Delegate Legal Fund

[eagleeye]

And *eagleeye* should also keep his original name...

 ~CfA~

What was my original name?  Or if you referring to this name then I will keep it.

I may have made a earlier username but I do not remember (seriously, mind blank)

[tonyk]

Everybody keep saying 'I will probably like JoeyD', 'We are alike',etc etc.
Maybe it is true but I have never read anything controversial from him. Last Saturday my internet connection broke just when he was speaking.

Anyway if it is true maybe I can teach him how to walk on fire (literally):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8ViTxLia4A

[fuzzy]

Maybe you are starting to see why I said I like strong personalities.

Pretty sure you would like JoeyD. He is a wonderfully charming crabass--he and I can go on for hours...

[tonyk]

And *eagleeye* should also keep his original name...

 ~CfA~

[eagleeye]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

What do you mean CryptoTerrorists?  Do you believe because we will be putting people out of jobs?  Or that a hacker will hack the system?  Or that the NSA will hack the system because they have corrupted PGP (Pretty good programming encryption) and cause a false flag?  I have PGP from 30 years ago that the NSA does not have corrupted from a scientist.  It is on CD.

I mean that right now markets are soaring at record heights and 95% of the population doesn't know the difference between fiat and money. 

If(When) the economies around the world crash because of mismanagement and corruption from on high (Congress, for instance, is allowed to LEGALLY do insider trading (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quickly-quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml), those who are largely to blame due to their cocaine, hooker and power addictions are going to look for fall-guys. 

Why not pin a collapsing stock market on cryptocurrency?  Most people do not even know what it is and the media has already primed the pump with the whole "bitcoin paying for terrorism" thing: (http://www.coindesk.com/isis-bitcoin-donations-fund-jihadist-movements/ and here http://rt.com/usa/157552-defense-pentagon-bitcoin-terrorism/).  And let's face it, decentralized exchanges that don't allow High Frequency Trading (HFT) or naked shorting?  How do you think the market manipulators at JPMorgan and the other Top Banks are going to feel about that?

This technology is going to bring Direct Democracy to the people as well.  Many people in positions of power will be out of the job because we will not need them!

That is why we need legal teams, and PR teams.  We need delegates that support projects that fix big problems we never thought it possible to fix.  As for charity--BitShares has a DAC for that. 

On Taxes...Why is it so hard to believe that good people can of their own accord uplift those in need?  There are a great many good-hearted people out there who, if they received 20% more of their pay, would likely use it in ways that would uplift more people from poverty than government 1.0 (part f the Direct Democracy thing). 

 

Without government we will not go back to Kings. We will go forward to Sovereign Individuals.

All wars are banker's wars (and they often fund both sides - at interest).

Yep...  "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".  ~Mayer Amschel Rothschild~

Why would we give them control of our money supply through regulatory framework when we have the opportunity to build society 2.0 and bring the world to a velvet revolution--where innovation jettison's us away from the problems we face instead of mass murder and theft?

If what you are saying is true, and it is then society is corrupt.

It is not like this in all places of the world it is not like this in Norway or the Scandanavian countries.  They have far less corruption.

Back in the pre-1960s society learned as much as they could because they lacked tv, it was books all the time or repetition in a task.  Now that we are back to the computer, it is now a book society rather than a tv society, or so its shifting and it will never be like it was in the past (pre 1900s)

There is a reason they talk about midwestern values but the coasts do not have this they are corrupt because of trade and seeing other cultures and manipulation.  However the midwest does have a higher likelihood of suicide then the coasts.

John D. Rockefeller may be a great man for donating huge amounts of money, but he was corrupt through no fault of his own (it was his upbringing)

I agree, lets get to society 2.0.  Great one theFuzz, absolutely great. 

[tonyk]

Yes, I thought that it is a good idea to change mine to TheOnion 'for obvious reasons' also. Then I reconsidered.

I just needed an excuse to revert back. 

[fuzzy]

It is now 'theFuzz'?

In your honor I am revering back to my original name.   

lol...fuznuts is a nickname I got a long time ago from someone I looked up to.  I've just always had it for online stuff, but I am thinking it is time to change it slightly for obvious reasons

[tonyk]

It is now 'theFuzz'?

In your honor I am revering back to my original name.   

[fuzzy]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

What do you mean CryptoTerrorists?  Do you believe because we will be putting people out of jobs?  Or that a hacker will hack the system?  Or that the NSA will hack the system because they have corrupted PGP (Pretty good programming encryption) and cause a false flag?  I have PGP from 30 years ago that the NSA does not have corrupted from a scientist.  It is on CD.

I mean that right now markets are soaring at record heights and 95% of the population doesn't know the difference between fiat and money. 

If(When) the economies around the world crash because of mismanagement and corruption from on high (Congress, for instance, is allowed to LEGALLY do insider trading (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quickly-quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml), those who are largely to blame due to their cocaine, hooker and power addictions are going to look for fall-guys. 

Why not pin a collapsing stock market on cryptocurrency?  Most people do not even know what it is and the media has already primed the pump with the whole "bitcoin paying for terrorism" thing: (http://www.coindesk.com/isis-bitcoin-donations-fund-jihadist-movements/ and here http://rt.com/usa/157552-defense-pentagon-bitcoin-terrorism/).  And let's face it, decentralized exchanges that don't allow High Frequency Trading (HFT) or naked shorting?  How do you think the market manipulators at JPMorgan and the other Top Banks are going to feel about that?

This technology is going to bring Direct Democracy to the people as well.  Many people in positions of power will be out of the job because we will not need them!

That is why we need legal teams, and PR teams.  We need delegates that support projects that fix big problems we never thought it possible to fix.  As for charity--BitShares has a DAC for that. 

On Taxes...Why is it so hard to believe that good people can of their own accord uplift those in need?  There are a great many good-hearted people out there who, if they received 20% more of their pay, would likely use it in ways that would uplift more people from poverty than government 1.0 (part f the Direct Democracy thing). 

 

Without government we will not go back to Kings. We will go forward to Sovereign Individuals.

All wars are banker's wars (and they often fund both sides - at interest).

Yep...  "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".  ~Mayer Amschel Rothschild~

Why would we give them control of our money supply through regulatory framework when we have the opportunity to build society 2.0 and bring the world to a velvet revolution--where innovation jettison's us away from the problems we face instead of mass murder and theft?

[eagleeye]

Thomas Jefferson was a liberal.  I have no problem with that label. 

I don't have time to debate early American economics with you.  Naturally I disagree with you about both the frequency of what used to be called panics (you got one thing right.  We don't have them anymore.  Now we call them recessions). And what caused these panics.

You have bought into the lie that governments are necessary.

I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now.  I really would love to debate these things with you some day.

Thomas Jefferson was a great man, and so was Benjamin Franklin.

[eagleeye]

I also would have sat on the left side of the French legislature.  Right next to bastiat.  So you could call me a leftist.

Bastiat believed in government, he however did not believe in some of the state policies of the day.  But I will have to read more of him.

[eagleeye]

Thomas Jefferson was a liberal.  I have no problem with that label. 

I don't have time to debate early American economics with you.  Naturally I disagree with you about both the frequency of what used to be called panics (you got one thing right.  We don't have them anymore.  Now we call them recessions). And what caused these panics.

You have bought into the lie that governments are necessary.

I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now.  I really would love to debate these things with you some day.

We will debate some day, for sure!  You will probably win.

I am just saying that.  We are a republic.  The idea of a republic is 2500 years going back to the Greeks and Socrates who I believe is a hero Philospher.

a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
archaic
a group with a certain equality between its members.

This does not mean the system does not have to change meaning there should be a test to become a politician, or we should all be voting on the Internet (if that was the solution)

[onceuponatime]

Without government we will not go back to Kings. We will go forward to Sovereign Individuals.

All wars are banker's wars (and they often fund both sides - at interest).

[puppies]

I also would have sat on the left side of the French legislature.  Right next to bastiat.  So you could call me a leftist.

[puppies]

Thomas Jefferson was a liberal.  I have no problem with that label. 

I don't have time to debate early American economics with you.  Naturally I disagree with you about both the frequency of what used to be called panics (you got one thing right.  We don't have them anymore.  Now we call them recessions). And what caused these panics.

You have bought into the lie that governments are necessary.

I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now.  I really would love to debate these things with you some day.

[eagleeye]

No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?

Free people will never be equal, and equal people will never be free.

I agree with you about a lot of the problems this world faces.  I am not a fan of governments or corporations.  I just want you to realize that when you say taxes.  What you are actually talking about is men with guns stealing peoples property under the threat of kidnapping or death.  That is what taxes are.  If you don't believe me, stop paying yours and see what happens.  You could argue that we must allow men with guns to steal peoples things so they can give them to the poor.  I however would disagree.  I think that theft is always wrong.  Even if you intend to do good with it.  (this is totally ignoring the efficacy of welfare.  Thats an entirely different argument.)

Also.  You are the one that keeps saying we are in a war.  What do you do in a war?  Why do Americans always want to wage wars on things?

I have no wish to fight a war against anyone.

If we do not have taxes?  Who will fund the military to protect us?  (That does not say we need a $600 billion military budget) We will not have regional warlords.  We need a military who believes in the just and proper values.  To protect us, even from ourselves.

Before taxes in America, America was very isolationist due to maybe the Monroe Doctrine.  "a principle of US policy, originated by President James Monroe in 1823, that any intervention by external powers in the politics of the Americas is a potentially hostile act against the US."  We wanted to be left alone.

We did not go to wars much but the system was unstable.  There were continous economic crises, up and down, up and down, much like the early stages of bitshares.  A lack of taxes was early stage.

We need government or else we will go back to kings, which the people of the world will not do, no matter how much money one has the people will not relent.

I do believe in Libertarian policies however, a Libertarian, is a liberal, I am not saying a Libertarian is a Democrat.

[puppies]

No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?

Free people will never be equal, and equal people will never be free.

I agree with you about a lot of the problems this world faces.  I am not a fan of governments or corporations.  I just want you to realize that when you say taxes.  What you are actually talking about is men with guns stealing peoples property under the threat of kidnapping or death.  That is what taxes are.  If you don't believe me, stop paying yours and see what happens.  You could argue that we must allow men with guns to steal peoples things so they can give them to the poor.  I however would disagree.  I think that theft is always wrong.  Even if you intend to do good with it.  (this is totally ignoring the efficacy of welfare.  Thats an entirely different argument.)

Also.  You are the one that keeps saying we are in a war.  What do you do in a war?  Why do Americans always want to wage wars on things?

I have no wish to fight a war against anyone.

[eagleeye]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I like Wikipedias definition of taxes

A tax (from the Latin taxo; "rate") is a financial charge or other levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay, or evasion of or resistance to collection, is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct or indirect taxes and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent.

While poverty can be a terrible thing.  If your solution involves men with guns stealing peoples property under threat of kidnapping or death, then I cannot support it.  You are essentially saying that theft is okay, as long as you intend to do good with it.  I believe that the initiation of violence or the threat of violence for any reason other than self defense is immoral. 

This is disruptive technology.  Many individuals will find themselves freed from unproductive use of their abilities, as more productive means become available.  This will allow them to pursue more productive uses of their assets.  This will no doubt be unpleasant for some.  Some of them may even attempt to fight this progress.  They will probably find like minded simpletons in places of power throughout the worlds governments. 

This is not a war, and the only enemies I can see are those that believe they have the right to use violence against people engaged in peaceful commerce.  I do not propose that we fight them.  I propose that we continue to work to make them and their disgusting world view irrelevant.  That is ultimately what this technology makes possible.

No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?

[puppies]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I like Wikipedias definition of taxes

A tax (from the Latin taxo; "rate") is a financial charge or other levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay, or evasion of or resistance to collection, is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct or indirect taxes and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent.

While poverty can be a terrible thing.  If your solution involves men with guns stealing peoples property under threat of kidnapping or death, then I cannot support it.  You are essentially saying that theft is okay, as long as you intend to do good with it.  I believe that the initiation of violence or the threat of violence for any reason other than self defense is immoral. 

This is disruptive technology.  Many individuals will find themselves freed from unproductive use of their abilities, as more productive means become available.  This will allow them to pursue more productive uses of their assets.  This will no doubt be unpleasant for some.  Some of them may even attempt to fight this progress.  They will probably find like minded simpletons in places of power throughout the worlds governments. 

This is not a war, and the only enemies I can see are those that believe they have the right to use violence against people engaged in peaceful commerce.  I do not propose that we fight them.  I propose that we continue to work to make them and their disgusting world view irrelevant.  That is ultimately what this technology makes possible. 

[eagleeye]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

What do you mean CryptoTerrorists?  Do you believe because we will be putting people out of jobs?  Or that a hacker will hack the system?  Or that the NSA will hack the system because they have corrupted PGP (Pretty good programming encryption) and cause a false flag?  I have PGP from 30 years ago that the NSA does not have corrupted from a scientist.  It is on CD.

[emski]

There is no need to be "friends" with military, government or any entity.
BitsharesX is decentralised system. If needed each single delegate will decentralize => removing the need for exposing identity or trust.
Why should I trust a delegate when even that job can be securely decentralized ?

[eagleeye]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I don't think NYSE/NASDAQ are our enemies. The NASDAQ will not be replaced by Bitshares X. It will be supplemented but not replaced because Bitshares X is like a parallel virtual market.

We cannot issue legal securities on Bitshares X so what does NASDAQ have to worry about?

As far as putting people out of work? Automation is going to put hundreds of millions of people out of work in the decades ahead. Does that mean the entire IT industry is the enemy to the service and other industries?

When you look at the big picture you see that DACs are just part of the larger trend toward automation. If technological unemployment is a result then maybe people can work for DACs and there can be employment in these new industries we are trying to create. Old industries have to fall sometimes so that the economy can survive.

Bitshares could in the future gain the legal right to supplement the NASDAQ meaning they will know this and they will think of us as the enemies and try to crush us.

I agree automation will put people out of work and automation is technology therefore no one should fear technology.  Do not take what I am going to say lightly.  If you believe this and I believe this (that technology is NOT our enemy) then cryptocurrencies has nothing to fear, correct?  But we still fear (And we should till we have the friends to back us up militarily, law enforcement, lawyers and politically).  Once we do not have anything to fear then everything is fine HOWEVER do not believe we can disrupt other countries unless in specific targeted fashions that benefit them as a whole rather than letting ISIS and Assad in Syria now fight when a year ago it was US and ISIS against Assad in Syria. 

[luckybit]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I don't think NYSE/NASDAQ are our enemies. The NASDAQ will not be replaced by Bitshares X. It will be supplemented but not replaced because Bitshares X is like a parallel virtual market.

We cannot issue legal securities on Bitshares X so what does NASDAQ have to worry about?

As far as putting people out of work? Automation is going to put hundreds of millions of people out of work in the decades ahead. Does that mean the entire IT industry is the enemy to the service and other industries?

When you look at the big picture you see that DACs are just part of the larger trend toward automation. If technological unemployment is a result then maybe people can work for DACs and there can be employment in these new industries we are trying to create. Old industries have to fall sometimes so that the economy can survive.

[eagleeye]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

Suppose you do have a legal fund? Delegates may also need friendly relationships with military and law enforcement to protect them from being extorted by the underworld.

I don't see how a legal fund will solve all the kinds of problems which could await delegates.

I think legal problems are somewhat easy compared to the other risks.

We will need friendly relationships with the military and law enforcement.

[luckybit]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

Suppose you do have a legal fund? Delegates may also need friendly relationships with military and law enforcement to protect them from being extorted by the underworld.

I don't see how a legal fund will solve all the kinds of problems which could await delegates.

I think legal problems are somewhat easy compared to the other risks.

[eagleeye]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

Perception is reality.   If Bitshares delegates are making the appearance that they are trying to be legit goes a long ways towards positive public perception.

 A good example is carbon credits, it appears that big buisness is trying to be enviromentally freindly to the public. But truth be known they dont really care as long as they are protecting the bottom line.

Charity is a good thing, if it is effective.  I do believe carbon credits are like in one way false charity (trying to protect their bottom line) but it is a good thing (maybe).

[eagleeye]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

Very well written post.  How do you plan on participating in discussions with regulators and at what time.  A great idea at the wrong time, is nothing.

I do believe there should be a foundation and the money should either be in some sort of safe diversified investments (mutual funds, stocks, bonds, cash)

[eagleeye]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war. 

[soniq]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

Perception is reality.   If Bitshares delegates are making the appearance that they are trying to be legit goes a long ways towards positive public perception.

 A good example is carbon credits, it appears that big buisness is trying to be enviromentally freindly to the public. But truth be known they dont really care as long as they are protecting the bottom line.

[cryptillionaire]

This is actually the main thing holding me back from creating a delegate - purely because of the way my government might react. Hell.. they jailed a guy for running a proxy server in the uk, what're they going to think of a decentralized bank? : P

Ach, i'll put a vpn on the server so that its location is properly hidden.. i think that's possible eh?

[fuzzy]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem. 

[soniq]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said 

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

[maqifrnswa]

So right now the daily rate is very low?

right now:

"blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": "2.15106 BTSX"

so if you are a 100% delegate, you get 2.15106 BTSX every 16ish minutes. at $0.03/BTSX that means the current pay is:
avg delegate: .84*2.15*6*60*24/101= 155 BTSX/day = $4.63/day
100% payrate delegate = $5.52/day
15% delegate = $0.83/day 

[eagleeye]

"blockchain_accumulated_fees": "260,192.88607 BTSX",
  "blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": "2.15106 BTSX",
And for more details:

Code: [Select]

ID    NAME (* next in line)           APPROVAL       PRODUCED MISSED   RELIABILITY   PAY RATE PAY BALANCE         LAST BLOCK
============================================================================================================================
10206 cny.bts500                      16.85455359 %  3387     30       99.12 %       80 %     2,674.15508 BTSX    373443
14758 bts.coin                        14.79362673 %  2360     11       99.54 %       90 %     950.03947 BTSX      373358
14020 google.helloworld               13.38721224 %  2143     1        99.95 %       80 %     313.85624 BTSX      373450
18771 x.ebit                          12.27658281 %  559      1        99.82 %       80 %     315.55295 BTSX      373442
10207 usd.bts500                      12.08120389 %  3389     25       99.27 %       80 %     2,674.41942 BTSX    373399
10214 eur.bts500                      12.03326994 %  3382     29       99.15 %       80 %     2,662.14955 BTSX    373425
8790  delegate.adam                   11.74809644 %  3126     368      89.47 %       100 %    4,473.86809 BTSX    373309
2151  delegate-alt                    11.63305137 %  2840     73       97.49 %       100 %    1,369.78641 BTSX    373431
18764 now.dacwin                      11.59358993 %  1261     0        100.00 %      100 %    1,903.79477 BTSX    373413
18766 future.dacwin                   11.50148011 %  1251     0        100.00 %      100 %    1,888.83802 BTSX    373424
14757 e.coin                          11.35053374 %  494      7        98.60 %       90 %     771.41764 BTSX      373453
2156  delegate-baozi                  11.08585789 %  3550     36       99.00 %       100 %    638.55987 BTSX      373406
334   chinese                         11.05490832 %  3565     69       98.10 %       80 %     909.65944 BTSX      373432
10173 dpos.crazybit                   10.93704661 %  3301     15       99.55 %       90 %     2,160.90164 BTSX    373444
10243 delegate.bitsuperlab            10.85605587 %  2394     2        99.92 %       100 %    3,268.82911 BTSX    373323
10323 btsx.chinesecommunity           10.85116130 %  3287     123      96.39 %       50 %     194.33625 BTSX      373404
10287 mr.agsexplorer                  10.83899255 %  3239     92       97.24 %       100 %    49.53830 BTSX       373416
9879  delegate.xeroc                  10.76160259 %  3279     131      96.16 %       100 %    899.77057 BTSX      373420
1193  dele-puppy                      10.69383611 %  3410     85       97.57 %       10 %     111.78069 BTSX      373389
129   boombastic                      10.62097325 %  3394     112      96.81 %       100 %    397.49887 BTSX      373434


Thank you very much Sir.

So right now the daily rate is very low?

[maqifrnswa]

Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

[emski]

"blockchain_accumulated_fees": "260,192.88607 BTSX",
  "blockchain_delegate_pay_rate": "2.15106 BTSX",
And for more details:

Code: [Select]

ID    NAME (* next in line)           APPROVAL       PRODUCED MISSED   RELIABILITY   PAY RATE PAY BALANCE         LAST BLOCK
============================================================================================================================
10206 cny.bts500                      16.85455359 %  3387     30       99.12 %       80 %     2,674.15508 BTSX    373443
14758 bts.coin                        14.79362673 %  2360     11       99.54 %       90 %     950.03947 BTSX      373358
14020 google.helloworld               13.38721224 %  2143     1        99.95 %       80 %     313.85624 BTSX      373450
18771 x.ebit                          12.27658281 %  559      1        99.82 %       80 %     315.55295 BTSX      373442
10207 usd.bts500                      12.08120389 %  3389     25       99.27 %       80 %     2,674.41942 BTSX    373399
10214 eur.bts500                      12.03326994 %  3382     29       99.15 %       80 %     2,662.14955 BTSX    373425
8790  delegate.adam                   11.74809644 %  3126     368      89.47 %       100 %    4,473.86809 BTSX    373309
2151  delegate-alt                    11.63305137 %  2840     73       97.49 %       100 %    1,369.78641 BTSX    373431
18764 now.dacwin                      11.59358993 %  1261     0        100.00 %      100 %    1,903.79477 BTSX    373413
18766 future.dacwin                   11.50148011 %  1251     0        100.00 %      100 %    1,888.83802 BTSX    373424
14757 e.coin                          11.35053374 %  494      7        98.60 %       90 %     771.41764 BTSX      373453
2156  delegate-baozi                  11.08585789 %  3550     36       99.00 %       100 %    638.55987 BTSX      373406
334   chinese                         11.05490832 %  3565     69       98.10 %       80 %     909.65944 BTSX      373432
10173 dpos.crazybit                   10.93704661 %  3301     15       99.55 %       90 %     2,160.90164 BTSX    373444
10243 delegate.bitsuperlab            10.85605587 %  2394     2        99.92 %       100 %    3,268.82911 BTSX    373323
10323 btsx.chinesecommunity           10.85116130 %  3287     123      96.39 %       50 %     194.33625 BTSX      373404
10287 mr.agsexplorer                  10.83899255 %  3239     92       97.24 %       100 %    49.53830 BTSX       373416
9879  delegate.xeroc                  10.76160259 %  3279     131      96.16 %       100 %    899.77057 BTSX      373420
1193  dele-puppy                      10.69383611 %  3410     85       97.57 %       10 %     111.78069 BTSX      373389
129   boombastic                      10.62097325 %  3394     112      96.81 %       100 %    397.49887 BTSX      373434


[eagleeye]

Delegate's earnings is visible on the blockchain - type "info" on the command line.
Spending varies but I doubt it is enough to pay expenses (in my case it isn't, on some VPS instances it could be).

I do not have the system installed as I am a technologist but not that competitor literate meaning, I know how long things take because of immense trial and error (developing over 50+ websites and businesses) but I still do not know how to reformat. 

Would you be kind enough and please tell me, it would be much appreciated?

[emski]

Delegate's earnings is visible on the blockchain - type "info" on the command line.
Spending varies but I doubt it is enough to pay expenses (in my case it isn't, on some VPS instances it could be).

[eagleeye]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

I agree with you.  How much is the ecosystem processing (in terms of money) for delegates right now? (profit and loss on a daily basis).  Do we know if the delegates are on this forum?  If so please come out of the woodwork.  Remember NXT watches our forum, we must watch theres.  That is apart of the map of this digital warefare.

Fuznuts may I please have your Skype?  Message me it if you want.

[GaltReport]

I think some kind of public auditing mechanism for delegates should provide enough security.
For example each delegate shares all his transactions with public audit node(s) and when a block is generated each audit node publishes statistics about how many unknown transactions were included and how much the block produced differs from anticipated block (if you know the version of the delegate and its transaction you should be able to predict what will be included in block).
This way the delegate's cheating opportunities will be significantly lower and if that happen everyone will know.
You just need to make sure audit nodes are really public and everyone can become such node connected to any delegate.

Using this you might ignore delegate's identity as long as he does its job properly. (not to mention that in an extremely complex scenario a delegate could be constituted with multiple nodes sharing transactions, each node controlled by different entity and a block is produced only when all of them are in agreement). With such scenario you ignore any single entity in the block creation process...

I agree with this.  I would trust real-time technical/cryptographic audting & transparency solutions.  Some of the people I distrust the most are public figures.  The concept of annonymity and privacy was a big part of bitcoin.  You only have to look at Satoshi Nakamoto himself...whoever he is. 

[emski]

I think some kind of public auditing mechanism for delegates should provide enough security.
For example each delegate shares all his transactions with public audit node(s) and when a block is generated each audit node publishes statistics about how many unknown transactions were included and how much the block produced differs from anticipated block (if you know the version of the delegate and its transaction you should be able to predict what will be included in block).
This way the delegate's cheating opportunities will be significantly lower and if that happen everyone will know.
You just need to make sure audit nodes are really public and everyone can become such node connected to any delegate.

Using this you might ignore delegate's identity as long as he does its job properly. (not to mention that in an extremely complex scenario a delegate could be constituted with multiple nodes sharing transactions, each node controlled by different entity and a block is produced only when all of them are in agreement). With such scenario you ignore any single entity in the block creation process...

[fuzzy]

If that happen delegates will change.
It is possible to have anonymous delegates.

But the chilling effect would keep people from wanting to be delegates...much like the punishment of reporters "chills" the public's overall willingness to adequately uphold the power of the fourth estate (aka media).

As far as anonymous delegates---you don't want that either unless there is still a way to tie reputation to them by some measure without giving away personal information. 

[emski]

If that happen delegates will change.
It is possible to have anonymous delegates.

[fuzzy]

What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.