Author Topic: Falkvinge on historic parrallels and possible reactions by gatekeepers  (Read 4134 times)

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Offline matt608

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Just a pump for anyone that has missed this, a really amazing video everyone must see! (link in first post)

Thanks for the reminder this was well worth watching.

chryspano

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Just a pump for anyone that has missed this, a really amazing video everyone must see! (link in first post)

Offline lovejoy

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I meant, here's your rebuttal to those who say:

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"NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."

Offline Thom

I love this talk from Eben Moglen, and this paragraph is particularly topical.  Here's your rebuttal, emphasis mine.

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In other words—though it shouldn't be necessary to demonstrate, though we ought to have taken the bitter experience of American history in the 19th century and the history of the West in the 20th for sufficient demonstration—for those who really do like ignoring the facts and working it out abstractly, with chalk, privacy is a requirement of democratic self-government. The effort to fasten the procedures of pervasive surveillance on human society is the antithesis of liberty. - Eben Moglen from "Snowden and the Future"

What do you mean rebuttal? That quote supports the OP as well as my endorsement of it. Privacy is one important aspect of freedom the masses seem to have forgotten. What, are they all nudists or think like nudists "I've got nothing to hide". Bullshit. They're just fooling themselves, and genitals are just the obvious things. Only the foolish discloses how much money they're worth to a used car salesman.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline lovejoy

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"if there could be a social decentralized network that nobody can spy on you, if you could send money without the need to disclose all your personal information, if you could have an internet that no one can spy your search habits, would you be interested in such services?" the most common answer I get is "NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."

It appears to me that people have linked in their head the decentralization and the privacy of information with something illegal. So how do you change that? .


History lessons.  People forget history... They think, it can't happen here, we are in some age of enlightenment where this sort of concern is no longer relevant.

I love this talk from Eben Moglen, and this paragraph is particularly topical.  Here's your rebuttal, emphasis mine.

Quote
In other words—though it shouldn't be necessary to demonstrate, though we ought to have taken the bitter experience of American history in the 19th century and the history of the West in the 20th for sufficient demonstration—for those who really do like ignoring the facts and working it out abstractly, with chalk, privacy is a requirement of democratic self-government. The effort to fasten the procedures of pervasive surveillance on human society is the antithesis of liberty. - Eben Moglen from "Snowden and the Future"

Offline Ben Mason

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Your passion does you credit Thom.

I love it too.  Who would have thought that the final battle between good & evil would be arranged so?  With mountains of malevolent bankers and their slave states on the one side with a handful of brave, innovative technological computer wizards (not me) :)) on the other.

I really hope that the sheer potency and pervasiveness of the blockchain technology can save us all from one final conflagration.  Then, as Bill Hicks said....

"Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.”

Offline Thom

Quote
A lot of the so-called leading figureheads in bitcoin have been almost begging for the red-flag laws to be called upon bitcoin and others, like mr BTC-China. Saying stuff like we need legislation that does not stifle or other nonsense like that, because history shows us that is a contradiction in terms. What's the point of making trustless, robust and corruption preventing systems and then asking for legislation, that's just admitting the design is flawed and the experiment has failed.
+5%

Quote
"if there could be a social decentralized network that nobody can spy on you, if you could send money without the need to disclose all your personal information, if you could have an internet that no one can spy your search habits, would you be interested in such services?" the most common answer I get is "NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."
Don't fall into depression from such thinking and sentiment. I know it's prevalent and difficult, especially when you're surrounded by it.

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We change it by giving our unique skills to the ecosystem we believe most reflects our own values.  And by being brave enough to make a stand. 
What Fuzz said here is the best answer, and the one thing we can do within our own power to control. Turn your back on "the system" as best you can, and face the challenges of what YOU can do IN YOUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE to make a different, alternative, better world.

I love threads like this. I feel they're kindof "pep talks" to keep the troops focused on the big picture, the goal we should all be striving for though every effort, coding, marketing, evangelism etc.

As to why people resist and are victims of propaganda and seem to be comfortable with violence (the violence of taxation, which makes the violence of war possible), you need to dig into philosophy and study the nature of man's psyche.

Like Charlie Chaplin said:
Quote
Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost....
I agree with him there's not enough empathy in the world, but I disagree there's too much thinking. It's NOT THINKING that has allowed the psychopaths to persuade those that DON"T THINK their way is the better way for humanity, all the while they sit in wait as they slowly take control of the fruits of labor everyone else produces but they refuse to.

Don't defer your will to another through authority - take responsibility for your actions and think about their ramifications. Each of us have choices to make in our everyday lives. Make them count for something good, something that will last beyond your brief time of being alive.

I was once an extremely religious person, not pious and seeking leadership but rather always seeking truth. It took decades but truth finally prevailed and I cast off the limiting chains that restricted my freedom to live to my potential. But like so many things, religion has both good and evil elements, and it's important you learn how to discern between them.

Some believe mankind is born evil and must learn to become good. Others the opposite. I believe neither of those are true. We are born as a blank slate, like a fresh new computer without an operating system. Whether that computer does great things or brings the network to it's knees is all a matter of it's software, how it's programmed. The potential for good or evil is in all of us from the beginning. For children their role models dictate their early programming or BIOS, and it isn't within their control to change it. They're caught in the web of dysfunctional history unless they are born to parents that can see through it and make changes to give that new life a better chance take a different path than the trajectory his / her ancestors have placed them in.

So much of life is learning how to do that and learning how to strike a balance. But don't confuse balance with compromise. Stand firm to the principles of truth and let it guide all your decisions. Learn how to find truth, act on it and you will lead a virtuous life and a better place to posterity than you inherited.

For those who wish to pursue the root causes of violence and explore the philosophical basis for what I said above check out http://www.freedomainradio.com/. To stop the cycle of violence lets stop inflicting it on the most helpless among us - children. 

Sorry for the long post. But I get rather passionate with threads like this.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline fuzzy

It is obvious that there is a need for redistribution of wealth worldwide. It is obvious that there is a great need for decentralization.

I am talking to medium class educated people daily about those needs and they really don't get it. I hear all the time people complaining about how Facebook, yahoo, google etc control all the information about everybody, how the stock markets are manipulated,  the lack of security etc etc and when I mention something like:
 
"if there could be a social decentralized network that nobody can spy on you, if you could send money without the need to disclose all your personal information, if you could have an internet that no one can spy your search habits, would you be interested in such services?" the most common answer I get is "NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."

It appears to me that people have linked in their head the decentralization and the privacy of information with something illegal. So how do you change that? .

I think that only if we change this wrong perception the redistribution of wealth through decentralization can be truly achieved and still it will be something really difficult to do because by the time this perception is changed, the more wealthy people, people with more knowledge power, even the Governments themselves with the existing financial body they support would have already invested in this idea in advance and will for one more time gain more than the average unbanked Jo.

We change it by giving our unique skills to the ecosystem we believe most reflects our own values.  And by being brave enough to make a stand.  Many people will respect a cryptonerd who tells a querying congressman something to the effect of "We are fixing what you guys F*d up.  You have been caught passing laws to legalize insider trading for yourselves, being paid off by huge Internationally Based Corporations and you right laws for them aYou left our generation with the problem...and we are fixing it so we no longer need you". 

Watch someone say that...get it on youtube...and watch how quickly it goes viral.   Then wait for a crypt-based false flag to try to regain traction...but guess what, the internet has made "False Flag" a common term.  People know the old tricks.  They can't win, unless we get greedy and care more about "profit" than the ultimate goal. 

Profit comes later. 

I loved watching Andreas Antonopolis talk, but I do wish he would have gotten a few solid "jabs" in for strategic reasons.   
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:07:17 pm by theFu.. »
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Offline mf-tzo

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It is obvious that there is a need for redistribution of wealth worldwide. It is obvious that there is a great need for decentralization.

I am talking to medium class educated people daily about those needs and they really don't get it. I hear all the time people complaining about how Facebook, yahoo, google etc control all the information about everybody, how the stock markets are manipulated,  the lack of security etc etc and when I mention something like:
 
"if there could be a social decentralized network that nobody can spy on you, if you could send money without the need to disclose all your personal information, if you could have an internet that no one can spy your search habits, would you be interested in such services?" the most common answer I get is "NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."

It appears to me that people have linked in their head the decentralization and the privacy of information with something illegal. So how do you change that? .

I think that only if we change this wrong perception the redistribution of wealth through decentralization can be truly achieved and still it will be something really difficult to do because by the time this perception is changed, the more wealthy people, people with more knowledge power, even the Governments themselves with the existing financial body they support would have already invested in this idea in advance and will for one more time gain more than the average unbanked Jo. 

Offline Ben Mason

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Charlie Chaplain, The Great Dictator -

"I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost....

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.

To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. ....."

On youtube, the above speech mixes very movingly with Hiatus - Precious Little.....just get them both going at about the same time....

There is no choice but to resist.....because how can we enjoy the world's staggering beauty if we stand idly by whilst others are subjected to such ugliness?

Offline JoeyD

We should resist, that's the whole point.

The video also puts into perspective what kinds of push back the current gatekeepers will give and that "we" aren't as alert because of the internet as people think we are. As proven by the successful brainwashing of the masses into thinking copying something you own is evil and means you are a "pirate". If you think about it, it is pretty amazing that they actually succeeded in this, reprogramming on a massive scale.

I personally think this decentralization and redistribution of financial power is bigger than the internet, although maybe not as big as the printing press and bringing literacy to the masses, it does affect some pretty powerful gatekeepers. What I don't know is how coordinated these systems that are now being threatened are. If they are coordinated then things will get ugly and we have seen nothing yet.

However other than trying to warn people and making them aware of the dangers and making as many competing blockchain like solutions (whack a mole), I can't think of many other ways to counteract this danger of people being subservient to these unjustified power-structures. Brainwashing on this large a scale is hard to get rid off, more often than not it needs some big wars to wake people up and even then the results are only limited at best.

A lot of the so-called leading figureheads in bitcoin have been almost begging for the red-flag laws to be called upon bitcoin and others, like mr BTC-China. Saying stuff like we need legislation that does not stifle or other nonsense like that, because history shows us that is a contradiction in terms. What's the point of making trustless, robust and corruption preventing systems and then asking for legislation, that's just admitting the design is flawed and the experiment has failed.

Offline cube

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I like what the presenter has highlighted.  The legacy players would attempt to choke off innovative tech like bitcoin.  Already we have lost our privacy rights when buying bitcoin from the exchange because of the Know-Your-Customer rule under the pretext of anti money-laundering.  We do not have KYC with dollar notes. There may be more rules that are coming out.. eg the current talk of FinCen investigating companies that carried out fund raising via bitcoin.  The music industry players may lobby for rules against bitshare music dac and peertracks. Should we resist or is resistance futile?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 01:14:23 am by cube »
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Offline cass

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don't follow the complete video so honestly idk if this is right .. .




But thinking he wants to go with SWARM ... just noticed ...
I don't think that has anything to do with SWARM coin.
Check it out "Changing the world through swarm intelligence: Rick Falkvinge at TEDxOslo 2013" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdiFV-AFbBA

 thx for this info ...
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Offline Gentso1

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Profound. His examples, thoughts and ideas are just delightful. I wish he could provide more examples of what we can to to get to mainstream but I respect the fact that he isn't going to pretend to have all the answers.

Offline Thom

+5% +5% +5%

It's so important for people to grasp that once the power of money is more fairly distributed, the world's entire incentive structure will change.  The effect will be hard to imagine....
explosive innovation, the possibility of justice and a grand unveiling of truth.....

The incumbent gatekeepers have zero legitimacy....their legacy is famine, disease, war, environmental destruction, slavery, theft, lies and fear.

 +5%

Dang JoeyD, that's a fantastic video! I sure hope Stan & Dan watch it and internalize it's message. I've posted elsewhere in this forum my dissatisfaction of acquiescing our principles to the likes of funcen & aml pressure to hasten adoption, but this video strengthens my resolve to lobby III to resist that temptation and stand firm. If that means adoption is slower so be it. I just hope III can see the big picture well enough to know what the crucial decision points are and clever enough to find financing and a path to move forward where fincen & aml are not in the way.

I don't envy any leaders in the crypto revolution and the hard choices they will be called to make. Perhaps we'll see a "mass disappearance" of crypto devs and prime movers (ala Atlas Shrugged) to only appear later in a crypto Galt's Gulch to continue their innovation beyond the fucked up gatekeeper establishment mentality so widespread today.

Man I loved that video!  +5% +5% +5%
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 05:49:46 pm by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html