Author Topic: 5% annual fee. What is the point?  (Read 7472 times)

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Offline Riverhead

Perhaps we can provide an exemption for multisig accounts.

What about the ability to flag an account as cold storage but as soon as it does a transaction the flag drops and the clock starts running.  Once a cold storage account does a transaction it's not cold storage anymore.


The biggest downside to this, obviously, is that if cold storage is lost it's gone forever.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 06:07:16 pm by Riverhead »

Offline bytemaster

Perhaps we can provide an exemption for multisig accounts.
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Offline Riverhead

Bitmarket - do NOT shut the hell up. You are raising some very valid points and this is all part of the discussion of an evolving product/protocol.

While I have my views they are just mine and they are not cast in stone.

Offline gamey

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It might be that 5% inactivity has too much of a marketing cost.  It prevents people from just sitting on their BTSX which is usually desirable to other holders.
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Offline santaclause102

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Reset all votes that are older than 1 year?

Offline gamey

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There are tons of things not implemented.  I think this is pretty low on the list.

As has been pointed out by Dan, holding data on the blockchain has a cost.  It isn't necessarily fair that everyone who has full client has to maintain data from others indefinitely without the owner of the data paying the network anything.

I'll add this to the wiki real quick.

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Offline bitmarket

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So I was a victim of a substantial bitcoin heist.  My now hold my bitcoin in mutlisig cold storage paper wallets in several continents in several private vaults.

To achieve the same level of security without paying this fee, I would have to fly all over the world ever year, so yeah refreshing cold wallets every year is annoying as hell. For serious corporate investors this would absolutely be a huge problem.

Additionally I want people to put their btsx in cold storage.   Its helps drive the price up as they are not as quick to sell.

Further it seems quite rude.  Imagine if Apple or Amazon told shareholders that if they did not trade their shares every year, they would slugged with a 5% tax.  That would turn off people using it as a retirement investment.

It is pretty rude and disincentivises desirable behavior, however, if it is possible that "lost coins" will get "stuck" voting for a delegate, then I guess it is possible end up with an undesirable delegate.

If this is the real reason, then I can think of a way around it, but I think its pretty rude to leave it in there.

Someone mentioned it is not implemented though... did I read that right... it is not even part of the protocol anymore.

In that case, I will shut the hell up and move on with my life.
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Offline luckybit

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Also to burn lost coins

Burning lost coins could be a problem though so I see his point. Therefore Bitshares X wouldn't be good for long long term store of value such as 20 years because of this fee.

The vast majority of people will never bump up against or feel this fee but I could imagine that it could be a possible scenario where someone could lose 100% of their holdings because they lost access to their private keys for years.

If you think you're going to not be able to access your private key for years then maybe you'll have to put your Bitshares wealth somewhere else. Bitshares X is primarily an exchange but there will be other DACs and some of them don't have to have the 5% fee.
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Offline Riverhead

The coins are not burnt. They are returned to supply. This is for the purpose that gamey's link mentions but also as a lost coin and dust collector. For private keys that are lost for whatever reason (too small balance to move aka dust, death of key holder, damaged hardware, forgotten passwords, etc.). To prevent this fee any transaction will do. For cold storage create a new cold wallet and transfer funds to it. Not a huge burden for an annual event.

In my opinion the benefits to the coin and network as a whole far out weigh the burden of annual cold storage refreshes.

Offline puppies

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Thanks gamey.  In response I would love a more technical analysis of how blockchain pruning works.
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Offline gamey

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I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline puppies

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As far as I recall.  It was originally a part of tapos and was designed to prevent the ability to create too many coin days destroyed in regards to your stake.  I'm not exactly sure what the rationale for keeping it in these dpos days is.  I think the fact that it isn't yet implemented is proof that it isn't as important to Dpos as it was to tapos.   I would love to get a technical analysis on why it is still needed.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 06:31:17 am by puppies »
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Offline joele

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Also to burn lost coins

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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DPOS delegates maintain the stability of whole system, so stakeholder contribute to the system by voting for delegates, I think this is the point.
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Offline Shentist

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