BitShares Forum
Other => Random Discussion => Topic started by: Akado on January 14, 2016, 11:03:02 pm
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Why has Bitcoin failed? It has failed because the community has failed. What was meant to be a new, decentralised form of money that lacked “systemically important institutions” and “too big to fail” has become something even worse: a system completely controlled by just a handful of people. Worse still, the network is on the brink of technical collapse. The mechanisms that should have prevented this outcome have broken down, and as a result there’s no longer much reason to think Bitcoin can actually be better than the existing financial system.
https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.uygu5tg3v
Some customers contacted Chris earlier today asking why our bitcoin payouts didn’t execute …
The issue is that it’s now officially impossible to depend upon the bitcoin network anymore to know when or if your payment will be transacted, because the congestion is so bad that even minor spikes in volume create dramatic changes in network conditions. To whom is it acceptable that one could wait either 60 minutes or 14 hours, chosen at random?
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wow. Thats a stunning read.
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wow. Thats a stunning read.
I enjoyed it too. Im not too deep into Bitcoin polemics and politics atm but if what he said is true then things definitely don't look any good. How can they expect Paypal (upvoted on r/bitcoin atm) to use bitcoin when transaction might take indefinite time to be confirmed + the potential of reverting transactions lol doesn't even make sense.
Let's get Mike to code for BitShares :P
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Let's get Mike to code for BitShares :P
Told you that you were on FIRE :) +5%
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It's pretty much true obviously, but he's been saying it/talking down BTC for ages.
Here he is telling Max Wright similar stuff 16 months ago.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-really-fragile-bitcoin-core-developer-mike-hearn/
Let's get Mike to code for BitShares :P
I assume he's a developer on 'Decred', the new crypto-currency Bitcoin developers are creating that pays 10% of each block subsidy to a development organization.
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The issue is that it’s now officially impossible to depend upon the bitcoin network anymore to know when or if your payment will be transacted, because the congestion is so bad that even minor spikes in volume create dramatic changes in network conditions
That's great. This means that I can't withdraw my funds from bitshares in reliable way. I can't deposit in reliable way either. Where are those fiat ramps?
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It's pretty much true obviously, but he's been saying it/talking down BTC for ages.
Here he is telling Max Wright similar stuff 16 months ago.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-really-fragile-bitcoin-core-developer-mike-hearn/
Let's get Mike to code for BitShares :P
I assume he's a developer on 'Decred', the new crypto-currency Bitcoin developers are creating that pays 10% of each block subsidy to a development organization.
Oh he's part of the Decred pack!
Well, now I'm really really curious about Bitcoin this next year. Hopefully people start to realize there are better options and we see some diversification. This, assuming bitcoin continues being chocked by its own community.
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
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... Is any Bts representative collaborating with Mike Hearn? Bts seems like a good home for him... Some one should contact him.
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All I know is, I did two 'highest priority' Bitcoin transactions the other night. Each of them took 55 minutes to execute...for ONE confirmation.
It's a shame the world is trying to pop up Bitcoin when we have something far better here. But until we get some fiat on-ramps, we're all stuck with BTC.
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
+5%
bitcoin have a lot of weakness and I'm sure people are smart and they know this very clear. so please don't blame bitcoin anymore, because this is the fact, everybody know this.
but it's a perfect object for capital.
The economic base determines the superstructure, and politics is the concentrated expression of economics
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
"Bitcoin has no future whilst it’s controlled by fewer than 10 people."
be practical . Not a lot of Chinese people will like to be exposed to a crypto token that's rely on several people(I'm referring to those who give people the impression that if they walk away and BTS will go to zero ) to keep it running , or lack of liquidity .
It's a fun experiment .
Soooo when it's about Bitshares, the core devs are a problem and nobody wants to be exposed. When it's about Bitcoin though, the core devs don't matter.. all the problems don't matter.. its perfect object for capital.. whatever that means.
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
"Bitcoin has no future whilst it’s controlled by fewer than 10 people."
be practical . Not a lot of Chinese people will like to be exposed to a crypto token that's rely on several people(I'm referring to those who give people the impression that if they walk away and BTS will go to zero ) to keep it running , or lack of liquidity .
It's a fun experiment .
Soooo when it's about Bitshares, the core devs are a problem and nobody wants to be exposed. When it's about Bitcoin though, the core devs don't matter.. all the problems don't matter.. its perfect object for capital.. whatever that means.
you'll know what it means when BTS has 0.00001 second conformation time while people still choose to hold bitcoin regardless of how many flaw it has .
bitcoin devs don't matter because bitcoin's value was never coming from the development . It come from the capital . The capital picked up a software/protocol and convinced people that's gold .
same way they convinced you that a stone call diamond is the symbol for long last love . (diamond is crap , small , useless in real world , and its production is bloody )
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
"Bitcoin has no future whilst it’s controlled by fewer than 10 people."
be practical . Not a lot of Chinese people will like to be exposed to a crypto token that's rely on several people(I'm referring to those who give people the impression that if they walk away and BTS will go to zero ) to keep it running , or lack of liquidity .
It's a fun experiment .
Soooo when it's about Bitshares, the core devs are a problem and nobody wants to be exposed. When it's about Bitcoin though, the core devs don't matter.. all the problems don't matter.. its perfect object for capital.. whatever that means.
you'll know what it means when BTS has 0.00001 second conformation time while people still choose to hold bitcoin regardless of how many flaw it has .
bitcoin devs don't matter because bitcoin's value was never coming from the development . It come from the capital . The capital picked up a software/protocol and convinced people that's gold .
"Hot money follows hot investments until it doesn't"
What you are describing is the formation of a bubble... bubble can last for a long time, but they all end eventually. Then that hot money has to search for a new bubble to blow (here's to hoping its BTS).
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
"Bitcoin has no future whilst it’s controlled by fewer than 10 people."
be practical . Not a lot of Chinese people will like to be exposed to a crypto token that's rely on several people(I'm referring to those who give people the impression that if they walk away and BTS will go to zero ) to keep it running , or lack of liquidity .
It's a fun experiment .
Soooo when it's about Bitshares, the core devs are a problem and nobody wants to be exposed. When it's about Bitcoin though, the core devs don't matter.. all the problems don't matter.. its perfect object for capital.. whatever that means.
you'll know what it means when BTS has 0.00001 second conformation time while people still choose to hold bitcoin regardless of how many flaw it has .
bitcoin devs don't matter because bitcoin's value was never coming from the development . It come from the capital . The capital picked up a software/protocol and convinced people that's gold .
"Hot money follows hot investments until it doesn't"
What you are describing is the formation of a bubble... bubble can last for a long time, but they all end eventually. Then that hot money has to search for a new bubble to blow (here's to hoping its BTS).
Not necessary about bubble .
same way they convinced you that a stone call diamond is the symbol for long last love . (diamond is crap , small , useless in real world , and its production is bloody . more flaw than bitcoin ) .
And you can expect from a potentially long future , diamond will still be valuable .
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What they're saying has been true so far. But that does not mean it will continue to be true. Some smart money backed Altavista and Betamax in the beginning, too, but in time the money moved toward the better products.
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What they're saying has been true so far. But that does not mean it will continue to be true. Some smart money backed Altavista and Betamax in the beginning, too, but in time the money moved toward the better products.
so when do you expect smart money move away from a useless object called "natural diamond" ?
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why has every negative prediction about Bitcoin failed , including "pow is waste" ?
because .... Bitcoin is not about transaction time , cost , etc . It's about the price/marketcap . When the price is high enough , people will find solution to go around that . Gold production is toxic to the environment , and human still support gold because the cost will also be enormous otherwise .
I'll say this . Bitcoin as a crypto may never fail , because it's a perfect object for capital . And capital always beats words and text and logical reasons .
(Woman pay high price for a handbag is weird and il-logical , but who cares ? capital already convinced them they should have one . )
"Bitcoin has no future whilst it’s controlled by fewer than 10 people."
be practical . Not a lot of Chinese people will like to be exposed to a crypto token that's rely on several people(I'm referring to those who give people the impression that if they walk away and BTS will go to zero ) to keep it running , or lack of liquidity .
It's a fun experiment .
Soooo when it's about Bitshares, the core devs are a problem and nobody wants to be exposed. When it's about Bitcoin though, the core devs don't matter.. all the problems don't matter.. its perfect object for capital.. whatever that means.
you'll know what it means when BTS has 0.00001 second conformation time while people still choose to hold bitcoin regardless of how many flaw it has .
bitcoin devs don't matter because bitcoin's value was never coming from the development . It come from the capital . The capital picked up a software/protocol and convinced people that's gold .
"Hot money follows hot investments until it doesn't"
What you are describing is the formation of a bubble... bubble can last for a long time, but they all end eventually. Then that hot money has to search for a new bubble to blow (here's to hoping its BTS).
for the captial, currenlty crypto world is a nice place to blow the bubble. and seems now it's far from the bubble brust.
after all, this is a game about money. we imagine that the problem can be solved by crypto in fact is not so urgent but it's a perfect chance to boast of a good vision to the people.
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What they're saying has been true so far. But that does not mean it will continue to be true. Some smart money backed Altavista and Betamax in the beginning, too, but in time the money moved toward the better products.
so when do you expect smart money move away from a useless object called "natural diamond" ?
Comparing Bitcoin to gold or diamonds is just silly... gold doesn't change.. a diamond doesn't change..
Bitcoin is imploding and the moment people see it and feel it they will exodus en-mass as fast as possible.
It only takes a few keystrokes.. so it can be REALLY fast... oh wait.. who knows what confirmation times will be by then.. with transactions being reversible now nobody is going to accept transactions without confirmations anymore. Might take a few days.. and by then it could be at zero... perfect.
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What they're saying has been true so far. But that does not mean it will continue to be true. Some smart money backed Altavista and Betamax in the beginning, too, but in time the money moved toward the better products.
so when do you expect smart money move away from a useless object called "natural diamond" ?
Ummm...When the DeBeers company can no longer hide the fact that diamonds are plentiful. Diamonds are a shiny piece of glass and it's all in the marketing, as you know. There's been some evidence that young people are moving away from gold as an object that's given artificially high value. Someday, maybe diamonds, too. Or maybe not.
When do you expect Microsoft and IBM to show that mobile devices are unneeded in today's world, when we can all have our own personal computers?
The only question is, which of these boxes does crypto-currency fit into? I would argue there is too much wrong with Bitcoin, and too many problems that are being addressed/solved by other, better currencies, for Bitcoin to succeed in the long run. But most of the Bitcoin infrastructure that smart money has supported (wallets, apps, etc.) will not be wasted, since (with minor adjustments) much of it can be used with any other crypto.
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If BTS had fiat on-ramps, I would spend $10,000 of my own money right now to buy ads proclaiming BitShares to be Bitcoin's successor. Without fiat on-ramps, the whole thing is irrelevant because we are stuck in Bitcoin's inferno.
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If BTS had fiat on-ramps, I would spend $10,000 of my own money right now to buy ads proclaiming BitShares to be Bitcoin's successor. Without fiat on-ramps, the whole thing is irrelevant because we are stuck in Bitcoin's inferno.
i thought ccedk was a bts on-ramp ??
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Hearn's ego is the problem here. His shitcoin flopped and now he's butthurt. that's all I got from this blog
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i thought ccedk was a bts on-ramp ??
CCEDK is great, but we still have a ways to go there before we call it a fiat on-ramp. I want people to be able to deposit USD/EUR/CNY/Any-Major-Fiat directly from a bank into the exchange, click-click-click, and then be able to take it out again the same way after trading. Until then, we are dependent on Bitcoin, all of its flaws, and all of the steps necessary to convert fiat into Bitcoin and then BTS or BitAssets, all of which will turn off the majority of potential users.
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i thought ccedk was a bts on-ramp ??
CCEDK is great, but we still have a ways to go there before we call it a fiat on-ramp. I want people to be able to deposit USD/EUR/CNY/Any-Major-Fiat directly from a bank into the exchange, click-click-click, and then be able to take it out again the same way after trading. Until then, we are dependent on Bitcoin, all of its flaws, and all of the steps necessary to convert fiat into Bitcoin and then BTS or BitAssets, all of which will turn off the majority of potential users.
Ronny said OpenLedger will soon have some fiat gateways. I think their EUR gateway will be great because SEPA charges almost (or totally) no fee and the deposit fee will be 0% as well. If someone make OPENEUR-BTS market, it will be a cool on-ramp.
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Hearn's ego is the problem here. His shitcoin flopped and now he's butthurt. that's all I got from this blog
I didn't see anything about a shitcoin there.. what are you referring to?
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Hearn's ego is the problem here. His shitcoin flopped and now he's butthurt. that's all I got from this blog
I recommend reading it again. Bonus points if you can identify the issue with the current state of mining.
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If BTS had fiat on-ramps, I would spend $10,000 of my own money right now to buy ads proclaiming BitShares to be Bitcoin's successor. Without fiat on-ramps, the whole thing is irrelevant because we are stuck in Bitcoin's inferno.
This is a monumentally important point. BitShares needs to be free of the Bitcoin network, urgently. Assuming global financial problems accelerate and capital flight to anywhere of relative safety begins in earnest....we need a stable pipe straight into BTS. The Bitcoin, gold and silver markets are absolutely tiny compared with the paper markets and right now absolutely nobody cares. At some point, everybody is going to care. With the Bitcoin network's trouble, it's not going to take long before capital tries to flow into more promising ledger technologies/networks. There will be more people doing more due diligence looking for less risky 1000's of % profits than Bitcoin is likely to be able to offer. Even if Bitcoin goes to $10,000 each, I expect the flaws and time restrictions on addressing them to mean capital will try to flood out....
Could be an interesting year! FIAT on off ramps could mean the difference between success or failure of network effect for BitShares as global events catch up to us.
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If BTS had fiat on-ramps, I would spend $10,000 of my own money right now to buy ads proclaiming BitShares to be Bitcoin's successor. Without fiat on-ramps, the whole thing is irrelevant because we are stuck in Bitcoin's inferno.
Let's quote this for future reference :P
I somewhat agree with @btswildpig in the sense that Bitcoin can and might always be a store of value. But tell me, what will happen when all these payments systems that are trying to implement Bitcoin realize that it will take hours or an undefined amount of time to make a transaction? What happens if Bitcoin starts to see more adoption and people realize it's just useless to buy stuff with? (assuming nothing changes till then, which I honestly think it's plausible since it's so hard to reach a consensus)
Then all those business and payment systems will have to turn to the best option. Bitcoin can still have a high marketcap and be very valuable, however some of it's money will eventually flow into the next big opportunity for payments systems for example, something that can scale.
I don't believe it will be useless, but some money will flow onto the next option
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My responce: https://medium.com/@Samupaha/bitcoin-has-a-governance-problem-2dd1b171f45f#.cjxswylmg
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My responce: https://medium.com/@Samupaha/bitcoin-has-a-governance-problem-2dd1b171f45f#.cjxswylmg
I would only add that shareholders can easily kick out any malicious committee members by voting.
I also think Bitcoin's consensus is broken. Proof is the blocksize debate and how this has escalated. I don't really like to go into "my coin is better than yours" type of arguments, but we could actually do that in a very short period of time. Even if it's a polemic action and we see unhappy people on the forums, in the end the shareholders vote and if something is approved that means there is consensus, meaning all whining is irrelevant.
Bitcoin is just stuck on an endless loop of useless arguments. The few people that actually decide to take action and go with XT got DDoS'ed and shut down lol the exact opposite of what Bitcoin should be. Once again something that started with good intentions got corrupted by politics and 3rd party interests.
The thing that really got me excited about Bitcoin and why I think it had the potential to be so powerful is because it could end or at least decrease corruption. However it's current methods aren't working. The ones who take initiative are attacked.
It would be just as simple as let people go with XT and see if the majority would adopt or not. If it's forked and now we have 2 "Bitcoins" competing, what's the problem? Are people worried it could take the whole thing down? That only proves it wasn't good enough to begin with.
Bitcoin is corrupted. The community I see on forums is just the worst and they aren't any better than altcoin pumpers and shills. I just see no difference. It has become something way toxic. It wasn't either good enough from the start or maybe it was just too good and people just aren't ready and let corruption get the best of them. Pick one, the end result is the same and at the sight of everyone.
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Good opportunity for bitshares... mention the 100,000 tps .. sounds like a job for the marketing crew, if there's still one.
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i thought ccedk was a bts on-ramp ??
CCEDK is great, but we still have a ways to go there before we call it a fiat on-ramp. I want people to be able to deposit USD/EUR/CNY/Any-Major-Fiat directly from a bank into the exchange, click-click-click, and then be able to take it out again the same way after trading. Until then, we are dependent on Bitcoin, all of its flaws, and all of the steps necessary to convert fiat into Bitcoin and then BTS or BitAssets, all of which will turn off the majority of potential users.
i agree, a set of fiat on/off ramps into BTS is critical for long run growth. maybe even before that, though, it'd be nice to see a variety of secure vaulting, hardware wallets, and other storage mechanisms. Some in the BTC community will be looking for ready alternatives, and BTS should be near the top of the list.
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If BTS had fiat on-ramps, I would spend $10,000 of my own money right now to buy ads proclaiming BitShares to be Bitcoin's successor. Without fiat on-ramps, the whole thing is irrelevant because we are stuck in Bitcoin's inferno.
+5% And they have to be everywhere, in every country, such that people can cash in/out in local currency through local payment systems.
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i thought ccedk was a bts on-ramp ??
CCEDK is great, but we still have a ways to go there before we call it a fiat on-ramp. I want people to be able to deposit USD/EUR/CNY/Any-Major-Fiat directly from a bank into the exchange, click-click-click, and then be able to take it out again the same way after trading. Until then, we are dependent on Bitcoin, all of its flaws, and all of the steps necessary to convert fiat into Bitcoin and then BTS or BitAssets, all of which will turn off the majority of potential users.
i agree, a set of fiat on/off ramps into BTS is critical for long run growth. maybe even before that, though, it'd be nice to see a variety of secure vaulting, hardware wallets, and other storage mechanisms. Some in the BTC community will be looking for ready alternatives, and BTS should be near the top of the list.
Peermit.com
Working on the security thing already
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How about contacting today´s Fiat Bitcoin exchanges like Bitfinex and Kraken?
They have all the infrastructure, KYC Regulation, Marketing etc. in place. Kraken added ETH in a few weeks. Why not BTS?
Sometimes you do not have to redevelop all the Bitcoin Apps... The business plans stays the same.