How committed is the community to bitsharesX as opposed to the next "DAC"?

[tonyk]

1st You really do not want to hear my comments regarding those ecumenist saying inflation is good... and yes I am fully aware of their existence.

2nd bitBasket- why not, nothing is preventing us of doing it... till then we have bitGold, though!

[fussyhands]

read the paper!

Kind of long, but you will learn stuff that will serve you for life!

OK I read the paper.  It makes some sense.  I think many people over estimate the importance of a perfectly stable currency, compared to, say USD, which is slightly but predictably inflationary.  I don't think perfect stability will change very much.  (Indeed, as I'm sure you are aware, there are many economist who believe that mild but predictable inflation leads to better economic growth because it counteracts wage rigidity.) But compared to the currencies of failed states, or to Bitcoin, either USD stability or perfect stability would be a huge improvement in some respects.  On the other hand, I think much of Bitcoin's appeal is the possibility of making huge returns.  I think that is why a lot of people are invested in it, and why it is hovering around $400 instead of something that reflects its current transactional utility (i.e. something much much less, perhaps a couple dollars).

At any rate reading the paper did help me understand the vision of Bitshares X a little better.  If Bitshares BitAssets system stands the test of time it will give you the best of both worlds.  You can peg your money to USD or a commodity basket, or you can go on the wild ride and keep it as BTSX.  Personally, I don't see any reason to be an early adopter, and take all the risk of catastrophic system failure that that entails, if you are just going to peg your money to USD.  Might as well hold onto real USD in that case.  But down the road, if the system has shown itself to be robust, that will be a great feature.

And it makes Bitshares X the first cryptocurrency system that I know of that allows you to instantly send "USD" through a meaningfully decentralized network ("meaningfully decentralized" is meant to exclude the likes of Ripple).  That seems like a pretty big deal.

Are there plans to make a BitBasket that will be pegged to the basket of commodities used to calculate the CPI?

[Agent86]

I've read most of the wiki and watched a couple videos.  Everybody who is new to BitShares X seems to find it confusing.  It's not just me.  These things aren't clearly spelled out on the wiki as far as I could see.

fussyhands, firstly welcome!  I think you are asking the right questions.  I think the questions you are asking are important and not easily found in the wiki (the wiki is far from perfect).

In regard to your concerns...  First BTSX isn't just a little better than Bitcoin; it's orders of magnitude and solves fatal flaws.  Bitcoin can't stay at the top given the competition.  As far as being diluted, if you bought into BTC very early than you will have been diluted a lot by all the mining over the years but would have still made a killing.

As a community, we are all invested in BTSX and/or PTS.  We are working hard to make our investments pay off.  My advice is to stay informed.  There is no substitute for due diligence and in the long run shareholders of a DAC will be responsible for their own success.  Don't expect any 100% guarantees without doing your homework, staying informed, and advocating for yourself and fellow stakeholders.  Also find out how you can contribute and what you bring to the table because I believe more and more these systems are being tweaked so that contribution can be recognized and rewarded.

[fuzzy]

read the paper!

Kind of long, but you will learn stuff that will serve you for life!

Agreed

[tonyk]

read the paper!

Kind of long, but you will learn stuff that will serve you for life!

[fussyhands]

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/What_is_BitShares%3F

and all the links from there...

Yup.  Read those.  I don't see answers to my questions there.

http://107.170.163.35/index.php/Distributed_Autonomous_Companies
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/The_History_of_BitShares
These are links in the article aren't they?

Also read this:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2425270

It is from independent (not connected to Bitshares) author. You might learn something that you clearly do not get, judging by your questions....

I'll have to give the ssrn paper a read later.

On the wiki, I think you're referring to this:

The concept of BitShares is based on the notion that the units issued by Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrency systems more intuitively resemble shares in startups with small capitalizations than legal tender of sovereign nations. Carrying the company analogy a bit further, the goal of maximizing the 'equity-value-per-share' ratio replaces the goal of maintaining a constant 'purchasing-power-per-unit' ratio in a currency system. With a currency, the general tendency is to strive for a stable price-per-stuff ratio. Shares, on the other hand, are expected to pay profits in shares, appreciate in value, or both. When we think of a DAC as a company, rather than as a mint, the idea of units that increase in value comes more naturally. In this way, the cryptocurrency acts as a medium of exchange and store of value, but not as a unit of account or measure of value... just like transferable shares in an investment portfolio... rather like buying goods and services with shares from one's investment portfolio.

I get that it's a useful analogy to think if a cryptocurrency as an equity rather than as currency, especially in the early stages where it has tremendous growth potential and tremendous risk and thus its value fluctuates wildly.  But that doesn't mean that it isn't actually currency.  Especially in the long run, if it is very successful, it's value might even stabilize more than USD stability, in which case it may be used almost entirely as a currency, and only as an equity to a very limited degree.  (At that point it's value would be more characteristic of a bond than of an equity, providing a very consistent modest return.  Or no return at all.  Stake holders might prefer a network with the lowest possible transaction fees necessary to support the network and no dividends.)

[GaltReport]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Network effect is the #1 driver for long term growth.  Achieving network effect for BTSX holders is my #1 goal.

However, everyone who has a stake in BTSX got it on equal footing by mining/buying/etc with their own funds.   I do not expect any individual including myself to fund development out of their own pocket so that everyone else can benefit from it.   BTSX has a development fund of ~100M BTSX and as long as we can grow the value of BTSX faster than we spend it the network can thrive.

 

I must admit that you do a great job thinking through and trying to aligning incentives for everyone in the right direction.

[tonyk]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Are you one of those excessive writers (as opposed to dedicated readers)? Not trying to be rude but, can you first read the wiki or listen to some videos?

I've read most of the wiki and watched a couple videos.  Everybody who is new to BitShares X seems to find it confusing.  It's not just me.  These things aren't clearly spelled out on the wiki as far as I could see.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/What_is_BitShares%3F

and all the links from there...

Yup.  Read those.  I don't see answers to my questions there.

http://107.170.163.35/index.php/Distributed_Autonomous_Companies
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/The_History_of_BitShares
These are links in the article aren't they?

Also read this:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2425270

It is from independent (not connected to Bitshares) author. You might learn something that you clearly do not get, judging by your questions....

[Mysto]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

You could use BTSX as a currency but one of the reasons I think people won't especially in the beginning is high volatility. In a couple of minutes it could gain 10% and then lose it again. Where as if you used bitGLD or bitSLV there isn't much fluctuation.

[fussyhands]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Are you one of those excessive writers (as opposed to dedicated readers)? Not trying to be rude but, can you first read the wiki or listen to some videos?

I've read most of the wiki and watched a couple videos.  Everybody who is new to BitShares X seems to find it confusing.  It's not just me.  These things aren't clearly spelled out on the wiki as far as I could see.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/What_is_BitShares%3F

and all the links from there...

Yup.  Read those.  I don't see answers to my questions there.

[tonyk]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Are you one of those excessive writers (as opposed to dedicated readers)? Not trying to be rude but, can you first read the wiki or listen to some videos?

I've read most of the wiki and watched a couple videos.  Everybody who is new to BitShares X seems to find it confusing.  It's not just me.  These things aren't clearly spelled out on the wiki as far as I could see.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/What_is_BitShares%3F

and all the links from there...

[xeroc]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Network effect is the #1 driver for long term growth.  Achieving network effect for BTSX holders is my #1 goal.

However, everyone who has a stake in BTSX got it on equal footing by mining/buying/etc with their own funds.   I do not expect any individual including myself to fund development out of their own pocket so that everyone else can benefit from it.   BTSX has a development fund of ~100M BTSX and as long as we can grow the value of BTSX faster than we spend it the network can thrive.

Do we have a plan on which projects get funded and which do not? current example is the development of http://www.ripplecharts.com/ for btsx by svk (who also built bitsharesblocks.com -  and may receive fund support, doesn't he?)

[fussyhands]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Are you one of those excessive writers (as opposed to dedicated readers)? Not trying to be rude but, can you first read the wiki or listen to some videos?

I've read most of the wiki and watched a couple videos.  Everybody who is new to BitShares X seems to find it confusing.  It's not just me.  These things aren't clearly spelled out on the wiki as far as I could see.

[tonyk]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Are you one of those excessive writers (as opposed to dedicated readers)? Not trying to be rude but, can you first read the wiki or listen to some videos?

[Chuckone]

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

The best analogy to describe BTSX using traditional financial world terms would be "equity". Not currency. You own a part of a DAC, which is an entity that generates revenues, which are redistributed to the "equity" owners through the burning rate.