Are you saying that CMX should issue and manage a more centralized microtx-chain?
The fees are of the order $0.1 to pay for the cost of security. The only way I can see to reduce this cost is to issue a centralized chain where fewer witnesses and hardware have to be compensated.
Stan and Dan have said they're not interested in issuing such things due to the regulatory burden.

Although it could be an improvement on Changetip, a opaque centralized database.

I've had other ideas on how to solve the problem of micro-tx

Quote from: Permie on July 05, 2015, 04:37:13 pm

Quote from: rgcrypto on July 05, 2015, 03:34:26 pm

The only issue I have was that micro transactions are not ideal on bit shares at 0.20$ transaction fee.  :-(

BM has said that fees should reflect the value provided to the customer.

Fees need not necessarily be paid by the end-user, and the fee may not even necesarily need to be paid in transaction fees. Perhaps the social-media wallet-provider could front the fees to attract more customers, or the fees may be paid another way. Maybe tipping-users can have their fees paid for them if they advertise/tweet the tip to a threshold number of unique viewers.

Quote from: rgcrypto on July 04, 2015, 05:13:04 am

Few minutes ago, I had amazing customer service on elegant theme`s forum.

I've got an idea:

I thought it would be cool if I could send a BitUSD micro payment to this guy to thank him. Just like with ChangeTip.

This guy would be probably happy to have free internet money and then he would be incentivized to go through the process to open a wallet. This wallet has this micropayment functionality and keeps track of the referrals the micropayment bring in.

This wallet would have to be great at inviting people with good copy and an easy sign up process. Then for a viral loop, it would invite the new user to start tipping other and participate in the profit sharing of the wallet. "When you tip and bring in new users, we reward you with x% of all their future transactions"

A smart contract with multisig between the wallet provider and the wallet referrer could split the referral rewards on a monthly basis with a pre-defined x% of it's referral transactions. Everytime someone sends a micropayment the wallet and it's the referrer earns.

The x% would be defined by what is needed for funding development while being high enough to incentivizing it's users to tip.

If such a feature existed in a wallet, a marketer could use this and build a business by signing up people by simply sending tips for good work on the internet. (Fiverr, Content, Youtube, twitter, reddit, email, etc)

Not sure how this could work, but here are my initial thoughts

In this scenario you have 3 entities:
The wallet provider
The tipper
The tippee

The wallet provider wants to earn a profit from providing a tip-based wallet service. These profits can be earned in several ways:
Tx fees of the tippers
Referral income from the tippee
In-wallet advertising
Tip-tagged adverts - John123 wants to send you a tip for 10c! Click here to collect, did you know that XYZ exchange (CCEDK?) can convert to your bank account??
Gaining good-will amongst a particular community in hopes of boosting sales of their other products - in this example CCEDK's nanocard etc

The tipper wants to send a small amount of money to reward good content. They want to pay as low a fee as possible and are likely to want to see the full value of their tip go to the content-creator (tippee). They want this process to be as seamless as possible (one-click) and would like to earn cash-back if possible - perhaps this can be x% of any referral income paid to the wallet provider.

The Tippee wants to feel that their work is valued, they want their tip to be as easy to claim and spend as possible. They want to see instantly why they should bother following through and collect their tip. They do not want to see spam, or suspect they may be the target of a scam.
They would like to know of ways they can further monetize their content and would benefit from CONCISE infographics/info telling them what to do to use BitShares to increase their profits.

I really think that something like this could be the viral-advertising campaign that @CCEDK is looking for. (Could someone tag CCEDK for me, i dont know the userID of CCEDK or how to find it)

Perhaps tips cannot be instantly claimed. Tip-tx's could be bundled into a single transaction and the wallet-provider could pay lower per-tx fees as a consequence of delaying the tx's. Is a single large bundled-tx cheaper for the bts network to process? Is tx-confirmation an economy of scale?

I think the crux of this discussion is whether or not transaction processing can be compensated in a way other than in the units transferred (bts, bitUSD etc)

You're positive it requires $0.1 to pay for the cost of security per transaction? Interesting....

I'm not thinking so much tips so much as permanent streams of income in a micropayment channel. So large quantities of micropayments should equate to some decent amount of revenue.

So it seems that the current Bitshares 2.0 chain that is handling all the financial aspects is beyond brilliant, the code is beautiful, the functionality is going to be amazing. The only thing that it inherently cannot handle is micropayments. Combined with the recent licensing this creates a problem for people who love the technological capabilities of bitshares but who need to have low fees in order for their applications to work. So it got me thinking. Why doesn't cryptonomex just release a second chain that is fully geared towards micropayments and allow us to build our ecosystem out of there? It would seem that the work would not double, it would merely be changing a couple files in the codebase, (one of those files being the one where people are fiddling with the "fee dials" so to speak) and the devs could go ahead and keep a large chunk of the incoming fees to maintain the engine that makes this entire system work. From there, you can create full integration of trade between the micropayments channel and the BTS channel, and even make it so that you can charge high fees on the micropayments channel. Micropayments are a huge segment of what cryptocurrency is trying to accomplish. While I'm all for shrinking the scope of a project to focus and get more actual work done, I do think it would be short sighted to not bring this area of the industry into our own as there are so many markets that could open up for these services in the coming years. Could call it MicroBTS for the currency....

Idk, what do you guys think? Idea just came to me...it could be a good way to solve this issue.

Quote from: VoR0220 on July 06, 2015, 01:09:11 pm

Quote from: xeroc on July 06, 2015, 01:07:25 pm

Quote from: VoR0220 on July 06, 2015, 01:04:20 pm

Fonds? Is that a typo for bonds? Or am I missing something?

My fault .. bad translation .. I was refering to "investment funds" .. like a "set of different stocks"

Okay so like a basket of goods and options?

commodity like
- bitGOLD
- bitSILVER

stock like:
- NASDAQ
- NIKKEI

Fundraisers (now possible) like
- MOONFUND

emerging industries (possible with bts via sharedrop) like
- NOTE

but also currencies like
- bitUSD
- bitCNY
...

all put together into one basket/account (multisig)
and publicly auditable via blockchain ...

you can then issue shares of that basket and sell them as investment into whatever is in the basket ..

imho this could be sold as game changer .. (only if enough liquidity and options are available)

And I would agree with you Xeroc. This is a good marketing approach.

Quote from: newmine on July 02, 2015, 07:12:21 pm

Quote from: bytemaster on July 02, 2015, 04:45:52 pm

Newmine, how much would BTS benefit if a competitor stole the "free" code?   

compromising the future of the entire project by making the software proprietary in some way.

Yes, absolutely, in a way that makes it silly to reinvent the public smartchain but profitable to build apps and merge with it.

The death of the bitcoin clones has proven that you don't need many different blockchains in crypto, only as many as you have the basic political faction:

1. Bitcoin - a simple streamlined store of value for the masses
2. Ripple - the private sector's next generation crypto solution proposed by the villians
3. Dopecoin - a simple streamlined store of value for the youth
4. Darkcoin - a simple streamlined store of value for the heroes
5. BitShares - the public sector's next generation crypto solution proposed by the scientists & philosophers

and from there, you have your smaller factions.  Crypto is art imitating human political life.

I like your assessment. Now tell me. Where is Ethereum, MaidSAFE, and Shadowcoin in all of this mess?

I'm also wondering if it's at all possible for an SPV-like function in the future?

I love Rust but if you look into the actual speed tests, then C++ is still just a wee bit faster. Still. No memory leaks and a compiler that doesn't give you two pages of errors is wonderful.

David Cameron is all bark and no bite...no way he gets that shit through parliament. And even if he does....it's encryption! You can't stop it anymore than you can stop math! You can only hope to break it.

Another idea I have (and have been having) is that Bitshares provides the perfect platform to integrate sidechains with in terms of tracking value at a certain point and time....another area I see them violently agreeing on is that Ripple is a bastardization of crypto....maybe.