Yes sorry, I'm new to trading, thanks for explanation, I used arbitrage wrong.

It doesn't help establish peg though. If there are 10x more people that want to short than want to own BitAssets then it will trade below the peg.

Edit: Unless you do what they do now. Even better if they introduce interest to attract demand for owning BitAssets

No problem,  this is why THIS inefficient market trades below the peg, if it was the other way round it would trade above. But please guys... do not kill this project by banning the market, like you are doing now. It is soooo unnecessary. This project proved to work last week. I was really excited! Now I can only pray that bytemaster wakes up. If everybody shows him that he is wrong by governing the market, than I have hope he strips this shit regulation out of the code again and makes us all multi-millionaires.

Quote from: okidoki on September 03, 2014, 12:01:38 am

The only problem is, that by halting the market bytemaster is making the shareprice go down... which is shitty for investors... I know that bytemaster is brilliant in many ways... I am simply disappointed that he thinks regulation helps to make the market move where he wants it to be...

I dont believe he is doing it due to regulation.  I think it may have just been a development error, this is trial and error remember.  I would like to hear his opinion, ill message him, and can some people do the same or get him to answer please.

He IS the regulator. No government forces him. He is the the governor of bitshares-x. Guys, please wake up and let us go back to free markets. PLEASE!

Quote from: okidoki on September 03, 2014, 12:01:38 am

The only problem is, that by halting the market bytemaster is making the shareprice go down... which is shitty for investors... I know that bytemaster is brilliant in many ways... I am simply disappointed that he thinks regulation helps to make the market move where he wants it to be...

I think your stuff is wrong.

The problem is there are consistently more shorts than longs.

So at 0.9 you weren't underpaying for a BitUSD you were paying the likely average price even 3 months from now.

Traders would not make it trade closer to the peg they would only tighten up that $0.85-0.95 trading range

Introducing the price feed that limits shorts (or a collateral system) does help the peg.

The problem is that there is very little demand @1-1  (I.e a dead market hence the need for interest.)

Sorry oasis... it does not work like this... I can make money if I buy at 0.85. Because doing the arbitrage costs money... especially in a still illiquid market. the more liquid it gets, the less it costs me, the less spread is needed, until it is exactly 1:1 in a superliquid market with small bid/ask spreads and low exchange commissions. But if you do not allow the market to start working you kill it like now.

The market worked just fine in the beginning... but by putting in these childish regulations now you do not have a market anymore, until you get rid of this government/regulation stuff... The good thing is that bytemaster, our governor, can simply get rid of this regulation stuff and make the market free again. If he does not do it, he will kill this project he worked so hard for.

Quote from: okidoki on September 02, 2014, 11:35:21 pm

Quote from: Gentso1 on September 02, 2014, 08:31:37 pm

their is money to be had if people short  look in the 33-35 btsx/bitUSD range their a a few orders for a couple of g's.

I do agree though the market is dead now. Not sure if we need more incentive to make bitUSD have more value(interest?) or a better matching system. I think it's the matching system.
In the picture below the buy is willing to pay 31.55 btsx per bitUSD and the seller is only wanting 28.5715 btsx per bitUSD.......Someone tell me I am reading this wrong so I will feel better

I said that all along... Government regulation kills the markets, but Bytemaster did not even respond... now we have this regulation-sh...t implemented and we see the results... no market whatsoever and everybody frustrated stopping putting orders. Please get rid of this regulation and let the market be free again... I hope that now not even more regulations will be passed, like force converting of some of the bitsharesx holdings to bitlongs and bitshorts... This would mean forcefully crashing the value of this endeavour... Just let the market participants freely trade and make arbitrage profits. PPPLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEAAASSEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Sir okidoki , what are you referring to as government regulation?  How has Bytemaster complied with the regulation and killed the market.  Moreso it is probably a function of GUI development and coding backend, not government regulation.

Will you please next type use bold, or blue, red is hard on the eyes.

Great post though 

In this case Bytemaster is playing the regulator/government, he and his team have established that the system does not clear orders at another free market price which the market wants to give it... He is forcing that only orders are cleared at a price established by the delegates. So he basically has eliminated arbitrage profits, effectively banning the market makers. I thought than in this cryptoworld we had free market people? It is absolutely fine for a market to trade the bitUSD at other prices below or above the 1:1. If you buy any other asset bitGLD, the market should treat a bitUSD as 1 USD. If the price differs they can earn money with the bitGLD position (if bitGLD rises)+ Arbitrage profits for the bitUSD, because the price of bitUSD is determined by the price of bitshares... if someone does ignore this they stand to loose money, and someone else to earn something.

If I cannot earn money buying bitUSD cheap <1 USD, 1 will not buy it. That simple. So that is why the volume has halted... But I think sooner or later bytemaster will understand it. Perhaps it takes 2 weeks of a dead market, but ultimately he will see that the market was a lot more vivid before he put regulations in place.

their is money to be had if people short  look in the 33-35 btsx/bitUSD range their a a few orders for a couple of g's.

I do agree though the market is dead now. Not sure if we need more incentive to make bitUSD have more value(interest?) or a better matching system. I think it's the matching system.
In the picture below the buy is willing to pay 31.55 btsx per bitUSD and the seller is only wanting 28.5715 btsx per bitUSD.......Someone tell me I am reading this wrong so I will feel better

I said that all along... Government regulation kills the markets, but Bytemaster did not even respond... now we have this regulation-sh...t implemented and we see the results... no market whatsoever and everybody frustrated stopping putting orders. Please get rid of this regulation and let the market be free again... I hope that now not even more regulations will be passed, like force converting of some of the bitsharesx holdings to bitlongs and bitshorts... This would mean forcefully crashing the value of this endeavour... Just let the market participants freely trade and make arbitrage profits. PPPLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEAAASSEEEEEEEEEE!!!

My first impression is this is totally unnecessary.  Bob knows he has to buy back that dollar sometime, and there will be a lot of Bobs.  Alice knows if bob runs out of collateral he is forced to buy it back at fair price.

It also gives too much power to the price feed.  I wouldn't use the price feed for anything other than eliminating new shorts below the feed price.

Agreed... this is too much power for the price feed. Also one has to take into mind that the price feed will not be updated each second... so if there is a sudden drop n the price of bitsharesx the whole market gets screwed up.

Please let the market move freely. Let people allow to make money with arbitrage. If there is no money to be made with arbitrage than people will not look at that market.

Government solutions and regulation never work. Even if it sounds reasonable at first sight.

What would be great is having an BTSX:bitUSD market at bter.com. This way arbitrage would get a lot easier. One can buy bitUSD in the bitasharesx client and then sell it on bter for more bitshares and repeat this until prices are the same. The people who buy the bitUSD at bter can sell them for USD. Other people could arbitrage selling bitsharesX for USD and buying the bitUSD necessary for buying shares if the bitUSD price for the shares is lower...

Quote from: mas on August 29, 2014, 04:52:09 pm

Please focus on fixing bugs first, give the system time to mature.

Limiting the downside to 90% will inhibit price discovery and free markets.

I believe Bitshares is supposed to operate as a free market, without any outside interference. This scheme will create a feeling of a Bitshares central bank that is monitoring and controlling the system.

What will help the system grow will be making arbitrage easier. If there is easy creation of arbitrage bots and automated market makers, then this should work.

Many financial brokers offer CFD, cash for difference instruments, which operate exactly like the bitassets, except the brokers act as a market maker in them, and uses underlying financial markets to hedge the instruments. If we make hedging easy, then automated market makers and arbitrage bots should fulfill that role.

Apologize for lack of understanding and knowledge, been casually following this forum, and do hold BTSX.

Against this suggestion.

I agree with this too, but i also understand the anxiety that if we miss the opportunity make people believe that 1 bitusd = 1 usd then it might be lost for ever. Is it worth discussing this proposal as a plan b to be implemented only if near parity is not reached by xx/xx/xxxx or if the bitusd falls below xx usd? Just having it in place and tested, ready to go at a moments notice could help them aline.

If it falls too low than do your arbitrage and make money on the spot or let someone else do it... if money can be made somebody will do it at some point... earnings have just to be interesting enough. I do not see a death spiral between bitUSD going lower and bitsharesX-price falling as a consequence until both are 0