Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert

[fuzzy]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Both sides need to take responsibility for poor Internet behavior.  Adam has always welcomed me on his show.

I think sooner or later,the concept of DAC would be written in a case law.

If a person sells shares in a DAC without regulation,is it illegal? (regarding the security act)

The result would be interesting . "United States V BitsharesX"  .

Maybe you can get in contact with the 《the good wife》 producer and be a guest star of the episode.

When I watch 《the good wife》 back then there was an episode regarding a hypothetical case against Bitcoin-Satoshi,the Bitcoin price was 30$ at the time.

But I thought Bitcoin was just a made up idea the TV show uses,so I didn't dig deeper.When I finally realized Bitcoin did exist,it's already too late .

If it does look like there will be a confrontation with legal authorities my advice to Bytemaster is to film a documentary of the events. This would force the feds to stay honest as it would put the maximum possible spotlight on the situation.

And also for history sake it should be properly documented. Historians will have to know what Bytemaster was thinking, why he and the team got involved with this project, why he and the team were willing to take risks.

At the same time on some smaller scale if shit goes down all of us should keep a blog and document our perspectives as well. It would not take much effort for us to keep pseudo-anonymous twitter accounts and discuss the situation or just discuss it on the forum. The point is that our motivations should be documented as well so that no matter if what we are doing turns out to be legal or illegal our intentions can never be politically manipulated after the fact.

Wow...I never considered how beneficial the Mumble Hangouts are from this vantage point.  Thanks Luckybit.  As always, my deepest respect.

[fuzzy]

One instance of humility would go a longggg way here...at least with me.

Admission of mistakes is not the sign of weakness.

"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable but more useful than a life spent doing nothing."

[James212]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Now the real question is, since bm could so easily answer this question is whether Adam feels sorry for this drama.  Does he, in retrospect, feel like maybe it would have been more effective and beneficial to everyone on the forums (including himself) to have made statements of the "shocking" dangers inherent in bitshares AGS first in private to ascertain Invictus' thoughts before bringin it so negligently to the forums?" 

This would have been seen as far more genuine and benevolent path than completely bypassing the invictus team, and potentially scaring away newbies who came here after the conference...

If adam can agree with this assessment I think there is good reason to believe we can move forward in the knowledge of how to garner community support instead of becoming the target of anger and resentment.

 ..............  I agree adam’s initial comments, (even if he felt they were true) were delivered fairly irresponsibly and should have been done with far more tact.       I can help but to wonder if he has similar comments on the boards of the other crypto organizations mentioned to be at risk?

Edit: (.....I have no problems with ABL. however these are my thoughts regarding the current issue at hand)

[xeroc]

The BitShares AGS Program is clearly defined at this link.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.msg21379#msg21379

It has been reviewed and polished by multiple international law firms.

Since we have clearly stated in all such formal releases from Day One that AGS contributions were no strings attached donations to be used any way we chose to build up the industry, the only thing authorities may have to worry about is whether people may have misunderstood that fact as a result of the public discussions of multiple alternative ideas that have taken place on this forum.  Repeated, nearly weekly, willfully misleading adversarial postings by respected public figures insisting that something else is true are, in my opinion, the primary cause of any such misunderstandings that might exist, and we will certainly point that out should any authorities ask about it.

Thanks for clarification .. I just highlighted some essentials sor Adam .. as he might have misinterpreted them in the past and stated wrongly in this thread somewhere ..

[Stan]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Now the real question is, since bm could so easily answer this question is whether Adam feels sorry for this drama.  Does he, in retrospect, feel like maybe it would have been more effective and beneficial to everyone on the forums (including himself) to have made statements of the "shocking" dangers inherent in bitshares AGS first in private to ascertain Invictus' thoughts before bringin it so negligently to the forums?" 

This would have been seen as far more genuine and benevolent path than completely bypassing the invictus team, and potentially scaring away newbies who came here after the conference...

If adam can agree with this assessment I think there is good reason to believe we can move forward in the knowledge of how to garner community support instead of becoming the target of anger and resentment.

The BitShares AGS Program is clearly defined at this link.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.msg21379#msg21379

It has been reviewed and polished by multiple international law firms.

Since we have clearly stated in all such formal releases from Day One that AGS contributions were no strings attached donations to be used any way we chose to build up the industry, the only thing authorities may have to worry about is whether people may have misunderstood that fact as a result of the public discussions of multiple alternative ideas that have taken place on this forum.  Repeated, nearly weekly, willfully misleading adversarial postings by respected public figures insisting that something else is true are, in my opinion, the primary cause of any such misunderstandings that might exist, and we will certainly point that out should any authorities ask about it.

[fuzzy]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Now the real question is, since bm could so easily answer this question is whether Adam feels sorry for this drama.  Does he, in retrospect, feel like maybe it would have been more effective and beneficial to everyone on the forums (including himself) to have made statements of the "shocking" dangers inherent in bitshares AGS first in private to ascertain Invictus' thoughts before bringin it so negligently to the forums?" 

This would have been seen as far more genuine and benevolent path than completely bypassing the invictus team, and potentially scaring away newbies who came here after the conference...

If adam can agree with this assessment I think there is good reason to believe we can move forward in the knowledge of how to garner community support instead of becoming the target of anger and resentment.

[xeroc]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Both sides need to take responsibility for poor Internet behavior.  Adam has always welcomed me on his show.

I think sooner or later,the concept of DAC would be written in a case law.

If a person sells shares in a DAC without regulation,is it illegal? (regarding the security act)

The result would be interesting . "United States V BitsharesX"  .

Maybe you can get in contact with the 《the good wife》 producer and be a guest star of the episode.

When I watch 《the good wife》 back then there was an episode regarding a hypothetical case against Bitcoin-Satoshi,the Bitcoin price was 30$ at the time.

But I thought Bitcoin was just a made up idea the TV show uses,so I didn't dig deeper.When I finally realized Bitcoin did exist,it's already too late .

If it does look like there will be a confrontation with legal authorities my advice to Bytemaster is to film a documentary of the events. This would force the feds to stay honest as it would put the maximum possible spotlight on the situation.

And also for history sake it should be properly documented. Historians will have to know what Bytemaster was thinking, why he and the team got involved with this project, why he and the team were willing to take risks.

At the same time on some smaller scale if shit goes down all of us should keep a blog and document our perspectives as well. It would not take much effort for us to keep pseudo-anonymous twitter accounts and discuss the situation or just discuss it on the forum. The point is that our motivations should be documented as well so that no matter if what we are doing turns out to be legal or illegal our intentions can never be politically manipulated after the fact.

[luckybit]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Both sides need to take responsibility for poor Internet behavior.  Adam has always welcomed me on his show.

I think sooner or later,the concept of DAC would be written in a case law.

If a person sells shares in a DAC without regulation,is it illegal? (regarding the security act)

The result would be interesting . "United States V BitsharesX"  .

Maybe you can get in contact with the 《the good wife》 producer and be a guest star of the episode.

When I watch 《the good wife》 back then there was an episode regarding a hypothetical case against Bitcoin-Satoshi,the Bitcoin price was 30$ at the time.

But I thought Bitcoin was just a made up idea the TV show uses,so I didn't dig deeper.When I finally realized Bitcoin did exist,it's already too late .

If it does look like there will be a confrontation with legal authorities my advice to Bytemaster is to film a documentary of the events. This would force the feds to stay honest as it would put the maximum possible spotlight on the situation.

And also for history sake it should be properly documented. Historians will have to know what Bytemaster was thinking, why he and the team got involved with this project, why he and the team were willing to take risks.

At the same time on some smaller scale if shit goes down all of us should keep a blog and document our perspectives as well. It would not take much effort for us to keep pseudo-anonymous twitter accounts and discuss the situation or just discuss it on the forum. The point is that our motivations should be documented as well so that no matter if what we are doing turns out to be legal or illegal our intentions can never be politically manipulated after the fact.

[cube]

I think sooner or later,the concept of DAC would be written in a case law.

If a person sells shares in a DAC without regulation,is it illegal? (regarding the security act)

The result would be interesting . "United States V BitsharesX"  .

...

I think it is going to be more of "The World VS Crypto".  Many countries outside USA are looking towards it as the leader when it comes to regulations for bitcoin and other crypto.  I am sure their securities regulators are watching the SEC and FinCen closely.

[cube]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Both sides need to take responsibility for poor Internet behavior.  Adam has always welcomed me on his show.

Thanks for the information.

I am relieved to know that we are talking about a if-worst-case fine here (no jail thinggy) and an amount seems manageable.  Everyone involved are working hard here.  It is good to know that these efforts are protected by lawyers who are ensuring compliance. 

[bytemaster]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

Ags is what it is.  If regulators decide it is a security then like sdice, we may have to pay $50k fine.   Guess what: we have already paid that much in lawyer fees trying to maintain compliance.   

No one is going to jail as no harm has been done.  No fraud.  At most a disagreement over interpretation of the law which we worked hard to comply with.   

Both sides need to take responsibility for poor Internet behavior.  Adam has always welcomed me on his show.

[toast]

Guys, ABL is not the enemy...

[gamey]

The question is whether my concern is FUD.  If you don't believe anything can happen to invictus, you'll believe anything I say that suggests the contrary is FUD because that lets you dismiss it out of hand.  It seems obvious I am passionate about people getting real information, i'm equally passionate in trying to explain to the people who want me to shut up why they want me to shut up

You are bringing up things that were commented on quite some time ago for a question that no one here can even answer.  It appears purely malicious since no one can give an answer.  No one here has even done much to you except not follow your demands.  Maybe you should write some letters to the government since this appears who you seem to be directing this thread towards.

[BitTitan]

So are you here giving legal advice then? Can we get that in writing or are you going to go do something more valuable for yourself and everyone else?

[AdamBLevine]

Mostly it seems like you're getting upset that I think people like tonyk (and you) have a net negative impact because you're nicer when someone agrees with you and very suspicious (i.e. protective) when they are asking questions you think might be dangerous to the project or that should somehow only be asked if a person is trying to generate FUD.

Please enlighten us and show where you came here to ASK a question ..

From what I can see from over here is YOU spreading FUD:

... and I'll be shocked if Invictus is not getting a knock on the door come raid day for Angelshares.

The question you SHOULD have asked would be like:

"Hey friends, I heard blabla... what's the status on that issue regarding AGS funds?"

See the question mark?

I'm beginning to see more truth by the empirical evidence you're highlighting xeroc. I won't be quick to kick anybody to the curb, so I will continue to take it ALL in. But it's pretty easy to see the emotion in Adam's latest post, and you do make a good point here.

The question is whether my concern is FUD.  If you don't believe anything can happen to invictus, you'll believe anything I say that suggests the contrary is FUD because that lets you dismiss it out of hand.  It seems obvious I am passionate about people getting real information, i'm equally passionate in trying to explain to the people who want me to shut up why they want me to shut up