SuperNetworks

[cube]

The conversation between devs (catia and bitfreak) of cryptonite may shed a bit more light into Supernet:

<catia> yeah i dunno. it's like they want supernet to be integrated into coins rpc
<catia> and then to run supernet you have to run daemon for all coins
<catia> so it's like ultimate in blockchain bloat
<bitfreak> hmmm
<bitfreak> so they in order to be a part of the supernet we need to customize the rpc api?
<catia> yeah import their library
<catia> which of course won't work right
<bitfreak> lol of course
<catia> and it violates my #1 goal of killing QT
<bitfreak> I don't really trust the people behind it anyway, too closely related to NXT
<bitfreak> and they can't admit when their anon scheme sucks
<Myagui> but I don't think you need to tie up to local daemon for any coins catia , think you'll only need to run any of the coins if you want to trade from the supernet dividents (which I understand will all be issued as nxt assets)
<catia> yeah it wreaks of scam with IPO stuff and is likely against US securities laws
<catia> because it is structured like an ETF afaict

And this is bitfreak's reply to l777's invitation to Supernet

Quote from: jl777 on August 30, 2014, 06:58:51 AM
OK, it seems clear no interest

Supernetwork IPO on Poloniex
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg8592943#msg8592943

bitfreak's reply: I didn't say I had no interest in the whole supernetwork thing, that does seem like an interesting idea. I just don't think the anonymity scheme you have developed is very compelling, it has too many assumptions which will never hold true in the real world, double spending prevents it from working as you imagine.

[feedthemcake]

Go with your gut. My gut said stay away.

[changematey]

I don't know how much truth or sense this makes but I saw this on the altcoin observer thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg8802514#msg8802514

This guy seems to have dug up some of the assets owned by James, seems he owns majority in most of them. It seems fishy to me.

[gamey]

Am I correct in believing jl777 is completely anonymous ?  His bitcointalk account isn't even a year old...

[CLains]

jl777 saw his opportunity and took it.. everyone else is bowing away responsibility

[cass]

Honestly, i didn't notice the complete thing! SuperNET, BTCD ...First time today on bter.com ...
jl777 - i noticed that he has launched a few assets which are on coinmarketcap.com also. Does they are really functional? IDK

[graffenwalder]

Supernet to me seems a scheme to boost the value of all cryptos that jl777 holds.

Yes it is. The interesting part will be when the ICO/IPO ends.
Because he will always have a buy wall up of 1% of the NAV at NAV (Net Asset Value).
I wonder if pumps will still work, because it's so obvious what the price should be.

Also all the assets that go in to the supernetwork are in a pump.
But once the ICO/IPO ends the pumps are over, which should result in a dump, and thus in a devaluation of the supernetwork.

[tonyk]

ICO = ?

(I'd google it, but the acronym has 50+ meanings)

Initial crowdfunding offering, same as IPO

There is a term and acronym for this already...

Initial crowdfunding offering =  ICO   

... and 'crowdfunding' is a word now, also...

Sorry it's initial crowd offering. This term is used a lot in equity crowdfunding.

Now, that is a good term!... reminds me of:

panem et circenses (en. Bread and circuses)

[Bitshark]

Supernet to me seems a scheme to boost the value of all cryptos that jl777 holds.

[graffenwalder]

ICO = ?

(I'd google it, but the acronym has 50+ meanings)

Initial crowdfunding offering, same as IPO

There is a term and acronym for this already...

Initial crowdfunding offering =  ICO   

... and 'crowdfunding' is a word now, also...

Sorry it's initial crowd offering. This term is used a lot in equity crowdfunding.

[tonyk]

ICO = ?

(I'd google it, but the acronym has 50+ meanings)

Initial crowdfunding offering, same as IPO

There is a term and acronym for this already...

Initial crowdfunding offering =  ICO   

... and 'crowdfunding' is a word now, also...

[graffenwalder]

ICO = ?

(I'd google it, but the acronym has 50+ meanings)

Initial crowdfunding offering, same as IPO

[gamey]

ICO = ?

(I'd google it, but the acronym has 50+ meanings)

[graffenwalder]

The interesting thing is I sit back and examine my own cognitive biases, being a Bitshares fanboy etc. 

Am I lacking in objectivity? 

Is this really as crazy as it seems ? 

I really trust your analyses TonyK, which are just as harsh on Bitshares products as anything else... but still..  I'm just like uhhhh what.  This must be why NXT price has started to grow significantly again.  Either that or maybe it is rebounding after sell off to diversify into Ether or BTSX ?

The reason NXT is on a pump, is that NXT and btcd get a 5% discount on the supernet ICO. Then they sell it on the TOKEN/BTC market for a quick profit.

Also the cheapest way in for non NXT and BTCD holders would be to sell BTC for one of these

Result NXT and BTCD pump. However most tokens sold on the BTC market are being sold below current ICO price.

His current selling point(what he's trying to achieve) is basically start a crypto hedge fund.
At all times he will set up a buy wall of 1% at NAV.

Also some of the funds are given to "super traders" wich are meant to bring extra value.

By all means I'm not trying to convince you guys to buy in to this ICO. The main downfall of supernet is that it's to centralized.

[donkeypong]

[bytemaster]

BitShares hasn't done any pumping. That requires selling on the news, which they've assured they don't do. The more you interact with the BitShares people, the greater your trust and respect will become. They could have cashed out long ago and bought a tropical island, but instead they're in this to change the economic system and improve peoples' lives.

I'm also not convinced that the Super network guy is a pumper. He could have walked away with millions already. Perhaps he wants billions first and will dump at that point. But I think there's a legitimate chance he may be trying to create something better, too. I just don't think his network is going to change that much. We can watch how people use it and then judge.

If this network is allowing coins to combine their best features, then hasn't that already been done? It's called cloning. One developer comes up with a cool new feature and it's open source. A month later, other coins that want it have implemented it, too. Aside from sharing scale, what does this network allow coins to do that they cannot already do?

Even if we sold out everything we own at the highest price to date, a small island beyond our means it is. 

[donkeypong]

BitShares hasn't done any pumping. That requires selling on the news, which they've assured they don't do. The more you interact with the BitShares people, the greater your trust and respect will become. They could have cashed out long ago and bought a tropical island, but instead they're in this to change the economic system and improve peoples' lives.

I'm also not convinced that the Super network guy is a pumper. He could have walked away with millions already. Perhaps he wants billions first and will dump at that point. But I think there's a legitimate chance he may be trying to create something better, too. I just don't think his network is going to change that much. We can watch how people use it and then judge.

If this network is allowing coins to combine their best features, then hasn't that already been done? It's called cloning. One developer comes up with a cool new feature and it's open source. A month later, other coins that want it have implemented it, too. Aside from sharing scale, what does this network allow coins to do that they cannot already do?

[chryspano]

Well, guys, BTSX does its own good share of pumping with the IPO funds per Dan's words, doesn't it? Now it's NXT's turn, why can't NXT do the same?

AFAIK the "IPO funds" that was going to "pump" BTSX was less than the daily trading volume BTER has in btc, this is less than 20% of the total daily trading volume. 


EDIT
Even if they decided to spend all the funds in one day it would be less than 20% of the total trading volume in that particular day and that's it, it's insulting to talk about "pumping" with a tiny amount as this.

[fuzzy]

The interesting thing is I sit back and examine my own cognitive biases, being a Bitshares fanboy etc. 

Am I lacking in objectivity? 

Is this really as crazy as it seems ? 

I really trust your analyses TonyK, which are just as harsh on Bitshares products as anything else... but still..  I'm just like uhhhh what.  This must be why NXT price has started to grow significantly again.  Either that or maybe it is rebounding after sell off to diversify into Ether or BTSX ?

Yes, I think your nailed it there!

It is actually pretty easy thing to do, if you follow the main principals:
- direct you criticism towards ideas, not people;
- trust your guts, more than your brain;
- be prepared to ridicule yourself, and do it harsher than any of your opponents, whenever you find flows in your logic/reasoning.

It does help if you have the IQ score of Albert Einstein (165), as you probably do gamey. Speaking of IQ scores what is your best guess about BM's IQ score? It should be hitting the 180 mark (best guess).

PS
 As NXT goes, it would have been the best crypto around if we hadn't got the lucky chance to have BM born.

 

[racingdude]

Well, guys, BTSX does its own good share of pumping with the IPO funds per Dan's words, doesn't it? Now it's NXT's turn, why can't NXT do the same?

[tonyk]

The interesting thing is I sit back and examine my own cognitive biases, being a Bitshares fanboy etc. 

Am I lacking in objectivity? 

Is this really as crazy as it seems ? 

I really trust your analyses TonyK, which are just as harsh on Bitshares products as anything else... but still..  I'm just like uhhhh what.  This must be why NXT price has started to grow significantly again.  Either that or maybe it is rebounding after sell off to diversify into Ether or BTSX ?

Yes, I think your nailed it there!

It is actually pretty easy thing to do, if you follow the main principals:
- direct you criticism towards ideas, not people;
- trust your guts, more than your brain;
- be prepared to ridicule yourself, and do it harsher than any of your opponents, whenever you find flows in your logic/reasoning.

It does help if you have the IQ score of Albert Einstein (165), as you probably do gamey. Speaking of IQ scores what is your best guess about BM's IQ score? It should be hitting the 180 mark (best guess).

PS
 As NXT goes, it would have been the best crypto around if we hadn't got the lucky chance to have BM born.

[gamey]

The interesting thing is I sit back and examine my own cognitive biases, being a Bitshares fanboy etc. 

Am I lacking in objectivity? 

Is this really as crazy as it seems ? 

I really trust your analyses TonyK, which are just as harsh on Bitshares products as anything else... but still..  I'm just like uhhhh what.  This must be why NXT price has started to grow significantly again.  Either that or maybe it is rebounding after sell off to diversify into Ether or BTSX ?

[tonyk]

@gamey
You for should not read this stuff. If you need to invest in some great fund, you can send me your USD, BTC, NXT, bitBTC, bitUSD, even your BTSX.

After one year I will return all of your funds to you with a 5% return on investment (bare minimum). If I feel lucky/generous and the circumstances do not require me to act otherwise I promise to even share 50% of my gains.

I promise to also invest  only in the most promising crypto around.

 

[gamey]

I know I am being lazy, but 50 pages of a thread is not something I care to read.  I am deeply curious about such things as I try to keep an understanding on what is going on in the crypto-equity world.  Is it really just another asset on NXT exchange ?

In case you haven't seen it here is his whitepaper where he tries to summarize it lol...  http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/8/5/6/38564127/supernet.pdf

TYVM.  I'm still reading this.  It is literally some crazy ass stuff.  There is a reference to someone "buying" technology that is some guy's consulting on how to avoid double spend attacks with NXT.  Apparently this "technology" is part of SuperNet and what you get with the purchase of the NXT asset.

After jl777 bought this "technology" he can now create the next satoshi dice with unconfirmed transactions.

I really can't continue reading. 

It is like....  I am a core dev on a coin.  I claim to know how to prevent double spends and thus decrease confirmation times to help people get their gambling fix.  So instead of talking about "technology",  I offer it up as auction and now it all at once has value ?!  It isn't even code.  Is the blockchain protocol still not documented well enough to figure this crap out?  Bah.

edit - actually this isn't even part of the asset.  The asset is somehow claimed to be backed by all these other assets which provide services.  What a headache trying to figure out what is actually being sold.

[tonyk]

All bs aside, is this really not a technical solution to some nonexistent problem ?

I skimmed through it but when I saw hype and not technical talk, I just moved on.

Is this really not a development project ? 

Is he just claiming there will be a "supernetwork" of coins of his choosing?   What is the glue that adds value to this ?

.... Is this what explains why NXT has started to rise again ??  Is it just another asset to replace NEM which is no longer issuing new NEMStakes ?  If I am correct, NEMStakes drove NXT to highest market cap.

I know I am being lazy, but 50 pages of a thread is not something I care to read.  I am deeply curious about such things as I try to keep an understanding on what is going on in the crypto-equity world.  Is it really just another asset on NXT exchange ?

200 BTSX to anyone can succinctly explain what this he is selling without using an animal metaphor.

I believe I did explained it already -"He is selling himself/his investing generousness (if this is a word))".

Send my tip to Xeroc or Claines - the best 2 community projects, IMHO.

[jaran]

I know I am being lazy, but 50 pages of a thread is not something I care to read.  I am deeply curious about such things as I try to keep an understanding on what is going on in the crypto-equity world.  Is it really just another asset on NXT exchange ?

In case you haven't seen it here is his whitepaper where he tries to summarize it lol...  http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/8/5/6/38564127/supernet.pdf

[gamey]

All bs aside, is this really not a technical solution to some nonexistent problem ?

I skimmed through it but when I saw hype and not technical talk, I just moved on.

Is this really not a development project ? 

Is he just claiming there will be a "supernetwork" of coins of his choosing?   What is the glue that adds value to this ?

.... Is this what explains why NXT has started to rise again ??  Is it just another asset to replace NEM which is no longer issuing new NEMStakes ?  If I am correct, NEMStakes drove NXT to highest market cap.

I know I am being lazy, but 50 pages of a thread is not something I care to read.  I am deeply curious about such things as I try to keep an understanding on what is going on in the crypto-equity world.  Is it really just another asset on NXT exchange ?

200 BTSX to anyone can succinctly explain what this he is selling without using an animal metaphor.

[gamey]

I love you guys.  15 minutes later after posting and I get a pig farmer analogy that clears it all up.

[tonyk]

Let me guess.

Some one pump several NXT-AE Assets.Because nearly all of the NXT-AE volume is too low (even the star product NEM),pumping would be easy.Some of the assets are even his.
Before he pumps,he post a thread: xxx is gonna rise,watch me !I'm Buying!!!

Then ....After ten assets...wow,everyone knows he is a a smart investor with great track record,9 wins,only 1lost.

So,he go to his final game : I'm really good at investing ...You should give me your money to invest .

It's a typical wall-street scam investment trick.....

  Just a crazy guess.

I hear this.  I won't publicly make an opinion because I still don't get what he is trying to do.  Is it like cross-chain trading with all the involved altcoins?  Is it more like a distributed exchange ?

 I guess I could read jl777's posts in that thread and maybe discern what exactly he is doing. I skimmed the whole thing and just really don't get it. 

The thing about supporting all these coins means that you are dependent on the coind's of all the participants.  This is where your problem occurs.  This can't be done in a decentralized manner.  So what is he proposing ??!?

Your are too polite to say this yourself, so let me try this for you - "I, James (aka jl777) am the best developer and financier, in so many ways better than Warren Buffett!"

what is truly funny for me, he is pretty much outright saying that if he has 10% of a coin, he can pretty much 'control' its price. But so can I, btw.

[gamey]

Let me guess.

Some one pump several NXT-AE Assets.Because nearly all of the NXT-AE volume is too low (even the star product NEM),pumping would be easy.Some of the assets are even his.
Before he pumps,he post a thread: xxx is gonna rise,watch me !I'm Buying!!!

Then ....After ten assets...wow,everyone knows he is a a smart investor with great track record,9 wins,only 1lost.

So,he go to his final game : I'm really good at investing ...You should give me your money to invest .

It's a typical wall-street scam investment trick.....

  Just a crazy guess.

I hear this.  I won't publicly make an opinion because I still don't get what he is trying to do.  Is it like cross-chain trading with all the involved altcoins?  Is it more like a distributed exchange ?

 I guess I could read jl777's posts in that thread and maybe discern what exactly he is doing. I skimmed the whole thing and just really don't get it. 

The thing about supporting all these coins means that you are dependent on the coind's of all the participants.  This is where your problem occurs.  This can't be done in a decentralized manner.  So what is he proposing ??!?

[tonyk]

He believes-----right
He truly believes--- right
He Do believes----wrong....  he does believe

Thanks.

English is Shabi...

[tonyk]

Let me guess.

Some one pump several NXT-AE Assets.Because nearly all of the NXT-AE volume is too low (even the star product NEM),pumping would be easy.Some of the assets are even his.
Before he pumps,he post a thread: xxx is gonna rise,watch me !I'm Buying!!!

Then ....After ten assets...wow,everyone knows he is a a smart investor with great track record,9 wins,only 1lost.

So,he go to his final game : I'm really good at investing ...You should give me your money to invest .

  Just a crazy guess.

Good explanation.

He DOES believe, he is a great investor though... {English grammar question: is it 'he does believe' or 'he do believes' or something else, the correct way to write this in English?}

he does,she does,it does,you do,I do.we do.they do.

'I DO believe!' - is not a question though...that's where my confusion comes from.

What is more logical (to me at least) is the following logic:
He believes... --> He truly believes --> He Do believes.

[robrigo]

Let me guess.

Some one pump several NXT-AE Assets.Because nearly all of the NXT-AE volume is too low (even the star product NEM),pumping would be easy.Some of the assets are even his.
Before he pumps,he post a thread: xxx is gonna rise,watch me !I'm Buying!!!

Then ....After ten assets...wow,everyone knows he is a a smart investor with great track record,9 wins,only 1lost.

So,he go to his final game : I'm really good at investing ...You should give me your money to invest .

  Just a crazy guess.

Good explanation.

He DOES believe, he is a great investor though... {English grammar question: is it 'he does believe' or 'he do believes' or something else, the correct way to write this in English?}

You got it right tonyk.

[tonyk]

Let me guess.

Some one pump several NXT-AE Assets.Because nearly all of the NXT-AE volume is too low (even the star product NEM),pumping would be easy.Some of the assets are even his.
Before he pumps,he post a thread: xxx is gonna rise,watch me !I'm Buying!!!

Then ....After ten assets...wow,everyone knows he is a a smart investor with great track record,9 wins,only 1lost.

So,he go to his final game : I'm really good at investing ...You should give me your money to invest .

  Just a crazy guess.

Good explanation.

He DOES believe, he is a great investor though... {English grammar question: is it 'he does believe' or 'he do believes' or something else, the correct way to write this in English?}

[fuzzy]

I looked into the SuperNet idea and the problem he is solving is getting the best tech of each coin and including in all other coins of the network.  Think of it like a hedge fund of several altcoins.  There are many other things to the project I don't completely understand.  However, I'm very interested in seeing how this pans out.

This is why it is a good thing to be forked and cloned.  If the community can enforce some standards for clones that are built on the bitshares toolkit and if we do not get too greedy, we could essentially give thousands of altcoin Devs a reason to put their mental muscle behind solving problems for the BitShares ecosystem.  Everyone, including the Devs, gain substantially from this.

I own some of this supernet because I believe the most brilliant idea is to gain the honor of others who together are far smarter than any one person.  Not sure what to make of it either, though. 

BitShares Toolkit can build entire industries on top of altcoins.  Coins that feel DPOS will beg to be switched over to DPOS and will never look back.  And if we all gain a small stake in all of them, and are not greedy with that stake (hand them out to friends and such)...we can end up with really strong, long term crypto investment portfolios. 

Not to mention the fact that those who make btsx clones will eventually build infrastructure that will help all subsequent clones.  If btsx feels a clone's solution is groundbreaking, btsx can simply adapt to gain those advantages.  Lots of stuff to think about.

[Pairmike]

I looked into the SuperNet idea and the problem he is solving is getting the best tech of each coin and including in all other coins of the network.  Think of it like a hedge fund of several altcoins.  There are many other things to the project I don't completely understand.  However, I'm very interested in seeing how this pans out.

[mbaeichapareiko]

donkey pong,  I sure hope you are right.   

[donkeypong]

We are still early in the game, so something that builds up the infrastructure like this cannot be bad. Not sure what it really changes, though. I've been wrong before, but I don't see NXT or BitcoinDark as a long term answer to anything. NXT badly needed a shot in the arm, but I'm not sure this is a new vision. I see it more as a merger alliance with a couple of smaller fish. NXT is still the elephant in this Super system, so all it really gains is a bit more scale. It's like United Airlines joining a code-sharing mileage alliance with smaller regional airlines; sure, they gain a few additional routes, which will attract some extra passengers, but in the end they're splitting those revenues proportionally, so gain is limited. I guess this guy's network could be useful for something in the long run.

I started my 2.0 journey in NXT and left it for BitShares. Every month or two, I take a look at it, and each time I conclude there is nothing on NXT I really want to own. This Super thing is plugging NXT into other flawed coins. For what? BitShares has vision and unified structure that are lacking EVERYWHERE else I look.

[tonyk]

So jl777 want to people give him thousands of BTC so he can manage them alone, and want to make money thanks to insider trading,
Oh and yes... all of that it's in order to change the world and destroy the fiat system, of course.

Somewhat similar thoughts from me too.


On a side note - what nationality is jl777?  His English strikes me as odd (not necessarily wrong but just odd).

[gamey]

This thread has blown up on bitcointalk.  I missed the original announcement.  Still not sure what he is trying to accomplish technically ?

Anyone have any more comments?  After talking with fuz privately he brought up a good point about NXT etc leapfrogging us.  I am still not sure what "supernetwork" is supposed to achieve and it sounds like a coding nightmare that will be vaporware, but then I really don't get what jl777 is trying to accomplish technically.  Anyone understand? 

[infovortice2013]

i read it in bitcointalk, hey is close to idea of btsx scalability.

materialice ideas is not on everybody hands, i see more like smoke to pump btcd.

[BldSwtTrs]

So jl777 want to people give him thousands of BTC so he can manage them alone, and want to make money thanks to insider trading, and want to keep going the pump of his already overpriced BTCD coin in the process.

Oh and yes... all of that it's in order to change the world and destroy the fiat system, of course.

[fuzzy]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.0

How, exactly is this different from what BitShares will eventually be doing?  This does not seem so lofty and unique to me...

All DACs will essentially be part of the same network of DACs, operating with a set of common currencies that are all pegged to a/a few primary currencies...

NXT is supposedly working in this, but it seems (to me, and at a glance) to be an attempt to pull attention from precisely what BitShares will be doing (not that this is necessarily a bad thing...)

I guess the only difference might be that where BitShares as an ecosystem intends to give people a toolkit to build their own DACs (thus giving them a higher reputation within the system), this would essentially attempt to pull in the altcoin devs from other coins to form a sort of Development Brain Trust. 

(Meanwhile Ethereum sits back, waits to see who the victors will be and then buy them out for all their hard work and innovation)  --sorry have to call it as I see it.

As always, this is just a post to see where others stand on this issue and to give my two btsx.
Disclosure--I am invested in NXT too...