Author Topic: How to profit from Music DAC Snapshot  (Read 5981 times)

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Offline BitTitan

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Dang..didn't realize how elegant this ecosystem is.  So you have so many places for price discovery...

I haven't seen anything like this.  Heard about bit shares a long time ago and have some pts.  I guess we'll see what goodies I'll get for holding them for the next five years.

Offline cube

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Any consensus will ultimately be defied by the market because the weight of capital acting in unison will create a different and unexpected outcome (think how impossible it is to get set when everybody acts in unison). That is why the market peak and behaviour has shifted with each new DAC, as everyone keeps adjusting behaviour based on the last experience, ignoring the obvious game that everyone is doing likewise. It is more profitable to fade the herd, or if that cannot be gauged easily, invest with a longer term view on whether you think the investment is worthwhile or not.
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I think that says it.  +5%
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chryspano

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1) As a shareholder of BTSX, can I trade BTSX shares for PTS shares?
2) Can this be accomplished through the BTSX or PTS wallets, neither of them or both of them?
3) Can PTS shares be held in a wallet like Electrum?
4) I could liquidate BTSX into BTC, then buy PTS with BTC. That doesn't sound very wise, or is it?

a:If you want PTS and you only have BTSX that is the way to do it

I don't know what you mean. Are you answering #4 saying that's the right way or the only way to do it, and direct trade isn't possible?
Thats the only way to do it if you want some PTS

I thought BitsharesX also had exchange features built in, so why would I need to involve bter.com or BTC to obtain PTS?
The exchange is for bitAssets that track the value of "real" assets (e.g bitUSD is tracking the value of USD). There is a bitPTS bitAsset that can track the value of PTS(not trading yet) but so far you need the real PTS in order to get your DAC share from snapshots   

Also, I do not understand what PTS "coins" or shares in PTS have to do with DACs, unless it's just baked into the code of the DACs to allocate some portion of the DAC shares to owners of PTS when the DAC goes public. Is that it? If so I guess the existing DACs would then need to be forked to pay the dividends to the new PTS-DAC when it is created after this year?
AFAIK there is nothing like shares in PTS, only PTS "coins" (Bitshares PTS). Bitshares PTS for the time being is a POW coin, every new DAC announces a snapshot date, If you hold Bitshares PTS in your wallet (or in some exchanges that will honor the snapshot) you earn "shares" or whatever it is called in this new DAC. I can' t understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence but DACs that already exist like BitsharesX have nothing to do with Bitshares PTS in the future. 

As much as I've read and studied there seem to be some fundamentals of the I3 ecosystem I don't quite grasp, like the current and planned relationships between DACs, PTS & BTSX.
BTSX (BitsharesX) is a DAC
Every new DAC anounces a snapshot date and gives "Shares" to PTS(Bitshares PTS) and AGS(Bitshares AGS) holders.

If in the future we will have some new DACs that rely on existing DACs, chances are that this new DAC will honor the holders of the DAC that it relies on and NOT PTS and AGS holders, e.g a new DAC that relies on BitsharesX(BTSX) will honor BitsharesX holders only.


What I'm thinking is PTS/Protoshares was the initial PoW "coin" setup to fund and experiment with PoS & DACs.
PTS/Protoshares(Bitshares PTS) is the initial PoW coin that gives "shares" to you every time a new DAC snapshot date is announced if you hold PTS in your wallet at the snapshot date.

Also, since the DNS DAC is already snapshoted, why isn't there more activity here on the forum related to the DNS DAC?
I think it's too early, snapshot date of  BTSX DAC was back in February and the first BTSX wallet released 1-2 months ago I think.

If anything I said is incorrect/wrong, someone please correct me.



Offline starspirit

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On the OP's original question:

First, the price fall of PTS after the snapshot is not necessarily a loss of value. It happens because there has effectively been a capital distribution of shares in the new DAC. So the fall represents the market's evaluation of those shares, plus there is general market movement around that depending on the shift in supply and demand for PTS at that point. If you believe the value of the NOTES to be distributed on the snapshot date is not fully factored in the current PTS price, you should hold PTS unless it becomes overpriced beforehand.

Second, there is really no point asking for a consensus on what the most profitable strategy is. Any consensus will ultimately be defied by the market because the weight of capital acting in unison will create a different and unexpected outcome (think how impossible it is to get set when everybody acts in unison). That is why the market peak and behaviour has shifted with each new DAC, as everyone keeps adjusting behaviour based on the last experience, ignoring the obvious game that everyone is doing likewise. It is more profitable to fade the herd, or if that cannot be gauged easily, invest with a longer term view on whether you think the investment is worthwhile or not.

Nevertheless all of us have fun asking ourselves the exact same question, but always know what you don't know! Best of luck.

Offline donkeypong

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Also, since the DNS DAC is already snapshoted, why isn't there more activity here on the forum related to the DNS DAC?

Because the developer is still developing and testing the DNS DAC application.  Got to wait for it to be ready.

As for the MUSIC Dac, the latest news is that there will be a pre-sales event (ie funding event) AFTER the snapshot. This means the shares derived from this snapshot would be worth less somewhat.   I do not expect PTS price to hold.

Worth less? What are you smoking, my friend? BitShares Music has significantly INCREASED the proposed allocation for both PTS and AGS. With AGS' expiration, PTS is the only way in there aside from the limited pre-sale that probably will occur. Do you understand the massive potential of this DAC? PTS should be worth about $30 right now. I just bought some more yesterday and that won't be my last. If it turns out there is a pre-sale, that should create more of a buzz, so some small dilution is a minimal price to pay. For anyone who has followed these proposed allocations, one PTS has FAR more value than it did 48 hours ago.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 04:31:03 am by donkeypong »

Offline cube

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Also, since the DNS DAC is already snapshoted, why isn't there more activity here on the forum related to the DNS DAC?

Because the developer is still developing and testing the DNS DAC application.  Got to wait for it to be ready.

As for the MUSIC Dac, the latest news is that there will be a pre-sales event (ie funding event) AFTER the snapshot. This means the shares derived from this snapshot would be worth less somewhat.   I do not expect PTS price to hold.
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Offline Thom

Quote
1) As a shareholder of BTSX, can I trade BTSX shares for PTS shares?
2) Can this be accomplished through the BTSX or PTS wallets, neither of them or both of them?
3) Can PTS shares be held in a wallet like Electrum?
4) I could liquidate BTSX into BTC, then buy PTS with BTC. That doesn't sound very wise, or is it?

a:If you want PTS and you only have BTSX that is the way to do it

I don't know what you mean. Are you answering #4 saying that's the right way or the only way to do it, and direct trade isn't possible?

I thought BitsharesX also had exchange features built in, so why would I need to involve bter.com or BTC to obtain PTS?

Also, I do not understand what PTS "coins" or shares in PTS have to do with DACs, unless it's just baked into the code of the DACs to allocate some portion of the DAC shares to owners of PTS when the DAC goes public. Is that it? If so I guess the existing DACs would then need to be forked to pay the dividends to the new PTS-DAC when it is created after this year?

As much as I've read and studied there seem to be some fundamentals of the I3 ecosystem I don't quite grasp, like the current and planned relationships between DACs, PTS & BTSX.

What I'm thinking is PTS/Protoshares was the initial PoW "coin" setup to fund and experiment with PoS & DACs.

Also, since the DNS DAC is already snapshoted, why isn't there more activity here on the forum related to the DNS DAC?
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Offline sschechter

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How to profit from Music DAC Snapshot:

1.  Go back in time one week.

2. Buy PTS

3. Profit!
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline mf-tzo

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1) As a shareholder of BTSX, can I trade BTSX shares for PTS shares?
2) Can this be accomplished through the BTSX or PTS wallets, neither of them or both of them?
3) Can PTS shares be held in a wallet like Electrum?
4) I could liquidate BTSX into BTC, then buy PTS with BTC. That doesn't sound very wise, or is it?

a:If you want PTS and you only have BTSX that is the way to do it

5) Right now my entire stake is in BTSX. Should I even consider buying PTS before 1/1/2015 or whenever PTS changes to PoS?

a:If you are interested in DAC music when the snapshot date has been announced the 10th Oct, then you should invest in PTS before then

6) If I converted my entire BTSX stake into PTS now, would I get it back in BTSX dividends later?

a: No.Irrelevant
7) Does my strong interest in the DNS DAC specifically relevant to these questions?

a: DNS and Vote snapshots were taken already. So buying PTS now will not grant you shares in DNS DAC but rather in Music DAC (PTS should be held in your wallet at the snapshot time or else the exchange will claim your shares and may or may not allocate them to you)

Offline Thom

I think if you want to interest someone in the 'investment' opportunity, then tell them to load up on their PTS now.

Ut oh, another newbie alert - My understanding is that PTS is POW blockchain and the first public release took place on Feb 28 this year. I see it can be purchased on exchanges, such as bter.com

Questions:

1) As a shareholder of BTSX, can I trade BTSX shares for PTS shares?
2) Can this be accomplished through the BTSX or PTS wallets, neither of them or both of them?
3) Can PTS shares be held in a wallet like Electrum?
4) I could liquidate BTSX into BTC, then buy PTS with BTC. That doesn't sound very wise, or is it?
5) Right now my entire stake is in BTSX. Should I even consider buying PTS before 1/1/2015 or whenever PTS changes to PoS?
6) If I converted my entire BTSX stake into PTS now, would I get it back in BTSX dividends later?
7) Does my strong interest in the DNS DAC specifically relevant to these questions?
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Offline donkeypong

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Is anyone interested in posting about the Music DAC snapshot in the music forum of reddit? Might be a good place to push it?

Also, is there any plans for contacting actual bands? I have a personal relationship with the singer of a band that has sold over 500,000 records but I don't want to say anything until this is really solid. He also seems like the type of person who may be on board with this and has a huge connection to many many many other bands. If you're aged 18-35 in the USA you probably know this band.

I agree. A number of us want to help sell this one, but are waiting for the product to exist first. I think if you want to interest someone in the 'investment' opportunity, then tell them to load up on their PTS now. But if you are talking about attracting artists, we might want to wait until there's a solid site, etc. Unless you know them really well and think they can be patient through testing phases, etc., maybe only if they're technical or interested in Bitcoin. 

Offline feedthemcake

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Is anyone interested in posting about the Music DAC snapshot in the music forum of reddit? Might be a good place to push it?

Also, is there any plans for contacting actual bands? I have a personal relationship with the singer of a band that has sold over 500,000 records but I don't want to say anything until this is really solid. He also seems like the type of person who may be on board with this and has a huge connection to many many many other bands. If you're aged 18-35 in the USA you probably know this band.

Offline robrigo

Forgive my ignorance. but since I'm very interested in the DNS DAC, so its important I understand this.

What exactly is a snapshot? It obviously implies something in motion and saving the state of whatever is in motion.

In this discussion we're talking about the Music DAC, so how is that in motion? I didn't think that was launched yet. Is the Music DAC "in motion" starting from the transactions in a genesis block ongoing to the present, such transactions representing trades between developers of the Music DAC?

I see the term snapshot used fairly often but I haven't found just what it means in a bitshares / DAC context yet.

A snapshot is an instant in time in which the BitShares PTS blockchain state is "saved". Then using the PTS wallet keys, holders of PTS can claim their stake from the initial allocation of the new DAC that corresponds to the snapshot when the Proto DAC blockchain is released into the wild. The process of claiming is built right into the BitShares toolkit, so you can upload the PTS wallet directly from the GUI of the new DAC and receive your stake. Some exchanges handle this process for you, but it is always safer to hold your own PTS in a local wallet.

P.S. I haven't claimed any stake this way yet, so if someone sees a hole in my explanation please correct me!

Offline Thom

Forgive my ignorance. but since I'm very interested in the DNS DAC, so its important I understand this.

What exactly is a snapshot? It obviously implies something in motion and saving the state of whatever is in motion.

In this discussion we're talking about the Music DAC, so how is that in motion? I didn't think that was launched yet. Is the Music DAC "in motion" starting from the transactions in a genesis block ongoing to the present, such transactions representing trades between developers of the Music DAC?

I see the term snapshot used fairly often but I haven't found just what it means in a bitshares / DAC context yet.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html