EASY FIX to improve user experience on DEX

[Pheonike]

The groupings are great, makes it a lot easier to track what going on with the pairs.

[luckybit]

The DEX has a serious flaw that is killing user adoption.  It is simply way too confusing with all of the different versions of the same assets (primarily BTC, USD, CNY), and all of the associated different versions of the same markets.  It's a major mess and I can't prove it but I would bet my life that adoption and usage are suffering dramatically. 

But there's a relatively easy fix.  What if we had the concept of "primary" and "secondary" markets...and each registrar could specify for their own users which markets fall into which category.  So right now on the trading page we have 2 markets tabs: 1) My Markets and 2) All Markets.  What I'm proposing instead is that we could have a "Markets" header with 3 tabs labeled: 1) Favorites, 2) Primary, 3) Secondary.  The "Primary" markets would be a short list of markets designated as primary by the registrar.  "Secondary" markets would be everything else.  And "Favorites" would obviously be those starred by the user.  This way the list of markets can be "cleaned up" so it's not confusing for users. 

This solution would be very easy to implement yet would help improve adoption, and hopefully inch us a tiny bit further into the adoption/liquidity virtuous cycle we're painstakingly striving toward.  Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/FF-tKLISfPE

[Pheonike]

How about an address book on the transfer page.

[tbone]

@svk, the new grouped markets is a really nice improvement!   To make this feature even more useful, I wonder if you could make a toggle for viewing and hiding the depth chart so users can have the Markets vertically span the full right-hand column if they choose to.  Probably the most elegant way to handle this would be to add one of your little up/down pairs of arrows at the top of Favorite/Find Markets to toggle the Markets between full/partial length.

By the way, in Find Markets, I see BTS under CNY.  But not under USD or BTC.  Do you know why that is?  Also, in the larger "Explore" version of Favorite/Find Markets, can you make it so the columns line up from one group to the next?  Finally, could you add an additional column with header "My Balance" to show the user's balances for any assets they have positions in?  That would be great.  Thanks for all of your work on this.

i also like the market groupings.

Funny, I just pointed that out in the other thread.  Yeah, it's a nice improvement.

[cylonmaker2053]

@svk, the new grouped markets is a really nice improvement!   To make this feature even more useful, I wonder if you could make a toggle for viewing and hiding the depth chart so users can have the Markets vertically span the full right-hand column if they choose to.  Probably the most elegant way to handle this would be to add one of your little up/down pairs of arrows at the top of Favorite/Find Markets to toggle the Markets between full/partial length.

By the way, in Find Markets, I see BTS under CNY.  But not under USD or BTC.  Do you know why that is?  Also, in the larger "Explore" version of Favorite/Find Markets, can you make it so the columns line up from one group to the next?  Finally, could you add an additional column with header "My Balance" to show the user's balances for any assets they have positions in?  That would be great.  Thanks for all of your work on this.

i also like the market groupings.

[tbone]

@svk, the new grouped markets is a really nice improvement!   To make this feature even more useful, I wonder if you could make a toggle for viewing and hiding the depth chart so users can have the Markets vertically span the full right-hand column if they choose to.  Probably the most elegant way to handle this would be to add one of your little up/down pairs of arrows at the top of Favorite/Find Markets to toggle the Markets between full/partial length.

By the way, in Find Markets, I see BTS under CNY.  But not under USD or BTC.  Do you know why that is?  Also, in the larger "Explore" version of Favorite/Find Markets, can you make it so the columns line up from one group to the next?  Finally, could you add an additional column with header "My Balance" to show the user's balances for any assets they have positions in?  That would be great.  Thanks for all of your work on this.

[roadscape]

yeah, i tried to query our most liquid markets and nothing happened. what gives?

nobody cares about our illiquid markets and they are getting free advertising at the top of the list of markets. and for what?

the front market page is our prime real estate so put our best markets there man

I've said this before but I guess I need to say it again: there's no way to poll for most liquid markets!

The whole markets list is the way it is because of the limitations of the backend, there's just too many markets for it to keep track of in terms of top volume and I can't start polling every possible combination in order to find the most liquid markets. Perhaps if Cryptofresh (@roadscape) started tracking this and added an API for it I could use that, but for now this is the way it has to be. Of course depending on external resources is not great either and I've avoided doing that so far.

I'll try to revamp the layout slightly though, grouping by BASE currency like on Polo; and I'll add some more default markets.

Tracking all the markets and their volumes is something I'm planning to do on Cryptofresh. It's definitely something we need and it seems devs are very reluctant to add this to the core because of performance concerns..

edit: once it's in I can definitely create an API endpoint.. but I get your point about external dependencies.. so once I am able to pull this data out, it might be easier just to use it as a reference and hardcode a list of "featured" markets

[Louis]

I'm not sure if you any skinning, but anything but those muddy colors would make a difference.

 

Am I wrong? I just don't understand the appeal to the dark colors, it feels dated in my opinion.

I agree with you regarding the dark color, I thought the "day" feature was supposed to be done by Dec 15, but it seems that the idea has been put on the back burner.. 

[Pheonike]

In the GUI on the overview page, can we add a percentage value change column for the assets or replace the percentage of supply with it. I don't care how much of the supply I have. I do care how much it's values has change. May even have overall value percentage increase/decrease on the page too.

[TravelsAsia]

I'm not sure if you any skinning, but anything but those muddy colors would make a difference.

 

Am I wrong? I just don't understand the appeal to the dark colors, it feels dated in my opinion.

[tbone]

@svk:  I really like some of the new changes you made to the trading screen!  Overall, it has a even cleaner look than before.  Also, it's very helpful that more markets are visible at once.  And being able to see both the price and depth charts at the same time is nice.  The only drawback is now the history (aka ticker/tape, aka time & sales) is not visible without scrolling.  That's a biggie.  You really want to be able to see the charts, ticker and order book at the same time (see https://youtu.be/V0-slDuqZNU?t=363).  This is one of the big shortcomings of Poloniex (constantly having to scroll is a nightmare), and a good opportunity for us to be better. 

And the good news is that it's an easy fix because it's really not necessary to see the chart and the order entry form at the same time.  So I would suggest a great improvement would be to move the order entry form down.  So in the vertical order book configuration, you can just move the history/ticker and My Orders up.

Of course, the horizontal configuration is a little trickier, but still very doable.   The order book in this configuration has a ton of empty space.  And so does the ticker/history.  If you narrow those 3 by removing the dead space, they should very easily fit on the same row just below the chart, with the order entry form below that. 

If we make this modification, we'll be the only crypto trading platform that I've seen where you can see the price chart, depth chart, order book, ticker/history, and "watch list" (markets) all at the same time.  That would be amazing!  What do you think about doing this, svk?

Thanks for the feedback!

I admit I miss having the history visible myself, so I'll try to make it visible again.

Would be interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about moving the buy/sell entry forms down below the history.

Reducing the vertical space taken by the charts slightly might be a good idea as well, especially on small screens.

My only concern here would be that the price chart is already getting a bit vertically scrunched.  Not to mention, I don't think you could gain enough space to make enough of a difference anyway. 

So it comes down to which elements do you need to see without scrolling, and which do you not mind having to scroll in order to see.  And the best way to think about this is to consider that one only needs to use the order entry form when placing a trade, which is a fraction of the time they are looking at this screen.  On the other hand, assuming the market they want to see is loaded, they are spending the vast majority of time watching market action, which requires price chart, order book, time & sales (history), and depth chart (to a lesser extent). 

By the way, if there's anyone that spends more time using the order entry form vs. watching market action, I would suggest that such a person doesn't need a trading screen.  Instead, they need a simplified UI to exchange one currency for another (e.g. similar to coinbase).

I agree with pretty much everything you said in both posts, so stay tuned

Great.  Really looking forward to seeing the next version!  By the way, do you see making the groups collapsible and giving the user the ability to specify how many rows are visible within each group?  That would be excellent.

[cass]

I'm not sure if you any skinning, but anything but those muddy colors would make a difference.

 

[TravelsAsia]

 I'm not sure if you any skinning, but anything but those muddy colors would make a difference.

[svk]

@svk:  I really like some of the new changes you made to the trading screen!  Overall, it has a even cleaner look than before.  Also, it's very helpful that more markets are visible at once.  And being able to see both the price and depth charts at the same time is nice.  The only drawback is now the history (aka ticker/tape, aka time & sales) is not visible without scrolling.  That's a biggie.  You really want to be able to see the charts, ticker and order book at the same time (see https://youtu.be/V0-slDuqZNU?t=363).  This is one of the big shortcomings of Poloniex (constantly having to scroll is a nightmare), and a good opportunity for us to be better. 

And the good news is that it's an easy fix because it's really not necessary to see the chart and the order entry form at the same time.  So I would suggest a great improvement would be to move the order entry form down.  So in the vertical order book configuration, you can just move the history/ticker and My Orders up.

Of course, the horizontal configuration is a little trickier, but still very doable.   The order book in this configuration has a ton of empty space.  And so does the ticker/history.  If you narrow those 3 by removing the dead space, they should very easily fit on the same row just below the chart, with the order entry form below that. 

If we make this modification, we'll be the only crypto trading platform that I've seen where you can see the price chart, depth chart, order book, ticker/history, and "watch list" (markets) all at the same time.  That would be amazing!  What do you think about doing this, svk?

Thanks for the feedback!

I admit I miss having the history visible myself, so I'll try to make it visible again.

Would be interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about moving the buy/sell entry forms down below the history.

Reducing the vertical space taken by the charts slightly might be a good idea as well, especially on small screens.

My only concern here would be that the price chart is already getting a bit vertically scrunched.  Not to mention, I don't think you could gain enough space to make enough of a difference anyway. 

So it comes down to which elements do you need to see without scrolling, and which do you not mind having to scroll in order to see.  And the best way to think about this is to consider that one only needs to use the order entry form when placing a trade, which is a fraction of the time they are looking at this screen.  On the other hand, assuming the market they want to see is loaded, they are spending the vast majority of time watching market action, which requires price chart, order book, time & sales (history), and depth chart (to a lesser extent). 

By the way, if there's anyone that spends more time using the order entry form vs. watching market action, I would suggest that such a person doesn't need a trading screen.  Instead, they need a simplified UI to exchange one currency for another (e.g. similar to coinbase).

I agree with pretty much everything you said in both posts, so stay tuned

[tbone]

@svk:  I really like some of the new changes you made to the trading screen!  Overall, it has a even cleaner look than before.  Also, it's very helpful that more markets are visible at once.  And being able to see both the price and depth charts at the same time is nice.  The only drawback is now the history (aka ticker/tape, aka time & sales) is not visible without scrolling.  That's a biggie.  You really want to be able to see the charts, ticker and order book at the same time (see https://youtu.be/V0-slDuqZNU?t=363).  This is one of the big shortcomings of Poloniex (constantly having to scroll is a nightmare), and a good opportunity for us to be better. 

And the good news is that it's an easy fix because it's really not necessary to see the chart and the order entry form at the same time.  So I would suggest a great improvement would be to move the order entry form down.  So in the vertical order book configuration, you can just move the history/ticker and My Orders up.

Of course, the horizontal configuration is a little trickier, but still very doable.   The order book in this configuration has a ton of empty space.  And so does the ticker/history.  If you narrow those 3 by removing the dead space, they should very easily fit on the same row just below the chart, with the order entry form below that. 

If we make this modification, we'll be the only crypto trading platform that I've seen where you can see the price chart, depth chart, order book, ticker/history, and "watch list" (markets) all at the same time.  That would be amazing!  What do you think about doing this, svk?

Thanks for the feedback!

I admit I miss having the history visible myself, so I'll try to make it visible again.

Would be interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about moving the buy/sell entry forms down below the history.

Reducing the vertical space taken by the charts slightly might be a good idea as well, especially on small screens.

My only concern here would be that the price chart is already getting a bit vertically scrunched.  Not to mention, I don't think you could gain enough space to make enough of a difference anyway. 

So it comes down to which elements do you need to see without scrolling, and which do you not mind having to scroll in order to see.  And the best way to think about this is to consider that one only needs to use the order entry form when placing a trade, which is a fraction of the time they are looking at this screen.  On the other hand, assuming the market they want to see is loaded, they are spending the vast majority of time watching market action, which requires price chart, order book, time & sales (history), and depth chart (to a lesser extent). 

By the way, if there's anyone that spends more time using the order entry form vs. watching market action, I would suggest that such a person doesn't need a trading screen.  Instead, they need a simplified UI to exchange one currency for another (e.g. similar to coinbase). 

[tbone]

yeah, i tried to query our most liquid markets and nothing happened. what gives?

nobody cares about our illiquid markets and they are getting free advertising at the top of the list of markets. and for what?

the front market page is our prime real estate so put our best markets there man

I've said this before but I guess I need to say it again: there's no way to poll for most liquid markets!

The whole markets list is the way it is because of the limitations of the backend, there's just too many markets for it to keep track of in terms of top volume and I can't start polling every possible combination in order to find the most liquid markets. Perhaps if Cryptofresh (@roadscape) started tracking this and added an API for it I could use that, but for now this is the way it has to be. Of course depending on external resources is not great either and I've avoided doing that so far.

I'll try to revamp the layout slightly though, grouping by BASE currency like on Polo; and I'll add some more default markets.

@svk: Really appreciate your efforts on this.  I know it's tricky for the reasons you mentioned.  But I have no doubt it will be a huge improvement to group by BASE currency as Poloniex does.  To avoid too many groups (since each group needs a header, which obviously takes space), what do you think about the idea of having a fiat header with a dropdown to select which fiat you're interested in (like below)? 

4 groups:

BTS
BTC
Fiat (SELECT: USD | CNY | EUR)
Other

Also, speaking of saving space, I think you can reduce the row height quite a bit (see Poloniex), which would also save a substantial amount of vertical space.  Horizontally speaking, now in the Market column you won't have to display the entire pair (except in the Other group), which will be a BIG improvement visually (and sorting on the Market column will also make more sense now).

By the way, I think it would be very helpful to let the find market function use BASE currency in the same way.  In other words, in find markets, you could have both a dropdown box and a text field.  The dropdown would list the same values as the 4 groups above, except with the fiats broken out (i.e. SELECT: BTS | BTC | USD | CNY | EUR | Other).  So it would default to a BASE currency, say BTC, but the user can choose a different base currency and view all pairs using that currency as a base instead.  And then optionally they can type into the text field to search within the markets paired with the selected BASE currency.  What do you think?

[cylonmaker2053]

Is there a way for users to rearrange their trade windows? i keep a lot of open orders and would love to reference them simultaneously in my view of the order book without having to scroll drown.

You mean the users being able to drag the "order book box" or the "charts box" to where they want and adjust their size? That would be pretty awesome, kinda like bubbles. A completely customizable page! Couldn't that affect the performance of the page though? What about creating a static and dynamic page buttons where users could select one according to their computer/internet specs?

yeah that's what i was thinking; either dynamic drag and drop, or even a configuration option where you can input preferences for window placement. that said, functionality is the most important thing IMO, so i don't mean to make suggestions that'd degrade the efficiency of the trading platform.

[Akado]

Is there a way for users to rearrange their trade windows? i keep a lot of open orders and would love to reference them simultaneously in my view of the order book without having to scroll drown.

You mean the users being able to drag the "order book box" or the "charts box" to where they want and adjust their size? That would be pretty awesome, kinda like bubbles. A completely customizable page! Couldn't that affect the performance of the page though? What about creating a static and dynamic page buttons where users could select one according to their computer/internet specs?

[cylonmaker2053]

Is there a way for users to rearrange their trade windows? i keep a lot of open orders and would love to reference them simultaneously in my view of the order book without having to scroll drown.

[Akado]

It looks pretty clean indeed. I like it. Just a couple details

On the highlited rectangle, the contrast is not the best and it's difficult to read. At least for me so I would appreciate if someone else shared their opinion on this.


It might be just me but it's kinda strange having the options on the bids side, why not in between  the tables? It would make them easier to see maybe? Also they should feel "clickable" and to maintain consistency I would suggest making it like the "Timer Interval" buttons probably, the ones with "1d", "4h", "1h", "30m", etc Either way, what I would like to suggest was to have it display what it does when we hoover with the mouse over the buttons so the user knows what actions it does (display order book horizontally/vertically)




Love the tables!

[svk]

@svk:  I really like some of the new changes you made to the trading screen!  Overall, it has a even cleaner look than before.  Also, it's very helpful that more markets are visible at once.  And being able to see both the price and depth charts at the same time is nice.  The only drawback is now the history (aka ticker/tape, aka time & sales) is not visible without scrolling.  That's a biggie.  You really want to be able to see the charts, ticker and order book at the same time (see https://youtu.be/V0-slDuqZNU?t=363).  This is one of the big shortcomings of Poloniex (constantly having to scroll is a nightmare), and a good opportunity for us to be better. 

And the good news is that it's an easy fix because it's really not necessary to see the chart and the order entry form at the same time.  So I would suggest a great improvement would be to move the order entry form down.  So in the vertical order book configuration, you can just move the history/ticker and My Orders up.

Of course, the horizontal configuration is a little trickier, but still very doable.   The order book in this configuration has a ton of empty space.  And so does the ticker/history.  If you narrow those 3 by removing the dead space, they should very easily fit on the same row just below the chart, with the order entry form below that. 

If we make this modification, we'll be the only crypto trading platform that I've seen where you can see the price chart, depth chart, order book, ticker/history, and "watch list" (markets) all at the same time.  That would be amazing!  What do you think about doing this, svk?

Thanks for the feedback!

I admit I miss having the history visible myself, so I'll try to make it visible again.

Would be interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about moving the buy/sell entry forms down below the history.

Reducing the vertical space taken by the charts slightly might be a good idea as well, especially on small screens.

[svk]

yeah, i tried to query our most liquid markets and nothing happened. what gives?

nobody cares about our illiquid markets and they are getting free advertising at the top of the list of markets. and for what?

the front market page is our prime real estate so put our best markets there man

I've said this before but I guess I need to say it again: there's no way to poll for most liquid markets!

The whole markets list is the way it is because of the limitations of the backend, there's just too many markets for it to keep track of in terms of top volume and I can't start polling every possible combination in order to find the most liquid markets. Perhaps if Cryptofresh (@roadscape) started tracking this and added an API for it I could use that, but for now this is the way it has to be. Of course depending on external resources is not great either and I've avoided doing that so far.

I'll try to revamp the layout slightly though, grouping by BASE currency like on Polo; and I'll add some more default markets.

[mint chocolate chip]

I read this thread quickly so maybe this has been already said but I think that ordering market by volume is also important. Poloniex way is very intuitive and also allows you to know directly when a coin is having more volume than usual.

Yes, as in Poloniex, my hope is to have markets grouped by primary assets: BTC, BTS, and a fiat (hopefully selectable by the user).  Within each group, the markets can be sorted by volume in terms of the primary asset.  So the idea is for BTC markets to be sorted by BTC volume, BTS markets sorted by BTS volume, and USD (just as an example) sorted by USD.

Now we're talking!!!

[tbone]

@svk:  I really like some of the new changes you made to the trading screen!  Overall, it has a even cleaner look than before.  Also, it's very helpful that more markets are visible at once.  And being able to see both the price and depth charts at the same time is nice.  The only drawback is now the history (aka ticker/tape, aka time & sales) is not visible without scrolling.  That's a biggie.  You really want to be able to see the charts, ticker and order book at the same time (see https://youtu.be/V0-slDuqZNU?t=363).  This is one of the big shortcomings of Poloniex (constantly having to scroll is a nightmare), and a good opportunity for us to be better. 

And the good news is that it's an easy fix because it's really not necessary to see the chart and the order entry form at the same time.  So I would suggest a great improvement would be to move the order entry form down.  So in the vertical order book configuration, you can just move the history/ticker and My Orders up.

Of course, the horizontal configuration is a little trickier, but still very doable.   The order book in this configuration has a ton of empty space.  And so does the ticker/history.  If you narrow those 3 by removing the dead space, they should very easily fit on the same row just below the chart, with the order entry form below that. 

If we make this modification, we'll be the only crypto trading platform that I've seen where you can see the price chart, depth chart, order book, ticker/history, and "watch list" (markets) all at the same time.  That would be amazing!  What do you think about doing this, svk?

[EstefanTT]

I read this thread quickly so maybe this has been already said but I think that ordering market by volume is also important. Poloniex way is very intuitive and also allows you to know directly when a coin is having more volume than usual.

Yes, as in Poloniex, my hope is to have markets grouped by primary assets: BTC, BTS, and a fiat (hopefully selectable by the user).  Within each group, the markets can be sorted by volume in terms of the primary asset.  So the idea is for BTC markets to be sorted by BTC volume, BTS markets sorted by BTS volume, and USD (just as an example) sorted by USD.

That could be great !

I don't think we have to feel ashamed by copying the cool stuff of poloniex. They did a great job, let's make the most of it.

I don't know if you see that but poloniex has a new movil version of his web page now. Check what they did to fit in the same page the charts and the market depth ... they copy us !!! They have a switch botton to switch from one to the other just like us ! Snicky bastards !!! ;p

[tbone]

I read this thread quickly so maybe this has been already said but I think that ordering market by volume is also important. Poloniex way is very intuitive and also allows you to know directly when a coin is having more volume than usual.

Yes, as in Poloniex, my hope is to have markets grouped by primary assets: BTC, BTS, and a fiat (hopefully selectable by the user).  Within each group, the markets can be sorted by volume in terms of the primary asset.  So the idea is for BTC markets to be sorted by BTC volume, BTS markets sorted by BTS volume, and USD (just as an example) sorted by USD.

[EstefanTT]

I read this thread quickly so maybe this has been already said but I think that ordering market by volume is also important. Poloniex way is very intuitive and also allows you to know directly when a coin is having more volume than usual.

[svk]

By the way the All Markets tab is being renamed to Find Markets in tomorrow's update.

The problem with displaying all markets like you say is that I have no way of knowing what those markets are, and in BTS we have literally thousands of possible markets so I can't poll them all to see which ones are active or not.

[tbone]

I feel, we can make an even simpler change to improve user experience and, hopefully, liquidity.

We have fairly active BTS:USD and BTS:CNY markets. But USD:CNY is completely dead, no one ever goes there. Why? Because it's close to impossible for a random user to stumble upon this market unless she or he explicitly wants to do so.

Also, there's nothing one can do with USD but sell it for BTS. You can't buy OBITS or OPEN.MUSE or BTC or anything else.

What if instead of single link "Market" leading to BTS:XXX market, we put several links like "Markets: BTS, BTC, USD, CNY"? Very simple change, but it may lead to creating and sustaining several active USD:XXX markets, what should immediately make USD much more attractive for everyone.

YES!  I was thinking about this and it finally occurred to me that the markets need to be grouped by the dominant assets.  Poloniex does something like this with their grouping of markets by BTC, XMR and USDT (see link below).  We should do something similar right away.  We can group by BTS, BTC, and USD markets (or whichever fiat is preferred by the user).  Then each group of markets can be sorted by the volume of the main asset, so the most relevant markets will be at the top of each group (again, see Poloniex screenshot).  This way of organizing the markets will be a HUGE improvement and should be done ASAP. 

I like this idea, so I'll probably implement something like it.

The new market API calls will help a lot because it will make it much easier to fetch some basic market stats. Right now I need to manually parse trade history data to construct market stats which is a pain in the ass and rather expensive in terms of network and cpu.

Unfortunately there's still no global market stats (top volume markets for example or a list of active markets) but I'll add some more default markets which combined with the above change should help a bit.

Fantastic @svk!  Poloniex uses some very helpful constructs.  Grouping by the major assets is huge.  Obviously it's a little trickier for us because in addition to BTC and BTS, we have USD, CNY and other fiats.  Whereas besides BTC and XMR, Poloniex only has USD.  What I would propose is to lay it out the way Poloniex has, but make the fiat heading a dropdown so the user can switch between USD, CNY, EUR, etc. 

If you could make each of the groups collapsible, and also let the user specify how many rows are visible when expanded, that is another very helpful thing Poloniex does.  Also, we need to display more rows.  It would help to reduce both the font size and the padding between rows. 

I highly recommend letting each group display ALL markets traded against that major asset, sorted by volume traded in that major asset.  And like Poloniex, if you could put a "show * only" checkbox at the top so the user can toggle between seeing all markets or just their starred ones, that would be very helpful. 

Now the 2 tabs at the top (currently "Favorite Markets" and "All Markets") can instead read "Primary Markets" and "Other Markets" where the Other Markets tab would display ALL markets that do not fall under the 3 main groups, and of course those markets can be limited to those starred by the user when that checkbox at the top is checked. 

By the way, I understand what you're saying about the API.  Sounds like those new calls will be a big help!

[svk]

I feel, we can make an even simpler change to improve user experience and, hopefully, liquidity.

We have fairly active BTS:USD and BTS:CNY markets. But USD:CNY is completely dead, no one ever goes there. Why? Because it's close to impossible for a random user to stumble upon this market unless she or he explicitly wants to do so.

Also, there's nothing one can do with USD but sell it for BTS. You can't buy OBITS or OPEN.MUSE or BTC or anything else.

What if instead of single link "Market" leading to BTS:XXX market, we put several links like "Markets: BTS, BTC, USD, CNY"? Very simple change, but it may lead to creating and sustaining several active USD:XXX markets, what should immediately make USD much more attractive for everyone.

YES!  I was thinking about this and it finally occurred to me that the markets need to be grouped by the dominant assets.  Poloniex does something like this with their grouping of markets by BTC, XMR and USDT (see link below).  We should do something similar right away.  We can group by BTS, BTC, and USD markets (or whichever fiat is preferred by the user).  Then each group of markets can be sorted by the volume of the main asset, so the most relevant markets will be at the top of each group (again, see Poloniex screenshot).  This way of organizing the markets will be a HUGE improvement and should be done ASAP. 

I like this idea, so I'll probably implement something like it.

The new market API calls will help a lot because it will make it much easier to fetch some basic market stats. Right now I need to manually parse trade history data to construct market stats which is a pain in the ass and rather expensive in terms of network and cpu.

Unfortunately there's still no global market stats (top volume markets for example or a list of active markets) but I'll add some more default markets which combined with the above change should help a bit.

[tbone]

We need the orderbook to show offers to trade your OPEN.ETH for OPEN.BTC via BTS as a bridge currency. Then liquidity for ETH:BTC would be at least as deep as the ETH:BTS & BTC:BTS markets.

I don't see how this will help.

OPEN.BTC:OPEN.ETH is at least as active as BTS:OPEN.ETH now. There are only 10 people holding OPEN.ETH, the markets are invisible to random user. Why is there so little activity with ETH? 1m+ (in ETH) volume on Polo vs ~120 on DEX. It's not that people are not trading, they just don't know they can trade ETH on DEX.

The problem as it relates to the GUI is two-fold.  First, as you say, people using the DEX are not seeing that market.  Second, many people just don't use the DEX to begin with because they feel lost.  Organizing the markets in an intelligent way will go a long way toward alleviating these issues.  And if we combine that with a) at least some basic liquidity measures and b) adding newly launched currencies that aren't trading on Poloniex, I think we'll really start getting some traction.  What are we waiting for?

[tbone]

We need the orderbook to show offers to trade your OPEN.ETH for OPEN.BTC via BTS as a bridge currency. Then liquidity for ETH:BTC would be at least as deep as the ETH:BTS & BTC:BTS markets.

This is a liquidity measure.  That's very important but this is the wrong thread for such discussion. 

[krondix]

We need the orderbook to show offers to trade your OPEN.ETH for OPEN.BTC via BTS as a bridge currency. Then liquidity for ETH:BTC would be at least as deep as the ETH:BTS & BTC:BTS markets.

I don't see how this will help.

OPEN.BTC:OPEN.ETH is at least as active as BTS:OPEN.ETH now. There are only 10 people holding OPEN.ETH, the markets are invisible to random user. Why is there so little activity with ETH? 1m+ (in ETH) volume on Polo vs ~120 on DEX. It's not that people are not trading, they just don't know they can trade ETH on DEX.

[tbone]

I feel, we can make an even simpler change to improve user experience and, hopefully, liquidity.

We have fairly active BTS:USD and BTS:CNY markets. But USD:CNY is completely dead, no one ever goes there. Why? Because it's close to impossible for a random user to stumble upon this market unless she or he explicitly wants to do so.

Also, there's nothing one can do with USD but sell it for BTS. You can't buy OBITS or OPEN.MUSE or BTC or anything else.

What if instead of single link "Market" leading to BTS:XXX market, we put several links like "Markets: BTS, BTC, USD, CNY"? Very simple change, but it may lead to creating and sustaining several active USD:XXX markets, what should immediately make USD much more attractive for everyone.

YES!  I was thinking about this and it finally occurred to me that the markets need to be grouped by the dominant assets.  Poloniex does something like this with their grouping of markets by BTC, XMR and USDT (see link below).  We should do something similar right away.  We can group by BTS, BTC, and USD markets (or whichever fiat is preferred by the user).  Then each group of markets can be sorted by the volume of the main asset, so the most relevant markets will be at the top of each group (again, see Poloniex screenshot).  This way of organizing the markets will be a HUGE improvement and should be done ASAP. 

[oldmine]

We need the orderbook to show offers to trade your OPEN.ETH for OPEN.BTC via BTS as a bridge currency. Then liquidity for ETH:BTC would be at least as deep as the ETH:BTS & BTC:BTS markets.

[krondix]

Regarding market volume, right now it's listed by asset volume which is not very useful at all when it comes to sorting in the markets tab on the trading page.  It should really be sorted by BTS, BTC, USD, or CNY volume, specified by the user.

Yes! Even better would be to have separate tabs for different currencies (like on Polo BTC, XMR, USDT). That way, people holding OPEN.BTC, for example, will be able to see relatively active OPEN.BTC:OPEN.ETH market. And people holding OPENMUSE will see big volume at OPENMUSE:OPEN.MUSE and exchange their assets.

And overall visibility of many non BTS markets will improve greatly.

[tbone]

It's a good idea, but I think having specialized exchange page is better, i.e. exchange.openledger.org, with pre-selected asset pairs (in this example, Openasset market and smartcoin market). If newbie want to buy bitshares, can we tell to him how to use wallet exchange in 1 min? No... we have to start with "what is IOU" first and how to find gateway and openassets and on and on... It's much easier to say, "go poloniex.com"

We have to be simple to sell our products.

I think both are important.  Don't forget, although some specialized front ends are in the works, most will not appear immediately.   And when they do appear, some will use the current wallet as is, but just re-skin it and host it on their domain. 

OpenLedger is the best example.  They have the most users and they use the default wallet.  Maybe that will change.  But in the meantime we need a quick solution for a better, more intuitive UI so we can gain and keep ACTIVE users, otherwise much of the efforts are wasted. 

I think we should do this immediately.  It wouldn't take a whole lot.  @svk: do you have thoughts on this?

I totally agree. I think when the new APIs added, we will have "Featured market" by volume, by the way.

I always appreciate for your great inputs.

Can you explain a little more what you mean by "featured market by volume"?  Also, how is that feature related to the API?

Regarding market volume, right now it's listed by asset volume which is not very useful at all when it comes to sorting in the markets tab on the trading page.  It should really be sorted by BTS, BTC, USD, or CNY volume, specified by the user.   

By the way, I'm glad to help where I can.  Actually, I've been meaning to offer additional GUI input since the last major round of changes, but didn't have the chance to go through and type it up at the time .  Then it kind of fell off my radar.  Will try to pick that back up, although organizing the markets properly would probably have a huge impact by itself.

[krondix]

Yes, but there are maybe 10 people total who had ever opened USD:OBITS market. I've tried to hold some buy/sell orders at good price on several non BTS markets and no one filled them.

Just compare activity in BTS:USD, BTS:BTC and USD:BTC markets. No one knows about USD:BTC because it's hidden in GUI, you have to manually type it in the All Markets.

[openledger]

I feel, we can make an even simpler change to improve user experience and, hopefully, liquidity.

We have fairly active BTS:USD and BTS:CNY markets. But USD:CNY is completely dead, no one ever goes there. Why? Because it's close to impossible for a random user to stumble upon this market unless she or he explicitly wants to do so.

Also, there's nothing one can do with USD but sell it for BTS. You can't buy OBITS or OPEN.MUSE or BTC or anything else.

What if instead of single link "Market" leading to BTS:XXX market, we put several links like "Markets: BTS, BTC, USD, CNY"? Very simple change, but it may lead to creating and sustaining several active USD:XXX markets, what should immediately make USD much more attractive for everyone.

Who is to say yopu cant buy OBITS, OPEN.MUSE or BTC with USD. Its alla question of setinig of some buy orders on each market and tell aboyut it, and its live

[krondix]

I feel, we can make an even simpler change to improve user experience and, hopefully, liquidity.

We have fairly active BTS:USD and BTS:CNY markets. But USD:CNY is completely dead, no one ever goes there. Why? Because it's close to impossible for a random user to stumble upon this market unless she or he explicitly wants to do so.

Also, there's nothing one can do with USD but sell it for BTS. You can't buy OBITS or OPEN.MUSE or BTC or anything else.

What if instead of single link "Market" leading to BTS:XXX market, we put several links like "Markets: BTS, BTC, USD, CNY"? Very simple change, but it may lead to creating and sustaining several active USD:XXX markets, what should immediately make USD much more attractive for everyone.

[clayop]

It's a good idea, but I think having specialized exchange page is better, i.e. exchange.openledger.org, with pre-selected asset pairs (in this example, Openasset market and smartcoin market). If newbie want to buy bitshares, can we tell to him how to use wallet exchange in 1 min? No... we have to start with "what is IOU" first and how to find gateway and openassets and on and on... It's much easier to say, "go poloniex.com"

We have to be simple to sell our products.

I think both are important.  Don't forget, although some specialized front ends are in the works, most will not appear immediately.   And when they do appear, some will use the current wallet as is, but just re-skin it and host it on their domain. 

OpenLedger is the best example.  They have the most users and they use the default wallet.  Maybe that will change.  But in the meantime we need a quick solution for a better, more intuitive UI so we can gain and keep ACTIVE users, otherwise much of the efforts are wasted. 

I think we should do this immediately.  It wouldn't take a whole lot.  @svk: do you have thoughts on this?

I totally agree. I think when the new APIs added, we will have "Featured market" by volume, by the way.

I always appreciate for your great inputs.

[tbone]

It's a good idea, but I think having specialized exchange page is better, i.e. exchange.openledger.org, with pre-selected asset pairs (in this example, Openasset market and smartcoin market). If newbie want to buy bitshares, can we tell to him how to use wallet exchange in 1 min? No... we have to start with "what is IOU" first and how to find gateway and openassets and on and on... It's much easier to say, "go poloniex.com"

We have to be simple to sell our products.

I think both are important.  Don't forget, although some specialized front ends are in the works, most will not appear immediately.   And when they do appear, some will use the current wallet as is, but just re-skin it and host it on their domain. 

OpenLedger is the best example.  They have the most users and they use the default wallet.  Maybe that will change.  But in the meantime we need a quick solution for a better, more intuitive UI so we can gain and keep ACTIVE users, otherwise much of the efforts are wasted. 

I think we should do this immediately.  It wouldn't take a whole lot.  @svk: do you have thoughts on this?

[clayop]

It's a good idea, but I think having specialized exchange page is better, i.e. exchange.openledger.org, with pre-selected asset pairs (in this example, Openasset market and smartcoin market). If newbie want to buy bitshares, can we tell to him how to use wallet exchange in 1 min? No... we have to start with "what is IOU" first and how to find gateway and openassets and on and on... It's much easier to say, "go poloniex.com"

We have to be simple to sell our products.

[tbone]

The DEX has a serious flaw that is killing user adoption.  It is simply way too confusing with all of the different versions of the same assets (primarily BTC, USD, CNY), and all of the associated different versions of the same markets.  It's a major mess and I can't prove it but I would bet my life that adoption and usage are suffering dramatically. 

But there's a relatively easy fix.  What if we had the concept of "primary" and "secondary" markets...and each registrar could specify for their own users which markets fall into which category.  So right now on the trading page we have 2 markets tabs: 1) My Markets and 2) All Markets.  What I'm proposing instead is that we could have a "Markets" header with 3 tabs labeled: 1) Favorites, 2) Primary, 3) Secondary.  The "Primary" markets would be a short list of markets designated as primary by the registrar.  "Secondary" markets would be everything else.  And "Favorites" would obviously be those starred by the user.  This way the list of markets can be "cleaned up" so it's not confusing for users. 

This solution would be very easy to implement yet would help improve adoption, and hopefully inch us a tiny bit further into the adoption/liquidity virtuous cycle we're painstakingly striving toward.  Thoughts?