I agree that a rebrand could be helpful, and calling it simply DEX is a great way to hammer home what it is. BitShares was quite confusing.
How about a community poll on rebranding to DEX? Its such a great name Im surprised there isnt a crypto out there already using it.
dex.openledger.info is so much better than bitshares.openledger.info
How about a community poll on rebranding to DEX? Its such a great name Im surprised there isnt a crypto out there already using it.
Ideally, someone like abit or xeroc will need to step up
How about a community poll on rebranding to DEX? Its such a great name Im surprised there isnt a crypto out there already using it.
I agree, it's quite strange that the name DEX is still unclaimed.
I've planned to add a poll after some initial feedback is gathered, just to avoid knee-jerk reactions.
It's a tough and costly decision, but I think the opportunity is ideal and the name is just perfect for us.
Regarding the costs of rebranding (e.g. compensating people for domain names already bought) I think it should be covered by all of us, i.e. by a worker proposal.
It's an investment that has some risk associated with it but the benefits could be enormous.
Look what's happened to Crypti and Darkcoin. They took the risk and it payed off.
It seems Nxt is going to make a similar move pretty soon.
It's risky as it can further deepen the split in this community and become a distraction but on the other hand if we manage to pull it off efficiency it can become a truly fresh start and something that heals the wounds. At the same time we could also eliminate our dependence on Bitsapphire hosting this forum and finally move to some other, more modern forum platform.
We've been dumped after a long and difficult relationship. Now we need a tangible change that brings new energy and motivation.
If you missed it, Dan has not abandoned Bitshares, but has just moved the experimentation to another blockchain and has suggested in other posts when the results of those experiments yield positive results, then those things can be considered for introduction/inclusion into our current blockchain. Many of the features do revolve around new ways to provide liquidity to the markets.
2. Post Nov 5th.
2. Post Nov 5th.
What is supposed to happen on this date?
2. Post Nov 5th.
What is supposed to happen on this date?
While I think bitshares best current and near future selling point is "The Dex", fact is Bitshares can be so much more than just a dex. It may seem like the right move now to rename, but it would be pigeon holing bitshares when it starts to expand it's feature set.
1. No matter if Dan Larimer has indeed dumped most of his stake or not, he is gone. The market cap has surely suffered because of that but overall it's a good thing. It feels to me like a toxic relationship has finally come to an end.
For me, on the intellectual level Dan is one of the brightest people in the industry, but as a business partner and a community leader he is quite destructive.
Now it's time to move on: enjoy the good aspect (i.e. Dan's genius we inherited in the Graphene code) and let go of the bad aspect (i.e. play the victim and blame Dan for being disloyal to us).
Research carried out by the Carnegie Institute of Technology shows that 85 percent of your financial success is due to skills in “human engineering,” your personality and ability to communicate, negotiate, and lead. Shockingly, only 15 percent is due to technical knowledge. Additionally, Nobel Prize winning Israeli-American psychologist, Daniel Kahneman, found that people would rather do business with a person they like and trust rather than someone they don’t, even if the likeable person is offering a lower quality product or service at a higher price.
These changes however would require another pitch-fork, similar to that of 1.0 > 2.0, because the base functions are too radically different from our current code base. The steem experiment likely will reveal its potential successes/failures by September.. if what Dan offered previously is still at all feasible at that time, then I would list this as a pending 3rd event to coincide with a rebranding.
While I think bitshares best current and near future selling point is "The Dex", fact is Bitshares can be so much more than just a dex. It may seem like the right move now to rename, but it would be pigeon holing bitshares when it starts to expand it's feature set.
I see nothing wrong with the name BitShares, I'd like to leave it alone. The name itself screams what we do. "bit" saying something to the geeky minded that we are a digital company of some kind and "shares" which says company shares to me. It's a place for businesses to go.
Making rash decisions right now because the market cap sits is not a good idea. BitShares Munich is out there (as you can see everywhere) striking up relationships, deals, partners and bringing investors now for marketing and they LOVE our name.
I see nothing wrong with the name BitShares, I'd like to leave it alone. The name itself screams what we do. "bit" saying something to the geeky minded that we are a digital company of some kind and "shares" which says company shares to me. It's a place for businesses to go.+5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
Making rash decisions right now because the market cap sits is not a good idea. BitShares Munich is out there (as you can see everywhere) striking up relationships, deals, partners and bringing investors now for marketing and they LOVE our name.
+5% +5% +5% +5%
I am against a rebranding... BitShares has an excellent brand and logo. Who would want to start from scratch?Come on, we are talking about several million market cap and you are worried about a logo whose good replacement might cost at most a few thousand USD?
Making rash decisions right now because the market cap sits is not a good idea.I'm suggesting a name change not because of the low market cap.
I am against a rebranding... BitShares has an excellent brand and logo. Who would want to start from scratch?Come on, we are talking about several million market cap and you are worried about a logo whose good replacement might cost at most a few thousand USD?
The logo is not bad, I agree but the problem is the name, not the logo.
Every single marketing professional on this forum has told us that the name is a nightmare for marketing purposes, both in terms of wider consumer adoption and for the purpose of business pitches.
Regrading the "excellent brand" - at this stage we have no brand to speak of.
Bitcoin has not had any innovation for 7 years and look where it is...
Bitcoin has not had any innovation for 7 years and look where it is...
You are comparing apples and oranges. Bitcoin is successful despite its lack of innovation. That is how powerful the first mover advantage is.
Counterpoint to your argument: Ethereum has innovated a lot and isn't stopping yet and look at its marketcap rise.
Bitcoin has not had any innovation for 7 years and look where it is...
You are comparing apples and oranges. Bitcoin is successful despite its lack of innovation. That is how powerful the first mover advantage is.
Counterpoint to your argument: Ethereum has innovated a lot and isn't stopping yet and look at its marketcap rise.
Besides first mover advantage it's because people want a lot stability & certainty from the pure digital currencies like BTC, LTC, PPC etc. so their lack of innovation (Change) is often a positive.
The decentralized companies who aim to bring something to the market other than a limited, immutable crypto-currency have to be more innovative, with additional revenue generating (in future) products/apps in order to increase their value. (However for both, increased utility, accessibility and third party integration often adds more value than more expensive development work. eg. Payment processor/exchange/bank/Azure integration etc.)
Bitcoin has not had any innovation for 7 years and look where it is...
You are comparing apples and oranges. Bitcoin is successful despite its lack of innovation. That is how powerful the first mover advantage is.
Counterpoint to your argument: Ethereum has innovated a lot and isn't stopping yet and look at its marketcap rise.
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
Welcome back, Jakub! Could you comment on this post please: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21230.msg288507.html#msg288507
You bring up some interesting points.
I agree that we need a replacement for bm. Someone who has a vision and can be a driving force, towards that vision. However, I think that vision should be mostly non-technical. Graphene provides us with a very stable codebase. The blockchain is ticking along nicely. We have a few items in the queue that should be finished, like free transactions (see above), but I don't see any major changes being required.
Rebranding is a tricky subject. DEX has a much better ring to it than BitShares, IMO. In my understanding, the origin of the name BitShares is the connection from BitCoin to company shares, putting an emphasis on the difference between currency and stake. Depending on what happens to BTC after the reward halving, it might be a good idea to get rid of the "Bit" in the name altogether.
I also see the built-in exchange as the most powerful asset that we currently have. SmartCoins are practically dead. Currency tokens are having a difficult time trying to gain traction. But the exchange just works nicely, it's fast and secure!
Since I'm very sceptical about Steem, I'd strongly recommend to not rush to integrate ideas from Steem into our codebase. IMO Steem is going to crash heavily after July 4th. It has nothing to offer for us.
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
Yeah, stealth is ok as well... although privacy concerned people would use a username like "bgd67eydh" to park their stuff... In bitcoin addresses are also visible and are used... if you use a handle like "kenCode" everybody knows it is you... but it was your choice. Everybody knows what Satoshi has in Bitcoin, but does somebody know who he is? No.
How much is missing in Stealth in terms of months? (If you say money is missing, if there is no money and it does not arrive, then perhaps never?)
Besides first mover advantage it's because people want a lot stability & certainty from the pure digital currencies like BTC, LTC, PPC etc. so their lack of innovation (Change) is often a positive.
The decentralized companies who aim to bring something to the market other than a limited, immutable crypto-currency have to be more innovative, with additional revenue generating (in future) products/apps in order to increase their value. (However for both, increased utility, accessibility and third party integration often adds more value than more expensive development work. eg. Payment processor/exchange/bank/Azure integration etc.)
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
Welcome back, Jakub! Could you comment on this post please: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21230.msg288507.html#msg288507I've already communicated with abit and all issues regarding his potential access to BSIP10 worker funds are settled for now.
Perhaps this will be easier after November 5th when there is (presumably) less sell pressure from the merger to compete with sell pressure from worker proposals. Although, if someone was willing to defer selling until after November 5th (and say wanted to keep the majority of revenue in BTS), then BitShares already provides the ability to pay from the worker in vested form such that it cannot be sold prior to November 5th. So if a credible developer was willing to take such a deal for something that added value to the platform, there should be no reason to delay that work until after November 5th (other than anti-spending zealotry).
I am against a rebranding... BitShares has an excellent brand and logo. Who would want to start from scratch?Come on, we are talking about several million market cap and you are worried about a logo whose good replacement might cost at most a few thousand USD?
The logo is not bad, I agree but the problem is the name, not the logo.
Every single marketing professional on this forum has told us that the name is a nightmare for marketing purposes, both in terms of wider consumer adoption and for the purpose of business pitches.
Regrading the "excellent brand" - at this stage we have no brand to speak of.
Besides first mover advantage it's because people want a lot stability & certainty from the pure digital currencies like BTC, LTC, PPC etc. so their lack of innovation (Change) is often a positive.
Good point.The decentralized companies who aim to bring something to the market other than a limited, immutable crypto-currency have to be more innovative, with additional revenue generating (in future) products/apps in order to increase their value. (However for both, increased utility, accessibility and third party integration often adds more value than more expensive development work. eg. Payment processor/exchange/bank/Azure integration etc.)
Right. Yes third-party development is incredibly valuable. And it is important for any changes to the blockchain to not be such that they feel it is impossible to invest time and resources building on this platform and ecosystem. I think there is still a lot of innovation that can be added to BitShares to make it more appealing that doesn't conflict with the work of third-parties.
One is not really a change to the blockchain at all, so it can even be thought of as a third-party innovation I suppose. That is side-chains. To make the Decentralized part in DEX really meaningful, we shouldn't have the same counterparty risk for traders of BTC and other altcoins as centralized exchanges do. That is the situation we currently have with OPEN.X assets. Ideally such a sidechain mechanism would be integrated with the blockchain in the sense that the witnesses would be the dynamic multisig group holding the reserves backing each SIDE.X asset. Initially, it would be smart to support at least the Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains.
The second innovation is margin trading. This one is a little difficult to implement (depending on how its done). But it would add a lot of value to our DEX.
There is lots to be done, the question is: can we get the funding necessary to do it? Perhaps this will be easier after November 5th when there is (presumably) less sell pressure from the merger to compete with sell pressure from worker proposals. Although, if someone was willing to defer selling until after November 5th (and say wanted to keep the majority of revenue in BTS), then BitShares already provides the ability to pay from the worker in vested form such that it cannot be sold prior to November 5th. So if a credible developer was willing to take such a deal for something that added value to the platform, there should be no reason to delay that work until after November 5th (other than anti-spending zealotry).If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
I hope you focus first on getting GUI support for just blinded transfers. Hiding metadata as well is a trickier problem to do right. Focusing efforts first on just hiding the amounts makes the most sense. That approach means it is far less likely for funds to be lost, but you still need a good automated memo key backup strategy (I have written about this publicly before). After that is in place, better stealth (that hides sender metadata as well) can come later. I have ideas for how this can be done without risk of funds lost using on-blockchain decentralized coin mixing using the RingCT cryptographic primitive.
Rebranding is a tricky subject. DEX has a much better ring to it than BitShares, IMO. In my understanding, the origin of the name BitShares is the connection from BitCoin to company shares, putting an emphasis on the difference between currency and stake. Depending on what happens to BTC after the reward halving, it might be a good idea to get rid of the "Bit" in the name altogether.DEX is a generic name, which in our case makes a perfect sense: our blockchain is in fact a generic decentralized exchange, on top of which other entities (such as OpenLedger) can build their businesses.
I also see the built-in exchange as the most powerful asset that we currently have. SmartCoins are practically dead. Currency tokens are having a difficult time trying to gain traction. But the exchange just works nicely, it's fast and secure!
If you missed it, Dan has not abandoned Bitshares, but has just moved the experimentation to another blockchain and has suggested in other posts when the results of those experiments yield positive results, then those things can be considered for introduction/inclusion into our current blockchain. Many of the features do revolve around new ways to provide liquidity to the markets.
I've known Dan long enough to be able to make my own judgement.
For me he did abandon BitShares (in different aspects: mentally, as a stake-holder and as a leader) and I am quite happy about that.
Without him there would be no BTS but now, as he's gone, BTS has a better chance to evolve and succeed.
With him "leading" we were stuck in a limbo.
Ethereum has a big market cap because for years everybody was fantasizing about what this could become. but in reality it is not used for anything right now... and as there is almost no scalability I think it will never be used for anything but speculation...
Lisk is a lot smarter in several things than Ethereum and it might be used someday for something.
Also Bitcoin is on top because of its liquidity. Chinese cannot enter and exit Bitshares without moving the price at this point. They use it for protection from devaluation from CNY... but you cannot pump even a million USD in Bitshares without doubling the market cap. So for this type of usage they have to use Bitcoin until volume and market cap goes up for BitShares.
Perhaps this will be easier after November 5th when there is (presumably) less sell pressure from the merger to compete with sell pressure from worker proposals. Although, if someone was willing to defer selling until after November 5th (and say wanted to keep the majority of revenue in BTS), then BitShares already provides the ability to pay from the worker in vested form such that it cannot be sold prior to November 5th. So if a credible developer was willing to take such a deal for something that added value to the platform, there should be no reason to delay that work until after November 5th (other than anti-spending zealotry).
Can you please elaborate on the type of sell pressure regarding to Nov. 5th? Have they gotten shares all the time and after this date they do not get anything anymore, or will they get access to all the shares Nov. 5th at once?
Perhaps this will be easier after November 5th when there is (presumably) less sell pressure from the merger to compete with sell pressure from worker proposals. Although, if someone was willing to defer selling until after November 5th (and say wanted to keep the majority of revenue in BTS), then BitShares already provides the ability to pay from the worker in vested form such that it cannot be sold prior to November 5th. So if a credible developer was willing to take such a deal for something that added value to the platform, there should be no reason to delay that work until after November 5th (other than anti-spending zealotry).
Can you please elaborate on the type of sell pressure regarding to Nov. 5th? Have they gotten shares all the time and after this date they do not get anything anymore, or will they get access to all the shares Nov. 5th at once?
They have been gradually vesting over two years. Some people claim them as they come free and immediately sell them generating downward pressure on the price like Bitcoin mining fees. Others have yet to claim any of them, or do so in infrequent chunks. After two years they will all be vested and available to sell or spend. Right now, about 80% are already out there, with the last 20% slowly releasing between now and November 5.
No doubt a sidechain or a kind of automatic multisignature wallet managment for btc be safe.btc should be a target to be truly decentrilised, of course i dont want to screw with openledger they have open asset n it works pretty good n.they help us to make things happen....probably n start a bull run n make 30x the nowdays value it will be easy to.funding.....
A complete rebrand would be good although thats a lot of artwork and editting. You'll have "bitshares" mentioned all over the place etc.If the rebrand moves the market cap by just 10%, all this effort will pay off.
Epic!I am against a rebranding... BitShares has an excellent brand and logo. Who would want to start from scratch?Come on, we are talking about several million market cap and you are worried about a logo whose good replacement might cost at most a few thousand USD?
The logo is not bad, I agree but the problem is the name, not the logo.
Every single marketing professional on this forum has told us that the name is a nightmare for marketing purposes, both in terms of wider consumer adoption and for the purpose of business pitches.
Regrading the "excellent brand" - at this stage we have no brand to speak of.
Yes. Here are some brand names that have similar nightmare problems:
Kleenex
Apple
IBM (or any other 3 letter name)
Verizon
Tesla
JPMorgan (or any other founder's name)
Yahoo
United
We need a brand name that instantly communicates to the uninitiated consumer that we are likable, reliable, cool, and provide everything you have always wanted but were afraid to ask -- all in one household name.
How aboutIndustrialStrengthReplacementForTheEntireFreakingWorldFinancialSystem
FeaturingStableAndIncorruptiblyHonestMoneyAndOtherInnnovativeFinancialAssetsYouCantGetAnywhereElse!TM
The meaning and connotations of a brand name are what you associate with it by a well funded brand building campaign.
With enough money, I could even make the name "Stan" into a beloved household word.
:)
If APPLE MADE IT WHY NOT BITSTAN!
THIS!!!Ethereum has a big market cap because for years everybody was fantasizing about what this could become. but in reality it is not used for anything right now... and as there is almost no scalability I think it will never be used for anything but speculation...
I partially agree with this, but I also think it is foolishly too confident of a statement. I have my own problems with Ethereum's design. But it is important to remember that Ethereum is a moving target. They are actually spending funds to innovate (admittedly that is easier to do when their holders are dumping their asset to oblivion). The Ethereum devs are doing research on improving scalability, and they currently have the capital to sustain that. I think it is foolish to discount the possibility that they might succeed in changing their designs in the future to fix scalability problems.Lisk is a lot smarter in several things than Ethereum and it might be used someday for something.
I have strong opinions on platforms like Lisk. They are doing it all wrong IMHO.
If you are interested, first read Dan's post: https://steemit.com/lisk/@ dan/why-lisk-is-inferior-to-ethereum
and then read my comment on another similar project (Rise) here: https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@ liondani/rise-crowdsale-is-open#@ arhag/re-liondani-rise-crowdsale-is-open-20160602t145546425z
(Again get rid of the spaces after the @ sign. Damn this forum's buggy @ mentions implementation!)Also Bitcoin is on top because of its liquidity. Chinese cannot enter and exit Bitshares without moving the price at this point. They use it for protection from devaluation from CNY... but you cannot pump even a million USD in Bitshares without doubling the market cap. So for this type of usage they have to use Bitcoin until volume and market cap goes up for BitShares.
You are talking about liquidity of the BTS token. Sure that isn't very liquid but ultimately I don't think that liquidity is the main issue. The bigger issue is the lack of liquidity in the markets on our DEX for tokens like smartcoins and other UIA assets. So how do we bootstrap liquidity? First, the platform must be attractive enough for traders to use. Why are traders not using the DEX? That is something we need to figure out.
The truth is that, despite what people in the cryptocurrency crowd say, decentralization is not valuable enough to them to put up with a product that is not as good as what they currently use. We need to figure out what those deficiencies are from their point of view, and fix them. Is it the UI? I really don't know, I'm not a trader, but let's find out what actual traders do prefer and change it to that. Is the lack of margin trading? If we are confident that is the real reason for lack of adoption, then maybe we should adopt that feature. But we better be confident, because it is a lot of work to build that feature properly and I would rather leave that for much later (hopefully after some gain in marketcap). The product needs to be as nice to use for a trader as their current centralized exchange and ON TOP of that it needs to be decentralized. Otherwise, they will stick what what they know and are comfortable with.
Or maybe they recognize that the decentralization isn't really all that decentralized for their purposes. This goes back to the counterparty risk with UIA assets (like OPEN.BTC) that I talked about earlier. Sidechains are the technological solution to that problem.
But even if we fix all those problems, it is still not enough to pull them away from what they are comfortable with. You need to give them some incentive to take the leap. That is where subsidizing liquidity of some key markets comes in. This is necessary to motivate traders to move, in mass, passed that hump everyone experiences when trying something new and different from what they are used to. If many of them move to our DEX and start tightly trading assets to capture some of those rewards, the liquidity will greatly improve and so other traders will be more interested to use a DEX with liquid markets. Once the market is bootstrapped and there is liquidity, the subsidies are weaned off and reasonable market percentage fees are added in so the DAC can make some revenue. Hopefully inertia continues to keep liquidity fairly strong and people still continue to use the DEX because it has liquid markets and is decentralized. Of course to do this requires both implementing the liquidity features in the blockchain (not super difficult to do) and more importantly (and more difficulty) getting BTS holders to accept funding it from the reserve pool.
I nominate arhag as leader if xeroc isn't interested.
I don't think we need to rebrand BitShares as such, partly because I don't like rebranding in general (wastes precious time, sends a conflicting message, and usually leads me to suspect it's being done because of mistakes made in the past) and partly because I don't think it is a bad name.
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
couldnt you share the role with xeroc?....I follow you on steemit n you have a vision manI nominate arhag as leader if xeroc isn't interested.
Thank you. But too much of a time commitment for me. So I have to reject that nomination.
couldnt you share the role with xeroc?....I follow you on steemit n you have a vision manI nominate arhag as leader if xeroc isn't interested.
Thank you. But too much of a time commitment for me. So I have to reject that nomination.
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
I'd like to offer the community my perspective
[...]
For me, decentralization means that we can survive when a leader is gone, but still we cannot move forward without having one.
[..]
we should definitely scrap the name "BitShares" and replace it with something more neutral (e.g. "DEX")
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
All that's left of BM is his "promise" to offer worker proposals (in some undefined point in time) for the migration of his STEEM inventions *if* they prove to be successful.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.
He has no plans to offer any worker proposals, apart from emergency fixes.
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.
For me this is enough to call it "gone".
For a while now people have been trying to figure out why there is so little trading volume on the DEX. I've traded forex and stocks for over 10 years and have written dozens of trading bots (Expert Advisors) in the mql language. I've turned $2,500 into $50,000 in 6 months. I've also turned $50,000 into $20,000 in 6 months as well. I think I have a pretty good idea of what traders need and expect from a platform.
1. Shorting in the DEX is cumbersome and confusing
I recently tried to short using the DEX. I borrowed CNY and then sold that CNY for BTS. I ended up getting margin called as BTS fell in price. I'm ok with being wrong about a position, but I'm very confused with the mechanics of how this happened. I also had no idea what my position was worth throughout the trade, and I'm not even entirely sure how much I lost. Shorting needs to be streamlined and simplified. The borrow/sell thing is too many steps and not knowing the positions value during the trade is borderline scary.
2.Is there a way to put a stop loss or take profit order?
Because right now I can't figure out how to do it. This means there is no money management ability. Without the ability to manage a trade, the DEX is unusable for serious traders. There needs to be at a minim stop loss orders. There really should be a way to put trailing stops in as well.
3.Indicators are shaky at best
Right now there are 4 indicators and 2 of them are moving averages. The RSI doesn't appear to be working as the only reading I see on the more liquid markets are 100, 50, or 0. It looks like an EKG witch tells me something isn't working correctly. Not all traders use indicators, but many do.
These are just basic GUI things that are preventing traders from using the DEX. It doesn't even include the inability to use leverage. Just fixing the 3 things above will bring much more utility and liquidity to the dex. I will guarantee it. The people that originally designed the DEX were not traders. They thought poloniex was a good interface to base their platform on. Unfortunately, poloniex is not a good platform. A professional trader would never use Poloniex. Poloniex's platform is modeled off some cheap retail trading platform.
How do we fix this??
Right now we are consumed by petty fee debates and if we should keep calling ourselves DPOS. These things are not that important right now. It's not what will drive mainstream traders to the BTS platform. What is needed is A PLUGIN FOR METATRADER 4. While it isn't the most sophisticated trading platform, it's the most widely used and known. It's also light years ahead of the current DEX. What I propose is that instead of @dannotestein and blocktrades using a worker proposal to fix basic blockchain bugs, rather is work on creating a plugin for MT4. They are already an exchange and have a good understanding of BTS. I know it's not as easy as fixing "bad coding techniques", but getting this plugin for BTS would do more to improve the market cap and utility than anything else.
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
All that's left of BM is his "promise" to offer worker proposals (in some undefined point in time) for the migration of his STEEM inventions *if* they prove to be successful.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.
He has no plans to offer any worker proposals, apart from emergency fixes.
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.
For me this is enough to call it "gone".
Satoshi is gone for Bitcoin as well... I think this does not have to be crippling... and as said, I think BitShares is so far ahead of the curve... for 10 years there should be no need to do any further development on the core. Services like OpenPOS from KenCode can now focus on a stable core and I think they would not appreciate too much if they would change the core substantially every 6 months...
The over riding theme here seems to be to try to generate some ideas on how we can make the bitshares token more valuable.
I agree that a rebrand could be helpful, and calling it simply DEX is a great way to hammer home what it is. BitShares was quite confusing.
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
All that's left of BM is his "promise" to offer worker proposals (in some undefined point in time) for the migration of his STEEM inventions *if* they prove to be successful.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.
He has no plans to offer any worker proposals, apart from emergency fixes.
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.
For me this is enough to call it "gone".
Smart Contracts cannot fix Dumb People BitShares had all of the tools, the talent, and the money to do great things if only the BTS holders could agree on what should be done, who should be paid, and how much should be spent.
Voting is overrated. I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.Yeah this is odd.
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
All that's left of BM is his "promise" to offer worker proposals (in some undefined point in time) for the migration of his STEEM inventions *if* they prove to be successful.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.
He has no plans to offer any worker proposals, apart from emergency fixes.
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.
For me this is enough to call it "gone".
Yeah Dan and Stan seem to have both come to similar conclusions about decentralization, BTS & DPOS.
https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doaQuoteSmart Contracts cannot fix Dumb People BitShares had all of the tools, the talent, and the money to do great things if only the BTS holders could agree on what should be done, who should be paid, and how much should be spent.Voting is overrated. I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.
So I wish them luck with their centralized, benevolent whale blockchain, combined with all BM's tools & talent, I'm sure they'll be a Darwinian guaranteed success. BTS, LSK, DAO, DASH etc. don't stand a chance :)
(While I agree many aspects of it are challenging, I think they've come to some wrong conclusions by ignoring/discounting the role they played in the state of affairs BTS found itself and I also believe it's those that continue to develop the tools and incentives to make that process effective that will be the most rewarded.)
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
On a side note, Dan Larimer has not been gone from BitShares for anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near as completely, as Jakub (the OP) was when he was mia for many months. No doubt Jakub was off doing valuable research and work - although he gave us no intimation of that. Should we expect any less of Bytemaster, who's hiatus will likely much benefit BitShares in the long run?
Please everyone take that into consideration when evaluating this thread.
All that's left of BM is his "promise" to offer worker proposals (in some undefined point in time) for the migration of his STEEM inventions *if* they prove to be successful.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.
He has no plans to offer any worker proposals, apart from emergency fixes.
And he's not even willing to promote OpenLedger as a trading platform for STEEM.
For me this is enough to call it "gone".
Yeah Dan and Stan seem to have both come to similar conclusions about decentralization, BTS & DPOS.
https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doaQuoteSmart Contracts cannot fix Dumb People BitShares had all of the tools, the talent, and the money to do great things if only the BTS holders could agree on what should be done, who should be paid, and how much should be spent.Voting is overrated. I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.
So I wish them luck with their centralized, benevolent whale blockchain, combined with all BM's tools & talent, I'm sure they'll be a Darwinian guaranteed success. BTS, LSK, DAO, DASH etc. don't stand a chance :)
(While I agree many aspects of it are challenging, I think they've come to some wrong conclusions by ignoring/discounting the role they played in the state of affairs BTS found itself and I also believe it's those that continue to develop the tools and incentives to make that process effective that will be the most rewarded.)
Boy, you just won't let that go, will you?
You must have quoted that line a dozen times, as if it is somehow controversial.
It is obvious that passengers on planes and ships don't get to vote on operational matters - for good reasons.
Don't make it out to be a global statement against shareholder's choosing their leaders and high level policy preferences.
Never said that.
Read Ronny's brilliant article about the value of having someone in charge of operations that the shareholders can hold accountable:
http://www.maxkeiser.com/2016/06/digital-leadership-is-a-major-benefit-of-the-decentralised-conglomerate-over-the-dao/
(http://www.maxkeiser.com/2016/06/digital-leadership-is-a-major-benefit-of-the-decentralised-conglomerate-over-the-dao/)
Shame on you for speaking, whether with malicious intent or careless neglect, to harm others reputations about things going on Behind the Scenes of which you know nothing.
Proposals are based in part on what resources are available to work on them.
Resources are hired based on the availability of stable funding.
A constant battle over who controls the funding light switch means no one dares hire against any line item.
So the resources remain allocated elsewhere.
Voting is overrated. I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.
It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
BM sold several millions of BTS back in March and also transferred 6M BTS to onceuponatime as a compensation for failing to deliver STEALTH - this is visible on cryptofresh (http://cryptofresh.com/u/dan).It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
I am currently working full time on business development for BitShares (with many people you all know) providing the very services you imply I have abandoned.
Shame on you for speaking, whether with malicious intent or careless neglect, to harm others reputations about things going on Behind the Scenes of which you know nothing.
My reply stated that based on recent articles/statements by BM and yourself, that you 'seem' to have come to the conclusion that the decentralized BTS/DPOS funding model was critically flawed.Proposals are based in part on what resources are available to work on them.
Resources are hired based on the availability of stable funding.
A constant battle over who controls the funding light switch means no one dares hire against any line item.
So the resources remain allocated elsewhere.
Voting is overrated. I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.
Your quote in it's entirety clearly concludes that a system in which decentralized shareholders control the proposal funding light switch, as is the case in the current BTS model, is critically flawed as does BM's DAO article. So I don't think I've taken those statements out of context.
I also didn't reference the apparent large scale selling of BM, (& the whole Larimer family for that matter https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22098.msg287807.html#msg287807 - a few days prior to the April 1st STEEM announcement) which adds further credence to your potential lack of confidence in the BTS model at the time.It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
If your position now is that you continue to have enormous faith in BTS and work on it relentlessly behind the scenes & that I should be ashamed for drawing those completely false, 'careless, shameful and malicious' conclusions that's fine.
3. There is one huge challenge ahead of us: addressing the decision making and governance issue, with the additional difficulty of cultural splits. After all the experiments we've had with DPOS and worker proposals, it looks to me that without someone taking on the role of a community leader there is little chance for much progress. We can stay stagnant for a couple of months but eventually the competition will catch on and our technological advantage will be gone. Ideally, someone like abit or xeroc will need to step up: combining a strong commitment to BitShares, technical expertise and a good relationship with most of the community. We as a community should encourage this to happen and be very generous in terms of financial rewards: it's a tough role which should be rewarded accordingly. We can dream about decentralization, but I'm not aware of a business project that has succeeded without a clear leadership. For me, decentralization means that we can survive when a leader is gone, but still we cannot move forward without having one.
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
BM sold several millions of BTS back in March and also transferred 6M BTS to onceuponatime as a compensation for failing to deliver STEALTH - this is visible on cryptofresh (http://cryptofresh.com/u/dan).It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
Dan has to pay his bills Jakub - he sold his personal holdings. Cryptonomex (the company) and Stan personally still own plenty of bitshares.The money Dan paid me for STEALTH was a very appreciated gesture of goodwill since the project couldn't be completed safely within the given timeframe in a way that I would get the income from it I was expecting. That would have been disastrous because I was expecting that income to fund other BitShares projects (which I have been working on while you were (somewhere?) on hiatus from BitShares activity (not answering Committee enquiries etc and leaving people in the lurch).
He sold his personal shares, which many others still here bitching have done long ago. And this HAD TO BE DONE in order partially to end the stalemate here at BitShares of those unwilling to pay workers. How was he supposed to hold a team together?
And how can you be so blind as to not see that a good deal of development money will go into the hands of BitShares project developers who simply take the trouble to post their projects and their progress on steemit.com? Or do you begrudge this workaround to get funding to the likes of KenCode and Fuzzy? (and others). Have you not noticed how well Cryptoctpus (known as rgcrypto here on this forum) has done on steemit.com? He has earned over $20,000 in just two weeks (after beating his head against the wall trying to online market BitShares earlier). I am pretty damn sure that he will be bringing his newfound funds and experience back to BitShares in the future (as will all the rest of us taking advantage of Dan's newly created opportunity).
Posting negativity here in this forum does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to add value to BitShares - but hey, it is helping to keep share prices down and I have been buying up bitshares on the cheap continuously for weeks. Thank you (I guess).
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
BM sold several millions of BTS back in March and also transferred 6M BTS to onceuponatime as a compensation for failing to deliver STEALTH - this is visible on cryptofresh (http://cryptofresh.com/u/dan).It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
Dan has to pay his bills Jakub - he sold his personal holdings. Cryptonomex (the company) and Stan personally still own plenty of bitshares.The money Dan paid me for STEALTH was a very appreciated gesture of goodwill since the project couldn't be completed safely within the given timeframe in a way that I would get the income from it I was expecting. That would have been disastrous because I was expecting that income to fund other BitShares projects (which I have been working on while you were (somewhere?) on hiatus from BitShares activity (not answering Committee enquiries etc and leaving people in the lurch).
He sold his personal shares, which many others still here bitching have done long ago. And this HAD TO BE DONE in order partially to end the stalemate here at BitShares of those unwilling to pay workers. How was he supposed to hold a team together?
And how can you be so blind as to not see that a good deal of development money will go into the hands of BitShares project developers who simply take the trouble to post their projects and their progress on steemit.com? Or do you begrudge this workaround to get funding to the likes of KenCode and Fuzzy? (and others). Have you not noticed how well Cryptoctpus (known as rgcrypto here on this forum) has done on steemit.com? He has earned over $20,000 in just two weeks (after beating his head against the wall trying to online market BitShares earlier). I am pretty damn sure that he will be bringing his newfound funds and experience back to BitShares in the future (as will all the rest of us taking advantage of Dan's newly created opportunity).
Posting negativity here in this forum does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to add value to BitShares - but hey, it is helping to keep share prices down and I have been buying up bitshares on the cheap continuously for weeks. Thank you (I guess).
give me a break .
He has earned over $20,000 in just two weeks .
Really , that sounds real to you ? You really believe that when he take out the money , it will worth 20,000 ??????
It's just the same with BTS dilution , but worse . It's just paper money . Once people gets it and start to sell it , its price will drop dramatically .
You just need faith. Dan and Stan bringing faith based blockchain solutions to the masses.
God bless us. Chuckle.
You just need faith. Dan and Stan bringing faith based blockchain solutions to the masses.
God bless us. Chuckle.
It is stunning how much you young ladies are sounding almost EXACTLY like the nattering ninnies who were laughing at me for spending $5 "real" dollars to buy "virtual" Bitcoins in 2011.
Chuckle.
You just need faith. Dan and Stan bringing faith based blockchain solutions to the masses.
God bless us. Chuckle.
It is stunning how much you young ladies are sounding almost EXACTLY like the nattering ninnies who were laughing at me for spending $5 "real" dollars to buy "virtual" Bitcoins in 2011.
Chuckle.
Haha... I would just like to inform you that there are other blockchain projects.
I hope you guys get paid. I just don't want some naive nattering Nancy to go into that and invest their time under some wrong assumption. The problem is that Steem is just an iffy thing in many ways but I am not going to pick it apart.
I don't think we need to rebrand BitShares as such, partly because I don't like rebranding in general (wastes precious time, sends a conflicting message, and usually leads me to suspect it's being done because of mistakes made in the past) and partly because I don't think it is a bad name.This the approach I would support.
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD
He has no longer any significant stake in BTS.Is this proven or just rumored?
BM sold several millions of BTS back in March and also transferred 6M BTS to onceuponatime as a compensation for failing to deliver STEALTH - this is visible on cryptofresh (http://cryptofresh.com/u/dan).It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).
Dan has to pay his bills Jakub - he sold his personal holdings. Cryptonomex (the company) and Stan personally still own plenty of bitshares.The money Dan paid me for STEALTH was a very appreciated gesture of goodwill since the project couldn't be completed safely within the given timeframe in a way that I would get the income from it I was expecting. That would have been disastrous because I was expecting that income to fund other BitShares projects (which I have been working on while you were (somewhere?) on hiatus from BitShares activity (not answering Committee enquiries etc and leaving people in the lurch).
He sold his personal shares, which many others still here bitching have done long ago. And this HAD TO BE DONE in order partially to end the stalemate here at BitShares of those unwilling to pay workers. How was he supposed to hold a team together?
And how can you be so blind as to not see that a good deal of development money will go into the hands of BitShares project developers who simply take the trouble to post their projects and their progress on steemit.com? Or do you begrudge this workaround to get funding to the likes of KenCode and Fuzzy? (and others). Have you not noticed how well Cryptoctpus (known as rgcrypto here on this forum) has done on steemit.com? He has earned over $20,000 in just two weeks (after beating his head against the wall trying to online market BitShares earlier). I am pretty damn sure that he will be bringing his newfound funds and experience back to BitShares in the future (as will all the rest of us taking advantage of Dan's newly created opportunity).
Posting negativity here in this forum does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to add value to BitShares - but hey, it is helping to keep share prices down and I have been buying up bitshares on the cheap continuously for weeks. Thank you (I guess).
I don't think we need to rebrand BitShares as such, partly because I don't like rebranding in general (wastes precious time, sends a conflicting message, and usually leads me to suspect it's being done because of mistakes made in the past) and partly because I don't think it is a bad name.
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
This thread to me was another experiment in attempting to control bitshares.Spot on, bunker.
I don't think we need to rebrand BitShares as such, partly because I don't like rebranding in general (wastes precious time, sends a conflicting message, and usually leads me to suspect it's being done because of mistakes made in the past) and partly because I don't think it is a bad name.+5% +5% +5%
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
+5%
This thread to me was another experiment in attempting to control bitshares.Spot on, bunker.
I hoped nobody would notice but... damn it, you did.
As always, I underestimated your brain power.
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
You guys are quite funny.This thread to me was another experiment in attempting to control bitshares.Spot on, bunker.
I hoped nobody would notice but... damn it, you did.
As always, I underestimated your brain power.
This is the kind of answer I was expecting to hear from someone that has no idea about 5th of November, was MIA and sudently comes back with.... PLANS!
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
I've tried to bring several moderately well-off people into Bitshares, they were ALL completely turned off by the fact that all balances are public...
5) Forget about changing the logo or the name! I have a T-Shirt that has a logo that means something..If you change it I wouldn't know how to answer when people ask me what is it :)
5%%%%I don't think we need to rebrand BitShares as such, partly because I don't like rebranding in general (wastes precious time, sends a conflicting message, and usually leads me to suspect it's being done because of mistakes made in the past) and partly because I don't think it is a bad name.+5% +5% +5%
But I do think it would be beneficial to promote the use of the term DEX as "ours" in our marketing literature (web site, social media, and even the web wallet). I use this term all the time in telegram/slack, as do many others, to describe our trading network. So I suggest we keep BitShares to describe the coin and the chain and use "the DEX" to describe the actual market that runs on the chain.
+5%
You just need faith. Dan and Stan bringing faith based blockchain solutions to the masses.
God bless us. Chuckle.
You guys are quite funny.This thread to me was another experiment in attempting to control bitshares.Spot on, bunker.
I hoped nobody would notice but... damn it, you did.
As always, I underestimated your brain power.
This is the kind of answer I was expecting to hear from someone that has no idea about 5th of November, was MIA and sudently comes back with.... PLANS!
Three questions to you, sir:
a) Why does it bother you so much that I've been away for a couple of months?
b) What PLANS have I come with? (It looks to me that I just raised a question if BTS can move forward without any form of leadership and rebrand)
c) What is the relationship between vesting coming to an end and the leadership/rebrand issue?
This thread has given me a very valuable insight about the current state of this community and the current BitShares potential as a DAC.
I'm not being ironic - I got the answer I was looking for.
c) You really HAD NO IDEA what happens on the 5th of November date, trying to conceal that you just did another mistake.Yes, I did not know what happens on Nov 5th, tried to conceal this shameful ignorance and this surely disqualifies me to raise the issue of leadership and branding.
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
I don´t think that BitShares needs a rebranding either. The brand is good, a lot of our target people (Financial professionals) know about BitShares but they have problems to understand all of their features. What really is missing, in my point of view, is an easy "get started tutorial" for the BitShares Platform.
Ronny is already working on great material for how to open an account, how to fund it and how to start trading, great!!
Additionally we need 101 tutorials for BitShares 2.0 again, especially since we have a feature freeze and the value and content of a tutorial will be valid at least for a year plus.
Getting started with BitShares is not easy, MPA, UIA, FBA, Multi Sig, Backups, DPOS, Smartcontracts, Program languages, and many more just raise many questions for beginners. When we want to make our beloved platform more open we should start here. Tutorials and an updated BitShares.org website.
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
I meet Gavin Wood from Ethercore yesterday on a conference and I liked the way how he presented ETH infront of +250 software developers at the Daho.am Developer Conference in Munich. Very simple and clean, without talking about the following core buzzwords.(https://ipfs.pics/ipfs/QmXxyTxYoEATpUF8ZaWXLbKTe6tVvmsi77WqX7bfZV1f4Q)
(https://ipfs.pics/ipfs/Qme1tjUXRGFtk3UMsDT25LY24xtDgkd7NAyDFQ3XonK14x)
So what can we learn from him? Should we now go to banking conferences and present them the DEX? Should we go to day trader conferences and present the DEX? Bitcoin Trading conferences? It is hard to define who our core audience is. The BitShares Graphene code is actually a trading engine software for Exchanges. Poloniex, Bitfinex, Kraken are runing on Alphapoint or a selfbuilt software. They could switch to Graphene, but might loose control. So who do we talk to? It is not the regular Java script coder, he is gone with Ethereum. Thats their play ground. Where is ours?
I would love to discuss our target group way more than we do. We have tons of projects on the line with BitShares Munich and we profit from a stabile feature set. Let us all continue to attract more businesses like OpenLedger and BitShares Munich, Compufeed, etc. to this great platform and increase volume.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
Where is the best discussion of how the STEEMIT dollars work without the long/short mechanism?
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
Where is the best discussion of how the STEEMIT dollars work without the long/short mechanism?
The Steem Dollar is an amalgamation of stable coin mechanisms. It's influenced by Vitalik Buterin's seignorage shares and other seignorage based stable coins. Other than seignorage, the token is supported by automatic distribution at a set rate, the holder's ability to use the blockchain to convert to Steem, price feeds and a target % of market cap. The blockchain has self-balancing seignorage mechanisms to make sure SD stays at a target % of market capitalization. To improve price feeds and liquidity, there is trading that occurs to support the peg that can happen off-chain or on-chain, however, one of the important facilitators of SD is the subsidized blockchain-based market between Steem and Steem Dollars.
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
Where is the best discussion of how the STEEMIT dollars work without the long/short mechanism?
The Steem Dollar is an amalgamation of stable coin mechanisms, largely influenced by Vitalik Buterin's seignorage shares and other seignorage based stable coins, as well as lessons learned from BitUSD, Nubits and Dai. Other than seignorage, the token is supported by automatic distribution at a set rate, the holder's ability to use the blockchain to convert to Steem, price feeds and a target % of market cap. The blockchain has self-balancing seignorage mechanisms to make sure SD stays at a target % of market capitalization. To improve price feeds and liquidity, trading occurs off-chain or on-chain, however, one of the important facilitators of SD is the subsidized blockchain-based market between Steem and Steem Dollars.
20k is wishful thinking and probably not enough due diligence on onceuponatime's side.
the more votes are cast the less shares a post has in the end. the end is 4th of july when everything is paid out.
it's highly likely that we talk about 2-3 figure per whale voted post.
advertising a high payrate will horribly backfire
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
Where is the best discussion of how the STEEMIT dollars work without the long/short mechanism?
The Steem Dollar is an amalgamation of stable coin mechanisms. It's influenced by Vitalik Buterin's seignorage shares and other seignorage based stable coins. Other than seignorage, the token is supported by automatic distribution at a set rate, the holder's ability to use the blockchain to convert to Steem, price feeds and a target % of market cap. The blockchain has self-balancing seignorage mechanisms to make sure SD stays at a target % of market capitalization. To improve price feeds and liquidity, there is trading that occurs to support the peg that can happen off-chain or on-chain, however, one of the important facilitators of SD is the subsidized blockchain-based market between Steem and Steem Dollars.
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
20k is wishful thinking and probably not enough due diligence on onceuponatime's side.
the more votes are cast the less shares a post has in the end. the end is 4th of july when everything is paid out.
it's highly likely that we talk about 2-3 figure per whale voted post.
advertising a high payrate will horribly backfire
What is your understanding of how a 'whale voted' post works? Are you under the belief that it doesn't affect visibility but does affect payment?
That is my general view 'horrible backfiring' and a lot of that will fall on BitShares. :(
From.where come the money.for.LIQUIDITY REWARDS FROM STEEM? From fees? How does this work fully? Inthe white paper is not clear for me..... What do you guys, traders think of it?
From.where come the money.for.LIQUIDITY REWARDS FROM STEEM? From fees? How does this work fully? Inthe white paper is not clear for me..... What do you guys, traders think of it?
Let me.see if i understand market maker provide.liquidity put orders on both sides, they would pay fees in a normal way, bu with steem mechanism the normal people would.pay an.additional value incorporated in his bid/ask so he can pay a small value to support the market maker? Is it?
I am working on the Website and currently thinking about the right design structure plus a way how to fund the front end developer. I first want to be 100% sure to get a voter in, because i don´t want to waste 160€ for a empty worker. I do not have spear funds fur such a deal. So before we think about a big rebranding, let us use what we have so far. Refaine our core values and talk to our core target group.
You should have posted this to STEEM.
And for the morons who think that the Steemit posters will lose value of their bitUSD (STEEM backed crypto dollars are the same thing) relative to USD as they go to cash it out on July 5th, I have to laugh and realize that not even some of the BitShares faithful know that the concept of:
"the value of 1 bitUSD can always be sold for $1 USD" is true
But for these people who are afraid that the value of bitUSD will fall relative to USD I will do you the favor and do your homework for you:
On July 5th the value of STEEMPOWER will fall as the STEEM backed dollars are pulled out of the system. Sorry but the concept of smartcoins has been around now for years and when you act like it does not exist, it kind of makes me feel like a genius and realize that if the BitShares locals still have not learned what the heck a "smartcoin" is then...... (do the math)(early adopt much?)
How is the value of the bitUSD (SBD) going to hold it's value during this predictable exodous? By barring the doors of the STEEMPOWER holders (and taking their money and giving it to the curators).
Duh.. "smartcoins" hello. STEEM is a simplified fork of BitShares not a more complex one (no shorting/margin calls etc). Wake up class, life is passing you by.
ELI5:
STEEM - It's just a BitShares fundraiser
As far as branding goes. Let's keep the "BitShares" brand of smartcoins, but since our DEX is so kick ass performancewise, I do believe that we should start calling it:
"The DEX"
It is after all the first and only place that I know of where you can create and trade smartcoins (those things that many around here still fail to admit the existance of!)
Where is the best discussion of how the STEEMIT dollars work without the long/short mechanism?
The Steem Dollar is an amalgamation of stable coin mechanisms. It's influenced by Vitalik Buterin's seignorage shares and other seignorage based stable coins. Other than seignorage, the token is supported by automatic distribution at a set rate, the holder's ability to use the blockchain to convert to Steem, price feeds and a target % of market cap. The blockchain has self-balancing seignorage mechanisms to make sure SD stays at a target % of market capitalization. To improve price feeds and liquidity, there is trading that occurs to support the peg that can happen off-chain or on-chain, however, one of the important facilitators of SD is the subsidized blockchain-based market between Steem and Steem Dollars.
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential. From a Steemit post:
Imagine Apple and McDonalds buying Steem Power
"Where Steem comes in, is in the area of journalism and media. With ad-blocking on the rise and advertisers no longer willing to do expensive advertising campaigns, a model of media underpinned with a blockchain might be the answer. I can imagine Apple and McDonalds and other buying Steem Power to upvote any viral story that made their brands look good. I can see political parties doing the same, ditto pressure groups. Imagine the money that could be made at election time - in fact I think we should contact the Dems and GOP and ask them if they want to vote stuff up!
Steemit could be a new way of monetizing content - instead of the reader having to put up with ads, the advertiser simply purchases Steem Power and sets a bot to upvote any post that mentions their brand."
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential. From a Steemit post:
Imagine Apple and McDonalds buying Steem Power
"Where Steem comes in, is in the area of journalism and media. With ad-blocking on the rise and advertisers no longer willing to do expensive advertising campaigns, a model of media underpinned with a blockchain might be the answer. I can imagine Apple and McDonalds and other buying Steem Power to upvote any viral story that made their brands look good. I can see political parties doing the same, ditto pressure groups. Imagine the money that could be made at election time - in fact I think we should contact the Dems and GOP and ask them if they want to vote stuff up!
Steemit could be a new way of monetizing content - instead of the reader having to put up with ads, the advertiser simply purchases Steem Power and sets a bot to upvote any post that mentions their brand."
Media integrity
Media integrity refers to the ability of a media outlet to serve the public interest and democratic process, making it resilient to institutional corruption within the media system, economy of influence, conflicting dependence and political clientelism. Such a situation enables excessive instrumentalisation of the media for particular political interests, which is subverting democratic role of the media.
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential. From a Steemit post:
Imagine Apple and McDonalds buying Steem Power
"Where Steem comes in, is in the area of journalism and media. With ad-blocking on the rise and advertisers no longer willing to do expensive advertising campaigns, a model of media underpinned with a blockchain might be the answer. I can imagine Apple and McDonalds and other buying Steem Power to upvote any viral story that made their brands look good. I can see political parties doing the same, ditto pressure groups. Imagine the money that could be made at election time - in fact I think we should contact the Dems and GOP and ask them if they want to vote stuff up!
Steemit could be a new way of monetizing content - instead of the reader having to put up with ads, the advertiser simply purchases Steem Power and sets a bot to upvote any post that mentions their brand."
For the record, steemit currently uses the same ranking algorithm as Reddit. Rich whales do not dictate what you see. Just who gets paid.https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22561.msg293587.html#msg293587
We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining. Our plan is to...sell 20%.
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential.
If I was a rich guy and wanted to park my money and assets somewhere safe, would I choose the BitShares blockchain? Or would I be a bit skiddish knowing that my assets and such would be visible on cryptofresh.com? Even sending money to people is easily visible.
edit: the only features we are going to add to BitShares right now is Stealth (as soon as we can afford it). Stealth is already done for the most part but it just needs an awesome gui plugged in and secure backups (we use IPFS/IPNS now). you want Whales? -give them some privacy.
I've tried to bring several moderately well-off people into Bitshares, they were ALL completely turned off by the fact that all balances are public...
Actually BTS balances are as public as BTC and ETH.
Stealth is a useful feature but I feel we begin to fall into the same illusion as we did so many times before: "we just need this one more feature and then everything will be fine".
For me the problem is much for fundamental.
BitShares has a governance problem, not lack of features.
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential.
I can see user numbers increasing while the rewards appear generous, however I don't believe that will necessarily translate into increased market demand for Steem.
Also relatively little Steem has been up for sale to date, I imagine after July 4th there will be people looking to redeem their SBD, so even if there's some kind of self-balancing mechanism, demand may actually decrease closer to that date as traders anticipate a potential increase in supply for sale.
Whichever outcome, I imagine people will only be able to redeem their SBD at a trickle, which could disincentivize users and even upset some who thought they had earned a lot of SBD they would be able to redeem reasonably swiftly.
So my personal opinion is that there isn't really a good case for shareholders to invest in Steem and I think it could run into user issues as well. Obviously we'll have to see it how it all plays out at the time.
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential.
I can see user numbers increasing while the rewards appear generous, however I don't believe that will necessarily translate into increased market demand for Steem.
Also relatively little Steem has been up for sale to date, I imagine after July 4th there will be people looking to redeem their SBD, so even if there's some kind of self-balancing mechanism, demand may actually decrease closer to that date as traders anticipate a potential increase in supply for sale.
Whichever outcome, I imagine people will only be able to redeem their SBD at a trickle, which could disincentivize users and even upset some who thought they had earned a lot of SBD they would be able to redeem reasonably swiftly.
So my personal opinion is that there isn't really a good case for shareholders to invest in Steem and I think it could run into user issues as well. Obviously we'll have to see it how it all plays out at the time.
Here is a quote from a Bytemaster srticle on steemit.com entitled "Why people will buy STEEM". I suggest that you might find the article enlightening.
"The primary reason people buy Bitcoin is because it is a cryptocurrency with a large base of people who know about it and are willing to transact in it. The secondary reason is it has a large amount of liquidity. Steem has the potential to build a much larger user base than Bitcoin and provides financial incentives for liquidity. This combination means that Steem could become a better known currency than Bitcoin and thus become easier to transact in than Bitcoin. If market participants perceive this possibility they will buy."
https://steemit.com/steem/@dantheman/why-people-will-buy-steem
Other points covered in the article include:
Social Value
Demand for Influence and Transactions
Advertising Demand
Monetary Use
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s valueat launch
...You just need thick skin and the ability to ignore the Bitcoin pharisees and the angry mob they incite to nail you to a cross...
Given there's only circa $20k buy support for STEEM down to a zero valuation, how much could someone like rgcrypto who has apparently earned $20k STEEM USD realistically convert to BTC over a day/week/month if conditions resembling the current market exist on Jul 5th or whenever they become redeemable?
It is unreasonable to assume that current conditions will persist. Steemit.com's user base is growing exponentially. And with that comes great potential.
I can see user numbers increasing while the rewards appear generous, however I don't believe that will necessarily translate into increased market demand for Steem.
Also relatively little Steem has been up for sale to date, I imagine after July 4th there will be people looking to redeem their SBD, so even if there's some kind of self-balancing mechanism, demand may actually decrease closer to that date as traders anticipate a potential increase in supply for sale.
Whichever outcome, I imagine people will only be able to redeem their SBD at a trickle, which could disincentivize users and even upset some who thought they had earned a lot of SBD they would be able to redeem reasonably swiftly.
So my personal opinion is that there isn't really a good case for shareholders to invest in Steem and I think it could run into user issues as well. Obviously we'll have to see it how it all plays out at the time.
Here is a quote from a Bytemaster srticle on steemit.com entitled "Why people will buy STEEM". I suggest that you might find the article enlightening.
"The primary reason people buy Bitcoin is because it is a cryptocurrency with a large base of people who know about it and are willing to transact in it. The secondary reason is it has a large amount of liquidity. Steem has the potential to build a much larger user base than Bitcoin and provides financial incentives for liquidity. This combination means that Steem could become a better known currency than Bitcoin and thus become easier to transact in than Bitcoin. If market participants perceive this possibility they will buy."
https://steemit.com/steem/@dantheman/why-people-will-buy-steem
Other points covered in the article include:
Social Value
Demand for Influence and Transactions
Advertising Demand
Monetary Use
As you mentioned/quoted previously, Steem deliberately went against all the crypto-currency communities cultural regulations,Quote
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s valueat launch
...You just need thick skin and the ability to ignore the Bitcoin pharisees and the angry mob they incite to nail you to a cross...
http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/
Which is fine, but as a result of intentionally violating every one of the cultural regulations around how to launch a crypto-currency, I think it's unlikely to become widely popular and supported as a crypto-currency in it's own right.
Soooooooo how about that Bitshares thing huh? :)
WHAT do YOU want?
Soooooooo how about that Bitshares thing huh? :)
WHAT do YOU want?
Privacy.
Ordinary people using it as an online banking system.
Traders using it for forex, speculation.
Savers using BitETFs and Smartcoins to store wealth.
I want to be able to store wealth privately on the blockchain, to trade, save, invest, speculate, to do with my hard earned money what I please.
I want to be able to pay online using BitUSD.
I want to be able to send 500 BitUSD to a friend who needs a break instantly, across the world.
I want to use the dishonest, corrupt, extorting banking system as little as I have to.
I'll take ownership of my finances.
I wish Jakub didn't get so offended if I post these discussions on steemit.com in order to make a little money for reinvestment in my bitshares related projects (currently funded out of my own pocket). I hate to offend the boy.Please, don't play a fool now.
Soooooooo how about that Bitshares thing huh? :)
WHAT do YOU want?
Privacy.
Ordinary people using it as an online banking system.
Traders using it for forex, speculation.
Savers using BitETFs and Smartcoins to store wealth.
I want to be able to store wealth privately on the blockchain, to trade, save, invest, speculate, to do with my hard earned money what I please.
I want to be able to pay online using BitUSD.
I want to be able to send 500 BitUSD to a friend who needs a break instantly, across the world.
I want to use the dishonest, corrupt, extorting banking system as little as I have to.
I'll take ownership of my finances.
Fantastic.. now on a scale from 1 - 5, because I counted 5 things there, what order of importance do you think those things should be introduced? 1 being MOST important, and 5 being least.
Soooooooo how about that Bitshares thing huh? :)
WHAT do YOU want?
Privacy.
Ordinary people using it as an online banking system.
Traders using it for forex, speculation.
Savers using BitETFs and Smartcoins to store wealth.
I want to be able to store wealth privately on the blockchain, to trade, save, invest, speculate, to do with my hard earned money what I please.
I want to be able to pay online using BitUSD.
I want to be able to send 500 BitUSD to a friend who needs a break instantly, across the world.
I want to use the dishonest, corrupt, extorting banking system as little as I have to.
I'll take ownership of my finances.
Fantastic.. now on a scale from 1 - 5, because I counted 5 things there, what order of importance do you think those things should be introduced? 1 being MOST important, and 5 being least.
Thank you Bytemaster for finalizing a roadmap...
step 1: implement zero fees
step 2: subsidize liquidity
step 3: implement margin trading and simplify initial visible smartcoin markets to:
bitUSD/BTS
bitGOLD/BTS
bitGOLD/bitUSD
+5% Sounds good
It's ok that market orders are all public data (though if that could be improved, even better) since if stealth'd funds can be sent to/from these accounts for trading, then it is still possible to maintain privacy.
Good points.It's ok that market orders are all public data (though if that could be improved, even better) since if stealth'd funds can be sent to/from these accounts for trading, then it is still possible to maintain privacy.
I don't trust the current stealth mechanism for hiding the metadata linking your various accounts (that send funds to one another) together. Blockchain analysis can easily reveal the link with high probability in most cases. In my view, using the current system would give users a false sense of privacy of their metadata. It is better to focus (in the short term) on the GUI enabling only transfers with blinded balances. That way users could trust that the amount you hold (not the amount you trade or have in orders) could be private as well as the amount you transfer to accounts (like to centralized exchanges). Stealth going beyond blinded amounts that hides metadata as well is a harder problem that I think should be left for later. IMO it requires on-blockchain decentralized coin mixing using something like RingCT. This could also allow you to actually have a secret trading account (with public balances in the order books) that is kept disassociated from your normal account which has fully blinded balances.
Finally, I just wanted to say to @jakub that re-branding isn’t an issue at the moment. It wasn’t a bad idea and it sparked a good discussion, but there is no need for anyone to be mean to each other or replying in cheeky ways just to take the piss out of people who have different opinions.
According to @kenCode, stealth needs funding, but I still don’t see any proposal about the backups. Isn’t there anyone that would like to make a proposal for this very important feature, so that we can progress with stealth afterwards? Because I am feeling that part of the reason we are stuck with Stealth is that there were 3 more things that had to be done on Bitshares before adding stealth which were not considered appropriately in terms of funding.
Finally, I just wanted to say to @jakub that re-branding isn’t an issue at the moment. It wasn’t a bad idea and it sparked a good discussion, but there is no need for anyone to be mean to each other or replying in cheeky ways just to take the piss out of people who have different opinions.
If you haven't noticed, I've been only harsh to people who deliberately wanted to derail this thread or undermine my credibility to raise the issue, or completely misunderstood my genuine intentions.
And if I've been cheeky it's only because I do care, as BitShares has been an important part of my life for the last 2.5 years.
In my view, the future of BitShares now hinges on the success of a couple of business initiatives (OpenLedger, OpenPOS, bitCash or SollywoodTV) but *even if* any of them succeeds, for me this is no valid substitute for true leadership and brand identity needed in this ecosystem.
In this respect I completely agree with those two posts recently published on steem:
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@ steem1/rebrand-bitshares-to-dex-before-its-too-late
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@ help-yourself/why-has-bitshares-failed
As I've realized that this community does not feel the necessity to move on, I need to move on.
It's been a great privilege to be here.
Good luck, thank you and good-bye.
PS. If anyone needs to contact me, @abit has all the details.
Toast for president!+5%
I've been pondering ways to "revive" bitshares (more like "give it momentum again" - it isn't and was never profitable, though we're getting close now that we are not inflating).
Good thread. BTS is the only chain besides BTC that I actually use for its practical utility to me. That really says it all.
I've been pondering ways to "revive" bitshares (more like "give it momentum again" - it isn't and was never profitable, though we're getting close now that we are not inflating).
Soooooooo how about that Bitshares thing huh? :)
WHAT do YOU want?
Privacy.
Ordinary people using it as an online banking system.
Traders using it for forex, speculation.
Savers using BitETFs and Smartcoins to store wealth.
I want to be able to store wealth privately on the blockchain, to trade, save, invest, speculate, to do with my hard earned money what I please.
I want to be able to pay online using BitUSD.
I want to be able to send 500 BitUSD to a friend who needs a break instantly, across the world.
I want to use the dishonest, corrupt, extorting banking system as little as I have to.
I'll take ownership of my finances.
Fantastic.. now on a scale from 1 - 5, because I counted 5 things there, what order of importance do you think those things should be introduced? 1 being MOST important, and 5 being least.
This seems like a pretty good short term roadmap...Thank you Bytemaster for finalizing a roadmap...
step 1: implement zero fees
step 2: subsidize liquidity
step 3: implement margin trading and simplify initial visible smartcoin markets to:
bitUSD/BTS
bitGOLD/BTS
bitGOLD/bitUSD
+5% Sounds good