Author Topic: Delegate Legal Fund  (Read 7452 times)

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Offline eagleeye

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No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?

Free people will never be equal, and equal people will never be free.

I agree with you about a lot of the problems this world faces.  I am not a fan of governments or corporations.  I just want you to realize that when you say taxes.  What you are actually talking about is men with guns stealing peoples property under the threat of kidnapping or death.  That is what taxes are.  If you don't believe me, stop paying yours and see what happens.  You could argue that we must allow men with guns to steal peoples things so they can give them to the poor.  I however would disagree.  I think that theft is always wrong.  Even if you intend to do good with it.  (this is totally ignoring the efficacy of welfare.  Thats an entirely different argument.)

Also.  You are the one that keeps saying we are in a war.  What do you do in a war?  Why do Americans always want to wage wars on things?

I have no wish to fight a war against anyone.

If we do not have taxes?  Who will fund the military to protect us?  (That does not say we need a $600 billion military budget) We will not have regional warlords.  We need a military who believes in the just and proper values.  To protect us, even from ourselves.

Before taxes in America, America was very isolationist due to maybe the Monroe Doctrine.  "a principle of US policy, originated by President James Monroe in 1823, that any intervention by external powers in the politics of the Americas is a potentially hostile act against the US."  We wanted to be left alone.

We did not go to wars much but the system was unstable.  There were continous economic crises, up and down, up and down, much like the early stages of bitshares.  A lack of taxes was early stage.

We need government or else we will go back to kings, which the people of the world will not do, no matter how much money one has the people will not relent.

I do believe in Libertarian policies however, a Libertarian, is a liberal, I am not saying a Libertarian is a Democrat.

Offline puppies

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No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?

Free people will never be equal, and equal people will never be free.

I agree with you about a lot of the problems this world faces.  I am not a fan of governments or corporations.  I just want you to realize that when you say taxes.  What you are actually talking about is men with guns stealing peoples property under the threat of kidnapping or death.  That is what taxes are.  If you don't believe me, stop paying yours and see what happens.  You could argue that we must allow men with guns to steal peoples things so they can give them to the poor.  I however would disagree.  I think that theft is always wrong.  Even if you intend to do good with it.  (this is totally ignoring the efficacy of welfare.  Thats an entirely different argument.)

Also.  You are the one that keeps saying we are in a war.  What do you do in a war?  Why do Americans always want to wage wars on things?

I have no wish to fight a war against anyone.
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Offline eagleeye

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.
I like Wikipedias definition of taxes
Quote
A tax (from the Latin taxo; "rate") is a financial charge or other levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay, or evasion of or resistance to collection, is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct or indirect taxes and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent.

While poverty can be a terrible thing.  If your solution involves men with guns stealing peoples property under threat of kidnapping or death, then I cannot support it.  You are essentially saying that theft is okay, as long as you intend to do good with it.  I believe that the initiation of violence or the threat of violence for any reason other than self defense is immoral. 

This is disruptive technology.  Many individuals will find themselves freed from unproductive use of their abilities, as more productive means become available.  This will allow them to pursue more productive uses of their assets.  This will no doubt be unpleasant for some.  Some of them may even attempt to fight this progress.  They will probably find like minded simpletons in places of power throughout the worlds governments. 

This is not a war, and the only enemies I can see are those that believe they have the right to use violence against people engaged in peaceful commerce.  I do not propose that we fight them.  I propose that we continue to work to make them and their disgusting world view irrelevant.  That is ultimately what this technology makes possible.

No it should not happen that people steal property under threat of kidnapping or death.  However, everyone should have a house.  Everyone should be almost free to pursuit what they want to do.  We can not have a few people own most of the system or 90% of the system.  We must spread around the wealth and that is why Norway having lots of resources (much like United States) but it has an extremely high absolute standard of living.  It has low suicide rates, it has a high general of happeniness and cohesion.  We must not have the Wal-Mart family who only helps themselves and empoverishes the rest of 3 million people.  Costco will be bigger than Wal-Mart one day, and it pays its employs $18 - $20 dollars an hour, a middle class or almost middle class wage.

Fight who? Who are you talking about?



Offline puppies

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.
I like Wikipedias definition of taxes
Quote
A tax (from the Latin taxo; "rate") is a financial charge or other levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay, or evasion of or resistance to collection, is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct or indirect taxes and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent.

While poverty can be a terrible thing.  If your solution involves men with guns stealing peoples property under threat of kidnapping or death, then I cannot support it.  You are essentially saying that theft is okay, as long as you intend to do good with it.  I believe that the initiation of violence or the threat of violence for any reason other than self defense is immoral. 

This is disruptive technology.  Many individuals will find themselves freed from unproductive use of their abilities, as more productive means become available.  This will allow them to pursue more productive uses of their assets.  This will no doubt be unpleasant for some.  Some of them may even attempt to fight this progress.  They will probably find like minded simpletons in places of power throughout the worlds governments. 

This is not a war, and the only enemies I can see are those that believe they have the right to use violence against people engaged in peaceful commerce.  I do not propose that we fight them.  I propose that we continue to work to make them and their disgusting world view irrelevant.  That is ultimately what this technology makes possible. 
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Offline eagleeye

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What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

What do you mean CryptoTerrorists?  Do you believe because we will be putting people out of jobs?  Or that a hacker will hack the system?  Or that the NSA will hack the system because they have corrupted PGP (Pretty good programming encryption) and cause a false flag?  I have PGP from 30 years ago that the NSA does not have corrupted from a scientist.  It is on CD.

Offline emski

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There is no need to be "friends" with military, government or any entity.
BitsharesX is decentralised system. If needed each single delegate will decentralize => removing the need for exposing identity or trust.
Why should I trust a delegate when even that job can be securely decentralized ?

Offline eagleeye

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I don't think NYSE/NASDAQ are our enemies. The NASDAQ will not be replaced by Bitshares X. It will be supplemented but not replaced because Bitshares X is like a parallel virtual market.

We cannot issue legal securities on Bitshares X so what does NASDAQ have to worry about?

As far as putting people out of work? Automation is going to put hundreds of millions of people out of work in the decades ahead. Does that mean the entire IT industry is the enemy to the service and other industries?

When you look at the big picture you see that DACs are just part of the larger trend toward automation. If technological unemployment is a result then maybe people can work for DACs and there can be employment in these new industries we are trying to create. Old industries have to fall sometimes so that the economy can survive.

Bitshares could in the future gain the legal right to supplement the NASDAQ meaning they will know this and they will think of us as the enemies and try to crush us.

I agree automation will put people out of work and automation is technology therefore no one should fear technology.  Do not take what I am going to say lightly.  If you believe this and I believe this (that technology is NOT our enemy) then cryptocurrencies has nothing to fear, correct?  But we still fear (And we should till we have the friends to back us up militarily, law enforcement, lawyers and politically).  Once we do not have anything to fear then everything is fine HOWEVER do not believe we can disrupt other countries unless in specific targeted fashions that benefit them as a whole rather than letting ISIS and Assad in Syria now fight when a year ago it was US and ISIS against Assad in Syria. 

Offline luckybit

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war.

I don't think NYSE/NASDAQ are our enemies. The NASDAQ will not be replaced by Bitshares X. It will be supplemented but not replaced because Bitshares X is like a parallel virtual market.

We cannot issue legal securities on Bitshares X so what does NASDAQ have to worry about?

As far as putting people out of work? Automation is going to put hundreds of millions of people out of work in the decades ahead. Does that mean the entire IT industry is the enemy to the service and other industries?

When you look at the big picture you see that DACs are just part of the larger trend toward automation. If technological unemployment is a result then maybe people can work for DACs and there can be employment in these new industries we are trying to create. Old industries have to fall sometimes so that the economy can survive.

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Offline eagleeye

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What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

Suppose you do have a legal fund? Delegates may also need friendly relationships with military and law enforcement to protect them from being extorted by the underworld.

I don't see how a legal fund will solve all the kinds of problems which could await delegates.

I think legal problems are somewhat easy compared to the other risks.

We will need friendly relationships with the military and law enforcement.

Offline luckybit

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What if all Delegates in the BitShares Ecosystem were to agree on a few absolutely imperative collaborative efforts in hopes of protecting each other in the case of legal entanglements with institutions that (although showing they do not deserve it) wish to have ultimate control over all human interaction?  They would do this through their well established "legal" pathways and regulations.  We can bet that when the system starts to really falter that crypto (not corruption of the current leadership) will be blamed--CryptoTerrorist is a term that will likely become common place as the powers that be try to push the buck onto those who are trying to fix the problems they created. 

With that said, Delegates will be the first place for these institutions to attack...So wouldn't it be worth it for all delegates to sign on to give a small % of their tx fees to a fund for legal fees in the case that any delegate is so labeled and embroiled in mounds of legal consequence?

We could even ask users if they would like to increase their tx fees by a slight amount to ensure that the fund becomes robust as quickly as possible.  Just a thought--please consider and give opinions below.

Suppose you do have a legal fund? Delegates may also need friendly relationships with military and law enforcement to protect them from being extorted by the underworld.

I don't see how a legal fund will solve all the kinds of problems which could await delegates.

I think legal problems are somewhat easy compared to the other risks.
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Offline eagleeye

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

Perception is reality.   If Bitshares delegates are making the appearance that they are trying to be legit goes a long ways towards positive public perception.

 A good example is carbon credits, it appears that big buisness is trying to be enviromentally freindly to the public. But truth be known they dont really care as long as they are protecting the bottom line.

Charity is a good thing, if it is effective.  I do believe carbon credits are like in one way false charity (trying to protect their bottom line) but it is a good thing (maybe).

Offline eagleeye

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

Very well written post.  How do you plan on participating in discussions with regulators and at what time.  A great idea at the wrong time, is nothing.

I do believe there should be a foundation and the money should either be in some sort of safe diversified investments (mutual funds, stocks, bonds, cash)

Offline eagleeye

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

You have to understand taxes are good, America in itself has a large part of the population that is in poverty.  It is the US government that has the wrong priorities ($600 billion US a year in military spending, while only $6 - $30 billion a year in food stamps, MAYBE (MAYBE I am wrong in how it should be set up)).

What im getting at is some taxes is good like Canada with only 20% and (I know Russia is our enemy at the moment) but Russia at 10 - 15% taxes (I believe).

We need to get a large part of the population out of poverty but military spending and an imperialistic mentality (in terms of US government foreign policy) will not help our population.

You must realize (im sorry if I say that too much) but this is a very disruptive technology.  We could put lots of people out of work (bank tellers, people that work for NYSE, NASDAQ) so we do have enemies and this is a war. 

Offline soniq

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Rather than being defensive and assuming the government will go after delegates, I think a better solution would be for delegates to be proactive and participate in discussions with regulators. My strategy is to be 100% legit all the time, I'm not going to hide and hope my anonymity can protect me (it can't). At the same time, I don't see any clear regulatory problems at the moment, but I plan on participating in discussions with regulators and complying with whatever comes up as the proper way to legitimize/protect consumers/follow the law (whatever someone wants to call it). As of now, BTSX and BitUSD are just crypto currencires and as such I'm following the proper tax laws and FINCEN guidance as any miner of cryptocurrencies should.

If bitsharesx really takes off, delegates (and users) may want to get together and figure out a centralized approach to handling regulation - sort of like the bitcoin foundation does for bitcoin.

well said  +5%

funds could be pooled to create a lobby group to proactively work with regulators

100% "legit" means that the interests who are currently employing treasonous measures against the public will gain more control over the ecosystem.  The only reason, for instance, that the IRS still exists and forces "taxes" (read theft) on citizens is because there have not been enough people who got pissed off about the IRS' Illegal Operations to change the status quo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azynljXxbC0). 

Being "legit" is fine...but it is a whole other thing to comply with illegal requirements simply out of fear that we will be imprisoned or otherwise penalized.  This simply lends to the public's sense of legitimacy over these types of institutions...which most can agree, are illegal (meaning those working for them should be the ones penalized!). 

This is precisely why I am thinking it is important to have a legal team there and ready in the instances that legal cases present themselves as opportunities to set precedents favorable to our ecosystem.

Perception is reality.   If Bitshares delegates are making the appearance that they are trying to be legit goes a long ways towards positive public perception.

 A good example is carbon credits, it appears that big buisness is trying to be enviromentally freindly to the public. But truth be known they dont really care as long as they are protecting the bottom line.
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Offline cryptillionaire

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This is actually the main thing holding me back from creating a delegate - purely because of the way my government might react. Hell.. they jailed a guy for running a proxy server in the uk, what're they going to think of a decentralized bank? : P

Ach, i'll put a vpn on the server so that its location is properly hidden.. i think that's possible eh?