BitShares & Stellar Partnership Thread : BeyondBitcoinX Dev Hangout

[lucky331]

I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

Perhaps we can chat about this a little bit over the course of the coming weeks in our Dev Hangout Sessions.  I am not a Ripple expert, but I do feel on a (somewhat informed) gut level that Ripples philosophy seems at odds with what crypto was meant to do.  Then again, I am only one man--and flawed--so it is important to see others' opinions here.  Thanks for keeping this thread alive!

of course any ripple supporter would want you to partner with ripple labs.  i support both, but stellar is the way to go.

[lucky331]

The starting point is for BitShares to try to build a few native gateways for BTS and fiat to move funds in an out of its network.  The big problem will not be technical but with compliance.  Gateways need banking relationships because they are businesses.  And banks will be very reluctant to serve a gateway that can move funds into an anonymous network like BitShares.  No Ripple gateway will want to lose its banker by acting as a BitShares gateway.

So the next alternative will be to build an automatic gateway BTSX gateway to move BTSX into the Ripple Network where it can be traded for USD.  How might you do that?  It's not too difficult.  Just copy btc2ripple.com.  They did it for Bitcoin and it works great.  Now you will have a cash in/out mechanism.  I'd suggest automating the entire process and make it trustless (almost) by using a Codius contract.  Codius is another open source Ripple project.

With an automatic gateway between BitShares and Ripple you'll find that liquidity in one is liquidity in both.

or something like https://doge-gate.com

set up an order book for bitUSD/STR, and it's good to go.  once you convert then hold STR you can cash out from any gateway.

[x.ebit]

 

[vegolino]

Why do we have to pick one? Both can accept BitUSD. They are not exclusive, IMHO.

[gulu]

Why do we have to pick one? Both can accept BitUSD. They are not exclusive, IMHO.

[liondani]

I created a Facebook account just to get some Stellar ... it didn't go as planned.

ProTip : If you hate Facebook as much as I do and only venture there for some free Stellar, DO NOT attempt to register your FB account with Stellar prior to obtaining some "friends" on Facebook. My account was flagged as a spam account by the Stellar app and I received zero Stellar, but did receive plenty of spam from Facebook. =/

I see the positive side from what I read here....

[celticwarrior72]

The starting point is for BitShares to try to build a few native gateways for BTS and fiat to move funds in an out of its network.  The big problem will not be technical but with compliance.  Gateways need banking relationships because they are businesses.  And banks will be very reluctant to serve a gateway that can move funds into an anonymous network like BitShares.  No Ripple gateway will want to lose its banker by acting as a BitShares gateway.

So the next alternative will be to build an automatic gateway BTSX gateway to move BTSX into the Ripple Network where it can be traded for USD.  How might you do that?  It's not too difficult.  Just copy btc2ripple.com.  They did it for Bitcoin and it works great.  Now you will have a cash in/out mechanism.  I'd suggest automating the entire process and make it trustless (almost) by using a Codius contract.  Codius is another open source Ripple project.

With an automatic gateway between BitShares and Ripple you'll find that liquidity in one is liquidity in both.

[Btc38]

that is a good news

[luckybit]

I think the initial distribution of Stellar is a very important factor to consider here when compared to Ripple. That and Ripple in general isn't very well liked in the crypto-community from what I have seen. Generally seen as too centralised to really add to the crypto-economy.

Centralized is what you want though to interface with regulators. If Ripple has more social connections to the finance / gov then we should go with them if we are looking for Gateways.

[mrbildo]

I think the initial distribution of Stellar is a very important factor to consider here when compared to Ripple. That and Ripple in general isn't very well liked in the crypto-community from what I have seen. Generally seen as too centralised to really add to the crypto-economy.

[fuzzy]

I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

Perhaps we can chat about this a little bit over the course of the coming weeks in our Dev Hangout Sessions.  I am not a Ripple expert, but I do feel on a (somewhat informed) gut level that Ripples philosophy seems at odds with what crypto was meant to do.  Then again, I am only one man--and flawed--so it is important to see others' opinions here.  Thanks for keeping this thread alive!

[ag]

I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

[luckybit]

I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway.

I'd rather use a regulated gateway. We already can buy BitUSD and thats not the problem that Gateways solve. Getting value in is the easy part. The problem is getting value out into legal securities, legal assets, physical precious metals, etc.

There is no way to do this without being fully regulated. The Gateway has to be a financial institution.

At that point when you're already jumping through the hoops.  Why add a layer?  If you're gonna go through all that trouble.  Why ripple?  Just make a btsx gateway.

Because Ripple has invested in a lot of the infrastructure, legal paper work, social and political connections. Why not use their product if the technology is good and they are strategically positioned?

Stellar is an alternative but Ripple would be fine too. Bitshares X shouldn't try to take on Ripple when it can form of symbiotic relationship. Unnecessary competition is not profitable for us.

[puppies]

I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway.

I'd rather use a regulated gateway. We already can buy BitUSD and thats not the problem that Gateways solve. Getting value in is the easy part. The problem is getting value out into legal securities, legal assets, physical precious metals, etc.

There is no way to do this without being fully regulated. The Gateway has to be a financial institution.

At that point when you're already jumping through the hoops.  Why add a layer?  If you're gonna go through all that trouble.  Why ripple?  Just make a btsx gateway.

[luckybit]

I, for one, welcome our new gateway overlords.

I look forward to see what kind of interesting new synergies and developments this partnership could bring. It's an interesting combination that offers many intriguing possibilities. Could you provide a few examples of what you might be able to achieve together?

Here is the main possibility. The ability to turn digital assets into "real" legal securities.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lLqu-Rq2uSDqcPwVwXee3N6G96OFcmv5grWJYwVa93Q/pub

Look at their wishlist. Bitshares is the trading client.

[luckybit]

I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway.

I'd rather use a regulated gateway. We already can buy BitUSD and thats not the problem that Gateways solve. Getting value in is the easy part. The problem is getting value out into legal securities, legal assets, physical precious metals, etc.

There is no way to do this without being fully regulated. The Gateway has to be a financial institution.

[puppies]

I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway. 

[Blahbleuhbleuh]

I, for one, welcome our new gateway overlords.

I look forward to see what kind of interesting new synergies and developments this partnership could bring. It's an interesting combination that offers many intriguing possibilities. Could you provide a few examples of what you might be able to achieve together?

[lucky331]

This may be a noob question, but what exactly is needed from Ripple/Stellar in order to complete the Bitshares ecosystem? What do they offer that Bitshares is currently unable to provide?

an easier way to move bitX (X being USD, BTC, LTC..etc) around the world. please read more about stellar here:  https://www.stellar.org/learn/

[Tuck Fheman]

I created a Facebook account just to get some Stellar ... it didn't go as planned.

ProTip : If you hate Facebook as much as I do and only venture there for some free Stellar, DO NOT attempt to register your FB account with Stellar prior to obtaining some "friends" on Facebook. My account was flagged as a spam account by the Stellar app and I received zero Stellar, but did receive plenty of spam from Facebook. =/

[Akado]

I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

[luckybit]

Do we really need them? Or is this an attempt on their part to drive up hype?

I think I prefer Ripple, idk my opinion isn't set in stone.

We should approach both communities and go with the community which is least hostile to collaboration.

You prefer Ripple? You should approach Ripple and tell them you prefer we go with Ripple.

But one thing is for certain, we need their tech and they need ours. Ripple Gateways are worthless if we don't have anything of value to send through them and our technology isn't nearly as useful if all the value is trapped inside the client.

We need a Gateway to the "real" legal world so that we can own "real" legal securities, properties, assets. What good is owning a lot of digital market consensus simulations of stock if you can't make use of it legally? Get the Gateway right and not only would our market cap reach the billions someday but we'd also be able to "cash out" into legal securities, legal stocks, legal assets.

[jae208]

Do we really need them? Or is this an attempt on their part to drive up hype?

I think I prefer Ripple, idk my opinion isn't set in stone.

[luckybit]

We have made contact with the Brothership

Please post to the following thread.  After your first post, please send me (fuznuts) a pm on the stellar forums with your bitsharesx ID and the link to your post.  Please try to keep the subject matter related to a potential partnership, the idea of potentially sharedropping on PTS/AGS in return for a partnership that would likely put set them up to be Ripple's direct competitor in the future.  Or talk about the Mumble Server and how they can join in on the conversation.

https://stellartalk.org/topic/4561-bitshares-and-stellar-partnership/

We definitely DEFINITELY NEED THIS PARTNERSHIP.
If we can pull this off it could bring us to $1 billion dollar market cap.

[mbaeichapareiko]

Hey fuzz nuts.   

This is confirmation for me as the next coin that has been interesting me quite a bit outside of bit coin, and the technology of bit assets of bitshares has been.....  stellar.  I really like the way stellar is trying to be social media friendly which imho is going to cause bit coin and digital assets to grow very quickly once adoption picks up momentum in the social media communities.    Of course bitshares is a great technology, would be very interesting to see what kind of a  a win / win collaboration will be established from here forward.

Mbae

[Empirical1]

I would like to put it here that I don't like Stellar. They started with giving 6000, and dropped it sharply. The aim seemed to be to garner hype, but then try to keep the maximum to themself.

That said, if it benefits us then good luck.

  I haven't looked into Stellar in the last week or so but I didn't like them when I did.

They severely crushed their share-drop from 6000 to 125 for most users in the week I studied them. Yet according to coinmarketcap they released 500 million odd Stellar that week, which is circa 4 million users, even take into account multi-accounting/a higher average number than 125, that would either make them as well distributed as Bitcoin in a week or they didn't really release 500 million Stellar. Their avg. daily volume was also consistently dropping over that period which wouldn't have been the case if they'd really just share-dropped a 100% extra Stellar onto the market in a 1/2 week period. 

They also had a convoluted grouping and invite system plus a caveat that said they may choose to sharedrop based on specific demographics/geographic locations as required. The entire process made it very hard to track where this supposedly share-dropped Stellar was going.

It seemed they were going to claim to be share-dropping stellar without actually doing so, thereby giving them the illusion of a rising CAP, despite declining/low volumes - the same kind of give-away of false circulation as Ripple. 

As I say I haven't looked into it in the last two weeks and they seemed to have paused at the 1 Billion released mark on CMC, so that looks better...

Edit: But whatever partnerships assist BitShares I'm all for. Just not personally a fan or investor in Stellar given what I looked into at the time.

Edit 2: I forgot - They also claim Stripe had given them $3 Million for 2% of Stellar which would mean they were either paying a valuation of $150 million for a brand new company. (Which is ludicrous) or their Stellar was released immediately and they were really paying $3 million for a very high percentage of initial circulating supply and hoping to profit that way. Either way incredibly sketchy to me the way it was presented. (Oh and they have like 10 000% inflation still to come...)

[Gentso1]

I would like to put it here that I don't like Stellar. They started with giving 6000, and dropped it sharply. The aim seemed to be to garner hype, but then try to keep the maximum to themself.

That said, if it benefits us then good luck.

Please go on.  Everything I have read of Stellar seems like they have gone out of their way to avoid many of the issues Ripple created by their launch.  But I am not an artisan in Stellar's craft

If we need either Ripple or Stellar for gateways, and only could use one--would it be Stellar or Ripple for you?

Who ever is going to give us pts/ags holders the most and who is willing the get the gateway up any running the quickest.
(not a ripple fan , with them deciding to suddenly release the xrp amounts that  ripple labs is holding.....it just seems like a cheap bid for attention)

[nomoreheroes7]

This may be a noob question, but what exactly is needed from Ripple/Stellar in order to complete the Bitshares ecosystem? What do they offer that Bitshares is currently unable to provide?

[fuzzy]

I would like to put it here that I don't like Stellar. They started with giving 6000, and dropped it sharply. The aim seemed to be to garner hype, but then try to keep the maximum to themself.

That said, if it benefits us then good luck.

Please go on.  Everything I have read of Stellar seems like they have gone out of their way to avoid many of the issues Ripple created by their launch.  But I am not an artisan in Stellar's craft

If we need either Ripple or Stellar for gateways, and only could use one--would it be Stellar or Ripple for you?

[sumantso]

I would like to put it here that I don't like Stellar. They started with giving 6000, and dropped it sharply. The aim seemed to be to garner hype, but then try to keep the maximum to themself.

That said, if it benefits us then good luck.

[xeroc]

Ui ... now THIS is interesting ... need to keep an eye on it

[fuzzy]

We have made contact with the Brothership

Please post to the following thread.  After your first post, please send me (fuznuts) a pm on the stellar forums with your bitsharesx ID and the link to your post.  Please try to keep the subject matter related to a potential partnership, the idea of potentially sharedropping on PTS/AGS in return for a partnership that would likely put set them up to be Ripple's direct competitor in the future.  Or talk about the Mumble Server and how they can join in on the conversation.

https://stellartalk.org/topic/4561-bitshares-and-stellar-partnership/