Author Topic: [RESOLVED] Shorting the new way 'How To'; Why it is better - comming soon  (Read 4184 times)

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Offline mf-tzo

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You are right...Sorry...I am getting confused all the time, when I flip the market something is getting flipped in my head as well..

Offline bytemaster

Thank you BM.

What I don't understand is that there is buy bitusd for 500 bitusd @ 28.56. The same time there are the below short sell bitusd orders:

10.0000 @   28.1088   
10.00 @   28.10   
8.00   @ 25.00   
5.00   @ 2.00   
1.00   @ 0.0027   

Why the above orders are not actioned and are still shown as outstanding?

Those prices are blocked by rule #1...

1) There is someone willing to buy BitUSD at the price feed or at your price limit if your limit is higher than the feed (BSTX per USD) or lower than the feed (USD per BTSX).
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Offline bytemaster

>> blockchain_market_order_book USD BTSX

Code: [Select]
                  BIDS (* Short)                                        |                                   ASKS                                 
TOTAL                     QUANTITY                                     PRICE | PRICE                                        QUANTITY                     TOTAL   COLLATERAL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3,001.2000 USD            90,966.37200 BTSX               0.032992411745 USD | 0.035014005602 USD                  14,280.00000 BTSX              499.9999 USD
135.0000 USD              4,104.00000 BTSX                0.032894736842 USD | 0.035075412136 USD                   8,553.00000 BTSX              300.0000 USD
100.0000 USD              3,049.99999 BTSX                0.032786885246 USD | 0.035087719298 USD                  14,250.00000 BTSX              499.9999 USD
74,722.6588 USD           2,280,767.17568 BTSX            0.032762072164 USD*| 0.035161744023 USD                  14,220.00000 BTSX              499.9999 USD

Looks like there are not matches there...
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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Thank you BM.

What I don't understand is that there is buy bitusd for 500 bitusd @ 28.56. The same time there are the below short sell bitusd orders:

10.0000 @   28.1088   
10.00 @   28.10   
8.00   @ 25.00   
5.00   @ 2.00   
1.00   @ 0.0027   

Why the above orders are not actioned and are still shown as outstanding?

Offline bytemaster

Short orders can only get filled under these conditions:

1) There is someone willing to buy BitUSD at the price feed or at your price limit if your limit is higher than the feed (BSTX per USD) or lower than the feed (USD per BTSX). 
2) Your short order is the highest collateral ratio order
3) Your price limit is lower than the feed  (BTSX per USD)  or higher than the feed (USD per BTSX) or you didn't specify a price limit.
4) You have enough collateral to provide 2x backing at the trade price.
5) The market engine is working as it is supposed to...


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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current max is 71.00 BTSX/bitUSD....

This is what confuses me... Why put an order @ 71 if your short position will be actioned only @ price feed of 30.5479? What is the point to have in place such an order?

Even if I put a short order @ 28 it won't get filled..

Quote
Anyone that fully understands BTS is busy making it great. There's a shortage of experts with idle time.
A beautiful thing, really, though sometimes frustrating for the rest of us!

"If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry." -satoshi

"Always believed in BTSX and always will believe. No need to convince me of anything just trying to understand a bit more"-mf-tzo

Offline tonyk

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Something to consider though in your explanations... I understand now (or at least I think I understand) that short orders are matched (no matter price I put) only at the price feed and are matched by collateral order. As far as I understand people having in place more collateral at stake have a priority in shorting..

If I understand the above correctly the question is: How do I now what collateral others are putting at stake so I could compete to overtake them by adding more collateral in my short position?

Specifically, I see that the price feed is 30.5479 for 2,282,603 BTSX = $74,722.1609.
Is there a way to know the orders that make up the 2,282,603 collateral? I mean how do I know if this is 1 person or 1,000 people's collateral?


Go down the GUI (the window of the BTSX client that is) you will see .

"Short Sell BitUSD Orders" and the collateral other shorts are willing to put

current max is 71.00 BTSX/bitUSD....



Anyone that fully understands BTS is busy making it great. There's a shortage of experts with idle time.
A beautiful thing, really, though sometimes frustrating for the rest of us!

"If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry." -satoshi

Great quote. Also I get it (for the most part), so  great to play BM 4 years ago  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:02:15 pm by dat peg doe »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline roadscape

Anyone that fully understands BTS is busy making it great. There's a shortage of experts with idle time.
A beautiful thing, really, though sometimes frustrating for the rest of us!

"If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry." -satoshi
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline mf-tzo

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Something to consider though in your explanations... I understand now (or at least I think I understand) that short orders are matched (no matter price I put) only at the price feed and are matched by collateral order. As far as I understand people having in place more collateral at stake have a priority in shorting..

If I understand the above correctly the question is: How do I now what collateral others are putting at stake so I could compete to overtake them by adding more collateral in my short position?

Specifically, I see that the price feed is 30.5479 for 2,282,603 BTSX = $74,722.1609.
Is there a way to know the orders that make up the 2,282,603 collateral? I mean how do I know if this is 1 person or 1,000 people's collateral?
 

Offline mf-tzo

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I am working with GUI team to provide help bubbles on each field.

That is good enough for me for now...thanks!

Offline bytemaster

Well...Over the past week I have been trying to short bitusd and all the answers I have received had nothing to do with the real reason.

Only dat peg doe in here showed me just the relevant post that BM explained it. I am still only 20% sure sure I understand it.

MeTHoDX even posted on stupid questions thread some questions which are not stupid but if not answered will create even more confusion..

Now I will continue post my questions and hopefully things will get more clear day by day by day...But if BM or someone 100% familiar with the GUI just explains in a thread exactly how short works, what all the fields mean, how can one see in what order his collateral is vs. to others try to short so we get an estimation what orders we have to compete against, give specific numerical examples everyone will feel more comfortably with all that and we can finally move on...

I am working with GUI team to provide help bubbles on each field.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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Well...Over the past week I have been trying to short bitusd and all the answers I have received had nothing to do with the real reason.

Only dat peg doe in here showed me just the relevant post that BM explained it. I am still only 20% sure sure I understand it.

MeTHoDX even posted on stupid questions thread some questions which are not stupid but if not answered will create even more confusion..

Now I will continue post my questions and hopefully things will get more clear day by day by day...But if BM or someone 100% familiar with the GUI just explains in a thread exactly how short works, what all the fields mean, how can one see in what order his collateral is vs. to others try to short so we get an estimation what orders we have to compete against, give specific numerical examples everyone will feel more comfortably with all that and we can finally move on...
 

Offline Method-X

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Children need rules, adults can be free.

Offline tonyk

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Congratulations on the new market mechanics A86. The peg is tracking ALL assets beautifully.

Give me a break... some markets did not even had short orders 2 hours ago...





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsgcXZzu6io

noun: sway
1.
a rhythmical movement from side to side.
"the easy sway of her hips"

synonyms: swing, roll, shake, oscillation, undulation
"the sway of her hips"

2.
rule; control.
"the part of the continent under Russia's sway"

synonyms: clout, influence, power, weight, authority, control
"his opinions have a lot of sway"

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline oldman

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Quote from: Agent86
The market rules are not meant only for bot trading, getting rid of the prioritization by fee in favor of prioritization by collateral just made it less costly to trade on deviations/inefficiencies in the market so you may see more bot activity.

Congratulations on the new market mechanics A86. The peg is tracking ALL assets beautifully.

Seconded, well done.