BitsharesX will have markets that are tied to real world markets somehow but I don't see where/how they are tied to said markets. So some clarification on how something like BitUSD works in practice and/or theory would be nice.

Does BitsharesX have any plans to make spending profits on these markets direct or will a user always have to jump out of BTSX and into something that can interact with a payment system?

Oh and does BitsharesX pay out anything to it's parent DAC, Bitshares? Should we expect BitsharesX's success to boost Bitshares revenue directly?

I have more questions developing in my mind but for now any help with those will be greatly appreciated.

Offline fumanchu808

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 02:24:36 PM »
Thank you again to the people that sent me BTSX to register, however the app does not let me register, which is very, VERY frustrating since it traps my BTSX on an exchange (where security specifically dictates it not be left). As you can imagine it's pretty scary to have someone tie up your resources in such a way that you can't move them unless we jump through a lot of inefficient hoops first. That's kind of the thing that drove people to invent cryptocurrency in the first place.

I've posted the error in technical support but I noticed my post in tech support doesn't show up when I do a search either. Again, not a good look to exclude tech support posts from your search function. I mean... that's half the reason to ever use the search bar...

Hope this gets resolved before I discover the BTSX flies away and that's what my next article ends up having to be about. I hate doing bad reviews. I want to spread optimism after all.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 02:38:57 PM »
Thank you again to the people that sent me BTSX to register, however the app does not let me register, which is very, VERY frustrating since it traps my BTSX on an exchange (where security specifically dictates it not be left). As you can imagine it's pretty scary to have someone tie up your resources in such a way that you can't move them unless we jump through a lot of inefficient hoops first. That's kind of the thing that drove people to invent cryptocurrency in the first place.

I've posted the error in technical support but I noticed my post in tech support doesn't show up when I do a search either. Again, not a good look to exclude tech support posts from your search function. I mean... that's half the reason to ever use the search bar...

Hope this gets resolved before I discover the BTSX flies away and that's what my next article ends up having to be about. I hate doing bad reviews. I want to spread optimism after all.

I am curious what your problem is when you say "the app does not let me register"?

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 02:43:25 PM »

Offline Empirical1

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 03:24:16 PM »
I hope your registration problem is resolved, you may just be trying to register a name that's already registered.

I agree about the problem of initially funding the wallet. I believe Poloniex has something in place for this.

I worry that it incentivises new users/speculators to leave their BTSX on the exchange. Considering how much volume we do at the two exchanges, I wonder how much BTSX they hold.

I haven't done the math & I don't know how profitable the exchanges are, I know bter is out of pocket from the NXT hack. So I worry if BTSX appreciates quickly, closing shop and taking the BTSX may make them more than they make from overall trading fees over a very long period. As I say I haven't done the math.

I think we should be actively encouraging people not to leave BTSX on the exchange.

Offline fumanchu808

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 08:02:32 PM »
I agree about not leaving on the exchange that's why I'm hoping to get this registration problem fixed, ASAP.

They need to develop a way for me to hold the funds off the exchange, even if I am registered or not. Even if I can't send it to a delegate just yet but I will at least have the my own set of keys and it won't be in the hands of anyone else.

I dislike the Chinese exchanges very much. Having BTSX show up on one or two more exchanges seems like it would help mitigate some of the problems I am having currently (for example I could shuttle the funds from one exchange to another, in case of an emergency).

While I wait on getting the registration problem fixed, I still have a lot of research to do for my article. If anyone feels like taking a look at the questions I posted above and feels like taking a crack at them, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Offline puppies

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 08:07:43 PM »
I agree about not leaving on the exchange that's why I'm hoping to get this registration problem fixed, ASAP.

They need to develop a way for me to hold the funds off the exchange, even if I am registered or not. Even if I can't send it to a delegate just yet but I will at least have the my own set of keys and it won't be in the hands of anyone else.

I dislike the Chinese exchanges very much. Having BTSX show up on one or two more exchanges seems like it would help mitigate some of the problems I am having currently (for example I could shuttle the funds from one exchange to another, in case of an emergency).

While I wait on getting the registration problem fixed, I still have a lot of research to do for my article. If anyone feels like taking a look at the questions I posted above and feels like taking a crack at them, I'd greatly appreciate it.

The problem of not being able to send to an unregistered ID is a limitation of bter.com and btc38.  I agree that they need to fix this.  Poloniex has a fix in place, but last I heard they were having deposit issues.  If you PM me your public key and the name you would like to register, I can register it for you. 
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 08:08:06 PM »
I agree about not leaving on the exchange that's why I'm hoping to get this registration problem fixed, ASAP.

They need to develop a way for me to hold the funds off the exchange, even if I am registered or not. Even if I can't send it to a delegate just yet but I will at least have the my own set of keys and it won't be in the hands of anyone else.

I dislike the Chinese exchanges very much. Having BTSX show up on one or two more exchanges seems like it would help mitigate some of the problems I am having currently (for example I could shuttle the funds from one exchange to another, in case of an emergency).

While I wait on getting the registration problem fixed, I still have a lot of research to do for my article. If anyone feels like taking a look at the questions I posted above and feels like taking a crack at them, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yes normally the way it works is you choose an account name, someone just sends you 1 BTSX, you then register that account name and you can then withdraw from the exchanges to that account name in your wallet (Which you control.)

The entire process can take under 10 minutes. 

Offline bytemaster

Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 08:12:45 PM »
I agree about not leaving on the exchange that's why I'm hoping to get this registration problem fixed, ASAP.

They need to develop a way for me to hold the funds off the exchange, even if I am registered or not. Even if I can't send it to a delegate just yet but I will at least have the my own set of keys and it won't be in the hands of anyone else.

I dislike the Chinese exchanges very much. Having BTSX show up on one or two more exchanges seems like it would help mitigate some of the problems I am having currently (for example I could shuttle the funds from one exchange to another, in case of an emergency).

While I wait on getting the registration problem fixed, I still have a lot of research to do for my article. If anyone feels like taking a look at the questions I posted above and feels like taking a crack at them, I'd greatly appreciate it.

The registration problem was the account name "chu" was taken and thus he couldn't register "fu.man.chu"   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline fumanchu808

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Re: Can we talk a bit about the Delegate System?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 08:13:58 PM »
Hi everyone, I believe bytemaster has taken care of the problem. I'm going to dive headlong into the application now but in the meantime if anyone felt like shedding a little light on how the BitAsset system works, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks again!

 

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