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Offline xeroc

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Fee Flow / Yield Info Graphic
« on: September 09, 2014, 05:38:12 PM »

I wanted to quickly sketch sth, that shows the fee flow and bitAsset yield so we can have a graphic to use when convincing people.
Here's my second quick sketch:




I am sure I am missing some things ... or have some misunderstanding ..


sources (inkscape,svg): https://tmp.xeroc.org/feeflow.svg


V2: http://i.imgur.com/a6mOGWl.png
V3: http://i.imgur.com/iBNbCqS.png
V4: http://i.imgur.com/ORb1t3M.png
V5: http://i.imgur.com/PxwAgRa.png
V6: http://i.imgur.com/mrNPgXc.png
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 04:19:51 PM by xeroc »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 05:41:58 PM »
Show bid ask overlap going to rainy day fund
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Offline arhag

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 05:46:10 PM »
Is the 5% fee on margin calls on BTSX or is it extracted as the BitAsset? Also, wouldn't the transaction fees on the market orders be sometimes BTSX and sometimes BitAsset? Finally, is the bid ask overlap always extracted as a BitAsset and never as BTSX?

Really it seems like there is no reason the network couldn't exchange between BTSX fees and BitAsset fees as desired. After all there is a decentralized exchange right there. So I guess my question is how much of the potential value available should be given to BitAsset holders vs BTSX holders?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 05:52:00 PM »

Is the 5% fee on margin calls on BTSX or is it extracted as the BitAsset? Also, wouldn't the transaction fees on the market orders be sometimes BTSX and sometimes BitAsset? Finally, is the bid ask overlap always extracted as a BitAsset and never as BTSX?

Really it seems like there is no reason the network couldn't exchange between BTSX fees and BitAsset fees as desired. After all there is a decentralized exchange right there. So I guess my question is how much of the potential value available should be given to BitAsset holders vs BTSX holders?

Margin call fee is in btsx.
Market fees are bitassets
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning. 


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Offline arhag

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning.

I get that but shouldn't BTSX stakeholders have a way of defining how much interest they want to give to each particular BitAsset? Interest given to a BitAsset is money not given to the stakeholders. For some BitAssets this makes a lot of sense in the initial stages. I am perfectly fine giving up to 5% interest to BitUSD for example (anything more than that I feel would be more useful given back to the stakeholders). However, I don't care much about giving high interest on BitBTC for example. The reason is because making BitUSD more attractive can help marketing to new users and thus increase adoption of BitShares X and thus increase value in BTSX. Providing additional value to BitBTC on the other hand seems counterproductive to our interests.

So basically, I would like to see what I proposed in the second paragraph of this post: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8396.msg109865#msg109865.


Offline Method-X

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »
Should we start calling the "rainy day fund" the "rewards fund"?

Offline xeroc

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 06:10:46 PM »
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning.

I get that but shouldn't BTSX stakeholders have a way of defining how much interest they want to give to each particular BitAsset? Interest given to a BitAsset is money not given to the stakeholders. For some BitAssets this makes a lot of sense in the initial stages. I am perfectly fine giving up to 5% interest to BitUSD for example (anything more than that I feel would be more useful given back to the stakeholders). However, I don't care much about giving high interest on BitBTC for example. The reason is because making BitUSD more attractive can help marketing to new users and thus increase adoption of BitShares X and thus increase value in BTSX. Providing additional value to BitBTC on the other hand seems counterproductive to our interests.

So basically, I would like to see what I proposed in the second paragraph of this post: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8396.msg109865#msg109865.
I dont really understand yet .. How is the btsx shareholder supposed to pay 'interest' for the bitAsset holder? have I missed sth?
please enlighten me!
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 06:11:31 PM »
Should we start calling the "rainy day fund" the "rewards fund"?
*confirmed*
"rainy day fund" sucks ..

but I am unaware of a community consensus about the new name
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Offline onceuponatime

Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 06:13:51 PM »
Should we start calling the "rainy day fund" the "rewards fund"?
*confirmed*
"rainy day fund" sucks ..

but I am unaware of a community consensus about the new name

Rewards Fund is good.

Online Shentist

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 06:14:10 PM »
rainy day funds - is gone!

this funds are paid as yield/interest in advance to the bitAsset holders.

with the trading pattern from the last days bytemaster expects till 10% a year. so it will be a game changer, because now you can hold bitUSD and get paid a interest a year. it will be implemented tomorrow.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8520.0

Offline arhag

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 06:16:16 PM »
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning.

I get that but shouldn't BTSX stakeholders have a way of defining how much interest they want to give to each particular BitAsset? Interest given to a BitAsset is money not given to the stakeholders. For some BitAssets this makes a lot of sense in the initial stages. I am perfectly fine giving up to 5% interest to BitUSD for example (anything more than that I feel would be more useful given back to the stakeholders). However, I don't care much about giving high interest on BitBTC for example. The reason is because making BitUSD more attractive can help marketing to new users and thus increase adoption of BitShares X and thus increase value in BTSX. Providing additional value to BitBTC on the other hand seems counterproductive to our interests.

So basically, I would like to see what I proposed in the second paragraph of this post: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8396.msg109865#msg109865.
I dont really understand yet .. How is the btsx shareholder supposed to pay 'interest' for the bitAsset holder? have I missed sth?
please enlighten me!

The yield on BitAssets is coming from the various fees the network collects. This is a value transfer from the participants paying the fees to the network (it doesn't really matter what it is denominated in). This value has three places it can go: the BitAsset holders, the BTSX holders, and the delegates. I am saying that we would be better off if we (the shareholders) could define how much value goes to which.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 06:21:56 PM »
Margin call fee is in btsx.
Market fees are bitassets
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning.
*fixed*

Show bid ask overlap going to rainy day fund
*fixed*
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2014, 06:23:17 PM »
The yield on BitAssets is coming from the various fees the network collects. This is a value transfer from the participants paying the fees to the network (it doesn't really matter what it is denominated in). This value has three places it can go: the BitAsset holders, the BTSX holders, and the delegates. I am saying that we would be better off if we (the shareholders) could define how much value goes to which.
ok .. got it .. thx
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 06:28:47 PM »
If my understanding is correct, paying fees other than short fees out as interest should break the peg.  In an uncertain market in which demand due assets matches demand to short, the peg should work. If everyone wants to short, that breaks the peg, which is why we had to use the price feeds.  Allowing the shorts to pay the longs interest should recreate the balanced/uncertain market in which the peg works, but providing additional interest from other fees to asset holders would then break the peg again by increasing demand for assets.

Offline arhag

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Re: Fee Flow / Yield Infor Graphic
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 06:32:17 PM »
Margin call fee is in btsx.
Market fees are bitassets
Btsx holder benefits more paying interest on bit assets than from burning.
*fixed*

You still have the 5% fee on short orders (I assume you mean to say 5% fee on margin calls) going to the rewards fund. According to bytemaster's response, it should be going to the delegate's box instead.

 

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